I think this question should be divided into two parts. First, converting most recent HO scale locomotives to DCC control should not be too difficult given the array of decoders available. There is lots of information on the internet regarding what decoders to use for what engines, and lots of examples of how to go about the procedure. Many are simply 'drop in' so there is almost no electronic expertize required. (Just a brave heart to try it the first time!) Older locos or brass models are an entirely different story. There are lots of inexpensive DCC decoders available.
The second part of the question is how easy is it to convert a given loco to dcc WITH SOUND! If the loco is very recent there may already be places to mount the speaker(s) but if it is not designed for sound then getting the speaker(s) in place can be a challenge especially in diesels. Often some milling of the weights may be required or some very creative positions for the speaker will have to be found. I converted a P2K S3 switcher by mounting the speaker in the roof of the cab. It sits right on top of the engineer's head but since the speaker enclosure is black it really is not too obvious. However, when I look at the cost of the sound decoder and the engine together, I could have purchased a sound equipped engine for about the same price. My logic was that I already had the engine so what the heck. Others might want to get rid of the old engine on E-Bay and start with a new engine with everything installed nice and pretty. OTOH when I converted my first steam engine (OK - it was Hogwart's Express that my wife gave me as a lark) there was lots of space in the tender for the speaker and the decoder and I even managed to hook up headlights!) I guess the thing is to do your homework first. Draw up a list of locomotives that you want (by manufacturer) and see what decoders are out there to convert them, what features they have and how much they will cost. Look at what the same unit would cost with DCC installed. Then go searching your local shows and hobby shops and E-Bay for the cheaper non-dcc locos. The rest is simple math, although I wouldn't discount the fun factor involved in putting sound in your own locos and actually having them work!
Go for it!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Bachmann makes some great DCC OnBoard locos. They even make DCC Sound Onboard Locos.
The DCC OnBoard locos are relatively inexpensive, around $50 per for diesels and control lighting, direction and and speed. SOme steamers are around $100. The DCC SOund OnBoard do run more money for both steam and diesels, but still can be a bargain compared to some locos with sound. Bachmann makes a DCC OnBoard [no sound] 2-8-0 consolidation and an 0-6-0 in steam. The steamers in DCC SOund OnBoard are larger models.
I have several DCC ONBoard locos and haven't had a problem with them in 4 years since I got back into the hobby and decided DCC was the way to go. I imagine the DCC Sound OnBoard should work just as well, but I am not really enthralled by sound at all, so I have no need for it. I have a very tight budget as I am on disability, so every dollar has to count.
I agree with what has been said that the price of a ready-made sound equipped loco is at the same price or cheaper than buying a DC loco and converting it to Sound DCC yourself. Also, as you mentioned, many older locos are harder to convert as you have to isolate the motor and carve out weight chunks to make space to install a decoder. SOund is even more difficult as you have to also add a speaker somewhere in there and have a speaker surround housing for the speaker. Steamers can be somewhat easier as the speaker can be located in the tender, if you drill holes for a speaker grill to allow the sound to get out.
I am not adept at electronics, so self-install is not an option for me, as I can fry a bread toaster simply plugging it in. If you are more adept at it you could try your hand at it and see what you think. If it works for you, then by all means go for it IF you find the price is cheaper for the loco and decoder and sound speaker and housing than you can find for a ready-made one. I would do as suggested and ask here on the forum aobut a particular brand/loco style you are considering changing over and see who has converted and what all they had to go through to do so before you buy it. If you are adept at it, this may be your only option for getting certain locos you want until someone comes out with a sound-equipped version again.
The only other option is to do what I do: save your pennies an make your selection carefully when you buy and buy ready-made DCC Sound equipped locos... and be sure to ask Santa every Christmas!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
richg1998 If anyone tries to tell you it is easy to install DCC, they have experience and have done it before. Take, “easy” with a grain of salt. It can be a challenge for some just to remove the shell of a loco.
If anyone tries to tell you it is easy to install DCC, they have experience and have done it before. Take, “easy” with a grain of salt. It can be a challenge for some just to remove the shell of a loco.
While all of Rich's points are valid, I think this is the most important -- what is "easy" for one person (electronics wiring, scenery, tracklaying, whatever) might not come as easily to the rest of us...
On the same token though, once you get a little practice in anything it becomes easy. Personally, I'm starting with the "not easy" ( Adding DCC to an old locomotive with a pittman-style DC motor; hand-laying C55 rail) just for the challenge... and because I don't like being bound to run into situations where I could really use <insert non-standard track geometry here> to make something really work.
Eventually, I intend to take the skills learned in these pursiuts and scratchbuild some (all?) of my locomotive fleet
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
One of the other problems can be older style motor's in used engines. Today engines draw around .5 amps, maybe 1 when a engine is pulling a big train. Some of the older Athearn Blue Box engines will pull 1.5 amps and up. Decoders will not handle that kind of power and will burn out.
If you are looking for affordable engines, look at Proto 1000's and 2000's. The Monon F'3 that you saw running while you where over where Proto 1000's. I picked up 2 powered engines for $70.00.
I hate Rust
Consider asking here about a particular loco, first. Good chance there will be suggestions about DCC or DCCC sound suggestions and good sources.
A fair amount of users have bought first or tried to install DCC first and then came here trying to solve issues that might have been prevented.
A fair amount of locos that are DCCC ready are not always Plug & Play. There are Gotchas for some. Again, asking first may keep you out of trouble.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Generally, all engines made after about 2000 are pretty easy to convert, they usually have some soft of "plug and play" receptacle so you can just remove a dummy plug and plug in a decoder.
Most engines made in the 1990's have isolated motors so it's just a matter of doing a "drop-in" installation - replacing the factory lightboard with a DCC decoder shaped like the lightboard.
Once you do a few installations, you'll see how easy it is. Start with "plug and play" engines, then learn how to set CVs. I recommend TCS decoders because their instructions are so clear for setting up the engine.
You can convert an engine to DCC and then later add a sound decoder on top of the DCC decoder, but today there are so many good combined sound-and-motion decoders that it would probably make sense to do sound right away...although I agree that factory sound is great, especially in a small engine where it can be hard to find room. It's especially important with steam, because some companies (like BLI) had steam engines with built-in cams so the chuffs are timed to the engine. Tsunami sound (like in Spectrum engines) can be adjusted with CV's to be pretty close but it's not as exact.
slammin As was stated earlier, it is usually cheaper to buy a factory sound equipped engine. A good sound decoder, QSI, Tsumani, Loc sound, will run between $80.00 and $110.00, plus the cost of a speaker and enclosure. Most sound engines can be purchased for an additional $100.00 over the price of a non-sound unit. Shop around, there are bargains out there.
As was stated earlier, it is usually cheaper to buy a factory sound equipped engine. A good sound decoder, QSI, Tsumani, Loc sound, will run between $80.00 and $110.00, plus the cost of a speaker and enclosure. Most sound engines can be purchased for an additional $100.00 over the price of a non-sound unit. Shop around, there are bargains out there.
That's my experience, too. I've gone both ways, but right now it does seem to be cheaper to get the engine with the decoder and speakers already installed, and you don't have to do the work, either.
Try Trainworld (www.trainworldonline.com) or M.B. Klein (www.modeltrainstuff.com) and look around for bargain-priced locomotives. Most of their stuff is well below MSRP. They both feature older models that have been discontinued at Walthers. They are both reputable dealers.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I personally agree with this advice. I've converted five older P2K and P1K locos to sound using this basic idea.
As mentioned, there are deals out there - I bought those five sound locos for between $100 and $139 each. In my case, the road name doesn't matter, all I want is the sound chassis.
Then, I swapped the sound chassis into my older loco with the "right" roadname, and put the old chassis under the "wrong" roadname. So now I have the roadnames I want with sound.
Finally, I sell off those "old chassis/new shell" locos to recoup some of my cost.
The end result is factory sound for usually less than the price of a good sound decoder alone, let alone a speaker, enclosure, and the time/effort to try to cram it into a chassis/shell that was never designed to accept it.
A good idea of decoder installs can be had by looking at the TCS web site. They have install pictures for many types of locos in multiple scales. You can use any brand of decoder but use their photos as a general guideline on how to go about doign the install., They cover everything from simple plugin ones to ones you have to rewire half the loco. Check the loco you plan to buy there and get an idea of how difficult it will be to install a decoder - given enough time, skill, and money, you can install a decoder in ANYTHING.
http://www.tcsdcc.com/
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Most new locos are DCC ready and if they are not, I would venture to say they are probably not worth having. Most of them it is either plug and play or a quick swap of the board with a DCC board. If you do a google search you will find out how to convert an older loco. I have not done it but I think it is not much more just isolating the board for the frame. And as for sound the advice I have given when I started was it is often cheaper to upgrade a DCC ready loco to DCC but if it is sound, it can be cheaper and will be a lot easier to just buy a sound equipped loco.
OK. I have about 45' of ho track laid so far (I have a lot more to go but I need to see some trains running now) . I have my dcc system and one dcc locomotive. Now I am looking at all the locos out there for sale that are not listed as DCC or DCC ready. How does one know if a particular engine can be converted to DCC before actually purchasing it? Also, if you have an engine with DCC how do you find out if you can add sound? The prices of most engines with DCC and Sound is out of my reach. But if I could acquire the engines and then put in the DCC and the sound myself I figure that might be a cheaper way to go. Also, a lot of the engines I would like are available in DC but not in DCC. Looking at early diesel (1949 and prior) and steam in the 0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0 and maybe a little larger.
I remember that I have read that some of the older engines that are available (ebay, garage sales, etc) are hard to convert. But can I assume that if an engine was just recently manufactured, I will be able to find the decoder I need and possible the sound unit for that engine?
So I realize that this is not a very well defined question, but I would appreciate any guidance (general or specific) that anyone wants to offer.
I would be lost without this forum. Actually, I'm still pretty lost, but there's hope.
wdcrvr