I realize that everybody has their "favorite" DCC throttle, so I am not asking for personal suggestions. I'm pretty much down to deciding between Digitrax or NCE. What I would like is a referral to facts on the positives and negatives of each of the two family of systems. I feel I'm pretty much electronically savvy and want to automate my new layout so I can run against a computer programmed schedule, complete with macros to route other trains. I enjoy operating with other friends but often find myself on the rails by myself. Thanks for any links or referrals.
Capt. BriggPacific Cascade Ry.
Capt. Brigg FranklinUSCG Licensed Marine OfficerCertified crazy train chaserCEO: Pacific Cascade Railway
Digitrax Pros: 2 throttles in one
Digitrax Cons: smaller buttons
NCE Pros: Bigger display and buttons
NCE Cons: Bigger overall throttle
If you really plan to do all the computer interface stuff, and detection, and signalling, this is where Digitrax has it over all the others. The Loconet bus does it all, one bus for detection, signalling, throttles, and booster connections. A computer interface on Loconet can 'see' what each throttle is doing as well as messages from connected devices like sensors. There are more thrid party products for Loconet than any others - both commercial products from companies like Team Digital, RR-CirKits, CML, and Logic Rail Technologies, as well as DIY stuff from people like Hans DeLoof. You can build a fully detected and signalled railroad and not use a single Digitrax product for that, although they do have some nice ones. Number one reason I went with Digitrax is the Loconet bus.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have no experience with any other throttle than the DT400 original version, which I feel Randy is talking about. I would characterize it as a "busy" throttle, and yes, it has small buttons, and I do need to look.
That aside, I can't imagine using any other throttle that has only a single application at a time. The twin encoder knobs are simply a joy to have at one's finger tips.
Crandell
I use, and love, the Digitrax DT-402D. I really like the two train capability. I also like the UT-4D with it's large knob and limited buttons and capability that I am able to hand to my 3 year old grandson so he can run Thomas all by himself.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I also love my Digitrax DT400's. However, I don't consider the smaller buttons to be a "con". I personally feel Digitrax hit it perfectly between size and functionality.
The large NCE throttles, to me, are too large to the point of being awkward (even though I have somewhat large hands). And the large buttons are part of what contributes to that large over-all size.
Also, as Randy said, for layout control and automation Digitrax's LocoNet simply can't be beat. It is reliable, expandable, and it gives you access to ALL the command bus traffic. In contrast, the serial connection on the NCE command station doesn't echo throttle commands, so there's no way to have your automation act on them. And the NCE USB interface has it's own set of limitations.
rrinker If you really plan to do all the computer interface stuff, and detection, and signalling, this is where Digitrax has it over all the others. The Loconet bus does it all, one bus for detection, signalling, throttles, and booster connections. A computer interface on Loconet can 'see' what each throttle is doing as well as messages from connected devices like sensors. There are more thrid party products for Loconet than any others - both commercial products from companies like Team Digital, RR-CirKits, CML, and Logic Rail Technologies, as well as DIY stuff from people like Hans DeLoof. You can build a fully detected and signalled railroad and not use a single Digitrax product for that, although they do have some nice ones. Number one reason I went with Digitrax is the Loconet bus. --Randy
Randy: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that it is necessary to have any particular brand of DCC system to have a loconet-type bus. In fact, RR-CirKits on their website shows how to come up with one rather simply, and also appears to allow the computer interface that the OP mentions.
You can build a seperate Loconet, yes. But this takes away one advantage of only having to run a single bus for everything - now you need a throttle bus for the other brand system, possible a booster bus unless you group all boosters in one spot (NCE and Lenz do not use the same bus for cabs and boosters) plus the Loconet for the signalling and detection.
maxmanRandy: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that it is necessary to have any particular brand of DCC system to have a loconet-type bus. In fact, RR-CirKits on their website shows how to come up with one rather simply, and also appears to allow the computer interface that the OP mentions.
In addition to Randy's reply, having a separate LocoNet still doesn't change that certain traffic isn't passed by either of the NCE interface types (throttle commands from the PH Pro's serial interface probably being the most conspicuously missing). Since the OP specifically mentioned layout automation, that could certainly be a consideration. Why go with a cobbled together, complex, partial solution when a fully integrated, more simple, and complete one is available?
I've use all of the throttles from the major systems used in the U.S. I have to say that the smaller, more closely spaced buttons on the DT400 series make it far more easier to use than all the others. The large NCE throtlle requires reaching all over the place to select a button, and of course you have to look for them to find them. The compact DT400 arrangement gives it a huge advantage in my opinion.
At one time I was running dual systems, NCE and Digitrax. I had to force myself to pick up the NCE throttle, and I could hardly wait to but it down and go back to the DT400. I love this throttle as it makes running my trains a real pleasure. I'm using the duplex radio version and it's terrific.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Sometimes pictures help:
As others have said, NCE throttles (like the one pictured above) are slightly larger in size and they do come with larger buttons. The buttons also come in a variety of size and shapes and are arranged and grouped as a visual aid to the user. Larger buttons are primarily for more frequently used functions; smaller buttons for lesser used functions.
The DT400R throttle above uses the same size buttons but use a colored grid and symbols to differentiate them from one another. For me, I don't find them as intuitive as the NCE throttles but it works well. I do, however, like the dual knobs of the DT400s for conveniently controlling two locomotives. That's a VERY nice feature and I find it sometimes easier to use than the RECALL button of the NCE throttles.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I am electronically savy also. I love my NCE throttles because they are intuitive. You press a button to do something and it asks you for a value and gives you a prompt. I read the instructions twice and I was ready to go.
As for computer control, you can still use some Digitrax products for signals and detection and you do not need to buy a second booster for it, but you do need to set up another cab type bus for the LocoNet. I should know because I have done it. If you want detailed instructions, go to my web page to download the information. The URL is in my signature section below.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Thank you for all the good input. Because of the computer interface advantages I've decided to go with the Digitrax system. Since I'm just designing a new layout, I'm starting out small with the Zephyr, DCS50, which I can always use later on my staging tracks. My next question is, can I use a variety of decoders in my engines with the Digitrax system?
Any decoder that is sold as a "DCC" decoder should be managed easily by any of the systems sold by the various manufacturers of DCC systems. There is one dated exception made by Bachmann that I won't bother to name, but it's initials are EZ Command. It is a DCC operating system, but it was not engineered to allow the operator to manipulate all the CV's in a typical decoder. You can run trains, but you can't configure all the usual CV's such as for inertia and momentum. You'll need a separate programmer for that.
Your new Digitrax system will operate decoders made by TCS, Lenz, QSI, MRC, LokSound, Sountraxx, and I believe even Digitrax has a few sound decoders.
Capt. Brigg Thank you for all the good input. Because of the computer interface advantages I've decided to go with the Digitrax system. Since I'm just designing a new layout, I'm starting out small with the Zephyr, DCS50, which I can always use later on my staging tracks. My next question is, can I use a variety of decoders in my engines with the Digitrax system?
i wouldn't get the DCS50 zephyr as the DCS51 upgraded zephyr is now in the shops allegedly. get the 51 if you want a zephyr, the extra few bucks is worth it. that said maybe the 50 can be had a lot cheaper now??
A couple weeks ago at the Timonium train show there was one vendor blowing out the original Zephyr for like $125. Hard to pass up even with the 20 loco capacity of the Xtra.
At any rate, even the original Zephyr may suit well past the 'beginner' stage. My layout is in a 9x15 room and my Zephyr is still the command station - I don;t ever plan to be running 10 locos at a time. I did add a DB150 booster to power the tracks, the Zephyr's track output now runs all my stationary decoders for turnout control. I know of at least one person who has a physically larger PLUS double deck - in N scale - layout that uses the Zephyr still. He doesn't run with a large operating crew, and doesn't run more than a couple of locos at a time, so the Zephyr is more than capable.
As for what decoders to use - any brand will work. I've sort of standardized on TCS as they are not horirble expensive and they have a wide range of sizes to fit many different locos. I did just get back some more of my older stuff and some have Digitrax and NCE decoders, a couple have older TCS decoders before they had BEMF in them. All work fine - until the two with Digitrax decoeders came back I had zero Digitrax decoders on my layout.