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ar 1 problems

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  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 26, 2010 7:32 AM

Hey, bnsf0823, did you fix the glitch?  Bang Head

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Friday, October 22, 2010 7:11 AM

Go to Harbor Freight and get a $2.99 meter.  Trusting your eyes to tell you what's going on isn't working.

Could you have the input and output side or the AR-1 crossed?

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:14 PM

It sounds to me like you still have the main buss connected to the reversing section.

When the AR1 aligns the polarity one way it matches then main, so it works fine.  When it reverses it, it is a dead short.

You MUST not have the main buss connected to the reversing section, either with wires, or by an ungapped rail.  You must gap both rails every place where track connects to the main section.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:59 PM

[quote user="bnsf0823"]

richhotrain

bnsf0823,

Where are you?

What happened?

Rich

 

i live in lincoln ne or near lincoln any way.  i hooked up the ar1 just as you all have said to it was accually pretty simple.  I ran a train coming off the reversing loop from both directions, when i did that one way i would hear a click and the train would continue but the other way would cause a short.  Could this be an adjustment issue on the ar1 or does it sound like the ar1 is not working properly?  Shouldnt the train only set off the ar1 from one direction not both?  Thanks for all your help if you have anymore ideas they would be appreciated.

LOL, when I asked "Where are you", I just meant that we hadn't heard from you.

If the AR-1 worked in the one direction, then no adjustment needs to be made and it sounds like the AR-1 is working just fine.  However, it does sound like you have a wiring problem on the other side of the reversing section since it is still shorting there.  Any chance you could post a drawing of your layout?  Could you have another reverse loop somewhere on the layout?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by bnsf0823 on Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:39 PM

[quote user="richhotrain"]

bnsf0823,

Where are you?

What happened?

Rich

 

i live in lincoln ne or near lincoln any way.  i hooked up the ar1 just as you all have said to it was accually pretty simple.  I ran a train coming off the reversing loop from both directions, when i did that one way i would hear a click and the train would continue but the other way would cause a short.  Could this be an adjustment issue on the ar1 or does it sound like the ar1 is not working properly?  Shouldnt the train only set off the ar1 from one direction not both?  Thanks for all your help if you have anymore ideas they would be appreciated.

  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, October 21, 2010 7:00 AM

bnsf0823,

Where are you?

What happened?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by THE.RR on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 4:28 PM

If the whole deck is a LARGE reversing loop, you may want to put the AR1 on just a train length of track, and wire the rest to the regular buss.

Phil

Timber Head Eastern Railroad "THE Railroad Through the Sierras"

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:56 PM

DigitalGriffin

If you do have your layout wired similar to the diagram above and are STILL getting booster tripping problems:

 

Try turning the adjustment screw on the AR-1 counter clockwise.  This reduces the trip current before the AR-1 switches the phase.  Your AR-1 manual will tell you how to do this.  Your Zephyr doesn't support very much current before it trips.

 

Ahhh, good point DG.

Alton Junction

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:41 AM

If you do have your layout wired similar to the diagram above and are STILL getting booster tripping problems:

 

Try turning the adjustment screw on the AR-1 counter clockwise.  This reduces the trip current before the AR-1 switches the phase.  Your AR-1 manual will tell you how to do this.  Your Zephyr doesn't support very much current before it trips.

 

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 5:36 PM

cacole

Connect the bus wires for the upper level to the AR-1's output terminals, and connect the AR-1's input terminals to the lower level's bus wires. 

And make sure you have insulated rail joiners in both rails somewhere between the upper and lower levels.

The AR-1 must supply all the power to the upper level reverse loop.

I really don't know how much clearer we can make it for you.

If you fill out your user profile indicating where you live, perhaps someone here lives close to you who can help.

cacole has said it best.  Here is a drawing of what he is saying.  Just make sure that the upper level tracks are gapped on either hand to isolate the upper level as a reversing section.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by Eric97123 on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 5:29 PM

I will try to explaining it step by step.

There should be two screw holes for power in to the AR-1 and two out that connect the track in the reverse section.  Refer in the instructions on which set of holes is for which.. also follow the diagram closely, it will not steer you wrong.

You need to isolate the reverse section.. You can use plastic rail joiners that are made for that as they have a little plastic piece that sticks up to create that grap. 

So what I did was from the main track was - track, plastic rail joiner to smaller piece of track, then the feeder joiners I use with will be connected the AR-1, rest of the track in the loop then plastic rail joiner. 

The rail joiner should work right out of the box but if it does not, there is an ajusting screw for adjusting the sensitivity for it reverse the track.  I had no trouble with mine until I about a sound equiped loco and it took just a small adjustment to fix that issues. 

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Posted by cacole on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 5:05 PM

Connect the bus wires for the upper level to the AR-1's output terminals, and connect the AR-1's input terminals to the lower level's bus wires. 

And make sure you have insulated rail joiners in both rails somewhere between the upper and lower levels.

The AR-1 must supply all the power to the upper level reverse loop.

I really don't know how much clearer we can make it for you.

If you fill out your user profile indicating where you live, perhaps someone here lives close to you who can help.

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Posted by bnsf0823 on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 4:47 PM

I understand what you are saying about the bus wires being hooked up to the track by all the feeders.  That is exactly how my layout is i have feeders every 13-15 feet along my upperlevel.  So all i need to do is connect the bus wires to the ar1 or do i have to unsolder all of my connections to the tracks?  Or create another bus line for the ar1 which seems kind of redundent to me but i am not very knologable about the wiring part of a layout.  Thank you for all your help i just need a little more of a nudge.

 

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:56 AM

All the replies posted to your question are correct.  It may help you if we can be sure that you understand what the AR1 does.

When the AR1 detects a short as a metal wheel or a powered car or locomotive crosses the insulated gap, it almost instantly reverses the polarity of the rails in the reversing section to eliminate the short.  If there is any power to the reversing section that is not coming through the AR1 when the section reverses it will create a dead short.

As others have said, you can have a buss and multiple drops in the reversing section, but that buss must be powered by the output of the AR1 only.

Remember that your must isolate both rails on all ends of the reversing section.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 7:02 AM

Vail and Southwestern RR

The AR1 supplies the power to the reverse loop.  You can run a bus from the AR1, and have as many feeders to the reversing section as you want.  You have to make sure that your main bus is not connected to the reversing section in any way, and that the rails are gapped at both ends.  It sounds to me that one of these things is not true.

This is the correct advice.  The AR1 auto-reverser unit is a fine product.  I have two of them on my layout.  I run them on an NCE powered layout.

In each case, I completely isolate the reversing section by cutting gaps on each rail on both sides of the reversing section.  Then, I run a set of feeder wires from the bus wires to one side of the AR1 and a set of feeder wires out of the other end of the AR1 to the reversing section.  From that set of wires leading to the reversing section, I use a pair of wire connectors to join a series of feeder wires that branch off to feed power from the reverser to the various pieces of track inside the reversing section.

In your case, your entire upper level is the reversing section, so the upper level needs to be completely isolated from the lower level.  Any feeder wires from the tracks on the upper level need to be routed through the AR1, not to the bus wires that power the lower level.  No feeder wires coming off the bus wires can be directly routed to any track on the upper level.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by GMILL47 on Monday, October 18, 2010 9:56 PM

I installed two of the units.  One worked perfectly, the other I kept having problems with.  I found I had a rail gap that had closed and was causing a short.  Once I opened a gap, it worked perfectly.  By the way, I have an NCE system

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Posted by cacole on Monday, October 18, 2010 8:08 PM

If you have the AR-1 connected properly, it must be supplying all the power to your entire upper level, since you say that level is a large reverse loop.  If you have separate feeders in addition to the AR-1, you're creating a short circuit.

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Monday, October 18, 2010 8:08 PM

The AR1 supplies the power to the reverse loop.  You can run a bus from the AR1, and have as many feeders to the reversing section as you want.  You have to make sure that your main bus is not connected to the reversing section in any way, and that the rails are gapped at both ends.  It sounds to me that one of these things is not true.

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

  • Member since
    February 2010
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ar 1 problems
Posted by bnsf0823 on Monday, October 18, 2010 8:02 PM

i have a large layout that the top level is one huge reversing loop.  I decided to go with the ar1 for my reversing.  i had everything working properly and then hooked up the ar1 and as soon as my trains hit the insulated joiners the whole system starts to short or stutter.  I have a zepher system for my control unit.  Does the ar1 supply power to my tracks in the reversing section?   Is it ok to have multiple feeds from my bus line throughout the loop or will that mess up the ar1?  if so what is my best way around this.  I do not have the layout devided into multiple sections as far as power goes yet but will eventually.  PLease help me am i better off getting another reversing mechanism.?   Thanks , bnsf fan

 

 

 

 

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