I need to run some fairly long lengths of wire to connect a pair of Tortoises that are 50 feet apart because of the design of the layout. This pair of Tortoises will also be controlled by two DPDT switches at two different locations on control panels, about 40 feet apart.
I can buy 100 foot rolls of 26 gauge, 4-conductor wire at Radio Shack at a fairly economical price.
Is 26 gauge stranded wire a large enough gauge to do what I want to do?
Rich
Alton Junction
It should work fine if you are running at 12 volts. Probably even as low as 9.
How are you planning on wiring the switches to prevent a short?
Springfield PA
You can't use two separate DPDT switches to control a Tortoise. If they are thrown in opposite directions you will have a dead short.
Edit:
Actually, as I draw it out in my head, I might be wrong. It might be doable.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
With the low curent draw of a couple of tortoises, 26 gauge will be fine, even for that kind of distance. You certainly can control them with two DPDT switches. You have to wire the power through one switch and then through the other(they have to be in series, not parallel), and the switches will not match the turnout direction.
Yes, that is what I was picturing in my afterthought. That is why I edited it.
Telephone type wire is plenty - Tortoises only draw about 15ma max, so no need for heavy wire. One option I've seen actually connects an RJ45 8-pin jack to the Tortoise (solder at the bench before installing the Tortoise) and then you can use RJ45 plugs and either flat or round wire to connect them - with all 8 pins it brings out the motor leads plus both sets of contacts, no soldering under the bench.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
CSX Robert With the low curent draw of a couple of tortoises, 26 gauge will be fine, even for that kind of distance. You certainly can control them with two DPDT switches. You have to wire the power through one switch and then through the other(they have to be in series, not parallel), and the switches will not match the turnout direction.
I'm not picturing it at the moment. Too lazy to draw it out. I do know it's a piece of cake with 2 SPDT switches with a relay controlling the torti. You just wire it as a 3 way.
So I figured I wouldn't sleep unless I drew it out and yes it does work.
Power supply to the normally closed set of the first switch, then criss crossed onto the normally open set. Out of the Common set of the first switch and feed into the normally closed set of the second switch. Criss cross to the normally open set, Then out of the common of the second switch to the torti.
Edit: Never mind, I see you figured it out.
Thanks everyone,
It sounds like I can do quite nicely with the 26 gauge wire.
Sorry to create the stir over whether you can use two DPDT switches to control a pair of Tortoises. I have done it before on my layout. Here is my recent write up on this forum in response to another member's question about how to do it.
In a single DPDT setup, an X pattern would be formed by wiring from the top left to the bottom right contacts on the DPDT, and another wire from the top right to the bottom left contacts on the DPDT. The top two contacts are also wired to the DC power source and the center two contacts are wired to the Tortoise.
In a two DPDT setup, to control the operation of the Tortoise from two different locations, the X pattern on each DPDT remains the same. The center contacts of one Tortoise are still wired to the Tortoise. On the DPDT that is wired to the Tortoise, the top two contacts are wired to the center contacts of the second DPDT and the top two contacts of the second DPDT are wired to the DC power source.
The reason that I want to do this, and the reason for the long lengths of wire required to do it, is that I am building a lift out section that will cross an aisle in my P-shaped layout. The track on the lift out section will actually be a reversing section, so I want to be able to throw a single switch to control both turnouts, on at each end of the reversing section. Moreover, I need to be able to control the turnouts from two different locations. That is why I need to install two DPDT switches.
Here is a diagram of my setup. The gray portions of the diagram represent my layout surface. The heavy black line is the reversing section of track on the lift out section that will span the aisle. The black squares represent the DPDT switches mounted on control panels. The black circles represent the Tortoises that will control the turnouts at each end of the reversing section. I have used three different colors of wire necessary to complete the circuit. For simplification, I have only shown three wires, but of course, six wires will be required since pairs of wires are needed for each connection.
The actual lift out section is only 4 feet long but the wiring for the Tortoises and DPDT switches will need to take a longer circuitous route because I don't want to wire across the lift out section.
rrinker Telephone type wire is plenty - Tortoises only draw about 15ma max, so no need for heavy wire. One option I've seen actually connects an RJ45 8-pin jack to the Tortoise (solder at the bench before installing the Tortoise) and then you can use RJ45 plugs and either flat or round wire to connect them - with all 8 pins it brings out the motor leads plus both sets of contacts, no soldering under the bench. --Randy
The part of the Tortoise where the wires go is actually a circuit board with 8 edge connectors. My LHS has the matching female part that slips on to it. So, I just wire up the connector topside, and then crawl under the layout and fit it in place. And, if the Tortoise throws the wrong way, I can reverse the wiring just by turning the connector around.
I run my Tortoises at 9 volts. For the long run you're planning, though, I would use 12 volts, particularly with telephone wire. You are going to see some voltage drop by the time you get to the end of the run, but if you start at 12 volts you'll still have plenty by the time you get there.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley rrinker: Telephone type wire is plenty - Tortoises only draw about 15ma max, so no need for heavy wire. One option I've seen actually connects an RJ45 8-pin jack to the Tortoise (solder at the bench before installing the Tortoise) and then you can use RJ45 plugs and either flat or round wire to connect them - with all 8 pins it brings out the motor leads plus both sets of contacts, no soldering under the bench. --Randy The part of the Tortoise where the wires go is actually a circuit board with 8 edge connectors. My LHS has the matching female part that slips on to it. So, I just wire up the connector topside, and then crawl under the layout and fit it in place. And, if the Tortoise throws the wrong way, I can reverse the wiring just by turning the connector around. I run my Tortoises at 9 volts. For the long run you're planning, though, I would use 12 volts, particularly with telephone wire. You are going to see some voltage drop by the time you get to the end of the run, but if you start at 12 volts you'll still have plenty by the time you get there.
rrinker: Telephone type wire is plenty - Tortoises only draw about 15ma max, so no need for heavy wire. One option I've seen actually connects an RJ45 8-pin jack to the Tortoise (solder at the bench before installing the Tortoise) and then you can use RJ45 plugs and either flat or round wire to connect them - with all 8 pins it brings out the motor leads plus both sets of contacts, no soldering under the bench. --Randy
I will be using a 12 volt DC transformer, MRC RailKing 1370.
Mister Beasley, just out of curiosity, you mention that you crawl under the layout and fit the Tortoise in place. Obviously, that is also what I do, but only after drilling a 5/8 inch hole through the 1/2 inch plywood surface of the layout to accomodate the Tortoise wire that moves the throwbar on the turnout. How do you mount your Tortoise machines?
Yeah, I just don't trust those edge connectors, since it's not a 'normal' size they almost always are 10 pin ones cut down, or with a stop in them. I've seen others with Molex pins on them - now every Tortoise I've seen does NOT have the holes drilled evenly, they are staggared from contract to contact. I suppose you could just drill them out yourself. That's yet another alternative and would make for a totally secure connection. All I ever really did with mine was to connect an 8 pin screw terminal block to them before mounting.
richhotrain Mister Beasley, just out of curiosity, you mention that you crawl under the layout and fit the Tortoise in place. Obviously, that is also what I do, but only after drilling a 5/8 inch hole through the 1/2 inch plywood surface of the layout to accomodate the Tortoise wire that moves the throwbar on the turnout. How do you mount your Tortoise machines? Rich
My layout is foam-based, with no plywood. So, I used a small piece of scrap plywood to mount the Tortoise, and glued that to the underside of the foam. We were just discussing this on the layout forum:
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/182558.aspx
I don't pretend to be an expert on this. I only installed my first Tortoises a couple of months back. I used white glue to hold the plywood to the foam. So far, so good, but it has not yet withstood the test of time.
MisterBeasley richhotrain: Mister Beasley, just out of curiosity, you mention that you crawl under the layout and fit the Tortoise in place. Obviously, that is also what I do, but only after drilling a 5/8 inch hole through the 1/2 inch plywood surface of the layout to accomodate the Tortoise wire that moves the throwbar on the turnout. How do you mount your Tortoise machines? Rich My layout is foam-based, with no plywood. So, I used a small piece of scrap plywood to mount the Tortoise, and glued that to the underside of the foam. We were just discussing this on the layout forum: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/182558.aspx I don't pretend to be an expert on this. I only installed my first Tortoises a couple of months back. I used white glue to hold the plywood to the foam. So far, so good, but it has not yet withstood the test of time.
richhotrain: Mister Beasley, just out of curiosity, you mention that you crawl under the layout and fit the Tortoise in place. Obviously, that is also what I do, but only after drilling a 5/8 inch hole through the 1/2 inch plywood surface of the layout to accomodate the Tortoise wire that moves the throwbar on the turnout. How do you mount your Tortoise machines? Rich
Mister Beasley,
The reason that I ask is because I used to require a 2-person operation to mount the Tortoise, one above to center and hold the throwbar and one below to screw in the Tortoise to the underside of the plywood. Now, however, I have perfected a technique in which I wedge a couple of strips of styrene between the point rails and the stock rails to hold the throwbar securely in the center. Then, I go underneath the layout and mark the screw positions with a pencil, drill the pilot holes for the screws, and then screw the Tortoise to the underside of the plywood.
How do you manage to properly align the Tortoise to the underside of the foam before gluing the plywood scrap to the foam board?
I should have visited your link first before asking how you mount the Tortoise on foam board. Now, I understand.
On my old foam-only layout I actually put them in fromt he top - see the Old Stuff part of my web site. I'm using servos now, but they attach the same way as a Tortoise - what I to is use a pair of forceps to grab the wire after I get it up through the throwbar so I can go underneath and align the machine without it falling down. The servo mounts have a piece of double sided tape included, which is enough to hold it in place for a few minutes - you cna do the same with a Tortoise. A friend of mine actually puts small pieces of velcro on his instead of double sided tape, so you cna take all the time in the world to line things up and even test run it, and only when you're totally sure it's positioned correctly, run the screws in.
I use a method that is quick and works great. I too use styrene to center the point rails. I then install the torti wire upside down so it hangs below the layout. I then center the torti arm and eye ball it with the hanging wire. Use a marker to trace the torti while centered. I then use a hot glue gun to mount the torti. Just smear a large bead on the base and push it against the board inside the trace made earlier.
After a little practice it takes about 15 minutes total for each one.
richhotrain MisterBeasley: rrinker: Telephone type wire is plenty - Tortoises only draw about 15ma max, so no need for heavy wire. One option I've seen actually connects an RJ45 8-pin jack to the Tortoise (solder at the bench before installing the Tortoise) and then you can use RJ45 plugs and either flat or round wire to connect them - with all 8 pins it brings out the motor leads plus both sets of contacts, no soldering under the bench. --Randy The part of the Tortoise where the wires go is actually a circuit board with 8 edge connectors. My LHS has the matching female part that slips on to it. So, I just wire up the connector topside, and then crawl under the layout and fit it in place. And, if the Tortoise throws the wrong way, I can reverse the wiring just by turning the connector around. I run my Tortoises at 9 volts. For the long run you're planning, though, I would use 12 volts, particularly with telephone wire. You are going to see some voltage drop by the time you get to the end of the run, but if you start at 12 volts you'll still have plenty by the time you get there. I will be using a 12 volt DC transformer, MRC RailKing 1370. Rich
MisterBeasley: rrinker: Telephone type wire is plenty - Tortoises only draw about 15ma max, so no need for heavy wire. One option I've seen actually connects an RJ45 8-pin jack to the Tortoise (solder at the bench before installing the Tortoise) and then you can use RJ45 plugs and either flat or round wire to connect them - with all 8 pins it brings out the motor leads plus both sets of contacts, no soldering under the bench. --Randy The part of the Tortoise where the wires go is actually a circuit board with 8 edge connectors. My LHS has the matching female part that slips on to it. So, I just wire up the connector topside, and then crawl under the layout and fit it in place. And, if the Tortoise throws the wrong way, I can reverse the wiring just by turning the connector around. I run my Tortoises at 9 volts. For the long run you're planning, though, I would use 12 volts, particularly with telephone wire. You are going to see some voltage drop by the time you get to the end of the run, but if you start at 12 volts you'll still have plenty by the time you get there.
rrinker: Telephone type wire is plenty - Tortoises only draw about 15ma max, so no need for heavy wire. One option I've seen actually connects an RJ45 8-pin jack to the Tortoise (solder at the bench before installing the Tortoise) and then you can use RJ45 plugs and either flat or round wire to connect them - with all 8 pins it brings out the motor leads plus both sets of contacts, no soldering under the bench. --Randy The part of the Tortoise where the wires go is actually a circuit board with 8 edge connectors. My LHS has the matching female part that slips on to it. So, I just wire up the connector topside, and then crawl under the layout and fit it in place. And, if the Tortoise throws the wrong way, I can reverse the wiring just by turning the connector around.
For what it's worth, I need to correct something that I said in this reply.
I meant to say that I will be using an MRC Railpower 1370. The RailKing is an MTH product.
Sorry if i confused anyone.