IVRW Well, Rich, here is what's happening. I decided to conduct a little test. I hooked up some external feeder wires to a piece of track that ended in a switch. The train ran for the length of track, and stalled just after the frog. I decided to do a penny test of the track with pliers to trip the DCC system. The first track didnt work, and neither did the second, but when I laid down the pliers to go to the controller, they accidently tripped the system. I went back to see what happened, and found that it spanned the two rails that were farthest from each other, the inner rail of the farthest track, and the outer rail of the closest track. This meant the ME turnouts didnt carry power to the switch rails beyond the frog as advertised, or at least the impression I was given. I looked back at my feeders, and found that they were both pinned in between ME turnouts, so it was no wonder any power was getting to the track, as it was a totally incomplete circuit. I am now in the process of tearing up all the flextrack pieces I have already laid and I am attaching feeders to every single one of them. And, for the first time in my model railroading history, my wiring actually worked. I would give you all pictures, but Ive had another electrical problem: Ive lost the cord that connects my camera with my computer. And I highly doubt that you guys can help me with that. Thanks for everything guys!
Well, Rich, here is what's happening.
I decided to conduct a little test. I hooked up some external feeder wires to a piece of track that ended in a switch. The train ran for the length of track, and stalled just after the frog. I decided to do a penny test of the track with pliers to trip the DCC system. The first track didnt work, and neither did the second, but when I laid down the pliers to go to the controller, they accidently tripped the system. I went back to see what happened, and found that it spanned the two rails that were farthest from each other, the inner rail of the farthest track, and the outer rail of the closest track. This meant the ME turnouts didnt carry power to the switch rails beyond the frog as advertised, or at least the impression I was given. I looked back at my feeders, and found that they were both pinned in between ME turnouts, so it was no wonder any power was getting to the track, as it was a totally incomplete circuit. I am now in the process of tearing up all the flextrack pieces I have already laid and I am attaching feeders to every single one of them. And, for the first time in my model railroading history, my wiring actually worked. I would give you all pictures, but Ive had another electrical problem: Ive lost the cord that connects my camera with my computer. And I highly doubt that you guys can help me with that. Thanks for everything guys!
Very cool and nice job of detective work. I love your comment, "And, for the first time in my model railroading history, my wiring actually worked." LOL. All of us at one time or another could have said those exact words.
Now, for that lost camera cord that connects to your computer, here is what I would do................
Rich
Alton Junction
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
IVRW Yes Im back again for help in trouble shooting. I just wired my layout the other day, and found that nothing happened when I hooked it up to the DCC system. I have done conclusive tests to show that it is my wiring, and not the locomotive or controller. Here is the story: I hooked up some spare feeder wires to a piece of flextrack on the layout, and got the locomotive running fine for that one length of flextrack, but it stalled when going over a switch. Could this be the problem? Because both my existing feeder connections are surrounded by switches. What am I missing?
Yes Im back again for help in trouble shooting. I just wired my layout the other day, and found that nothing happened when I hooked it up to the DCC system. I have done conclusive tests to show that it is my wiring, and not the locomotive or controller. Here is the story: I hooked up some spare feeder wires to a piece of flextrack on the layout, and got the locomotive running fine for that one length of flextrack, but it stalled when going over a switch. Could this be the problem? Because both my existing feeder connections are surrounded by switches. What am I missing?
IVRW,
It has been 3 days since we last heard from you. What's happening?
You said that "nothing happened when I hooked it up to the DCC system". That implies that something was wrong with the DCC command station or the wiring itself.
Then you said "I hooked up some spare feeder wires to a piece of flextrack on the layout, and got the locomotive running fine for that one length of flextrack, but it stalled when going over a switch." Do you mean that the length of flextrack was wired to the DCC command station via the feeder wires connected to the bus wires? If so, then the DCC command station is functioning properly, so the problem is in the switches (turnouts) or the way they are wired.
Even in the absence of motor control or manual ground throws, if the switches (turnouts) are receiving power at both ends on the straight through rails, the engine should not stall upon reaching the switch unless the feeder wires to the switches are out of phase. If the switches (turnouts) are wired correctly and the engine still stalls, there is a problem with the switch.
The only other issue is to determine whether the stall is caused by a short. Some type of light on the DCC command station should be blinking if a short is occurring, so even in the absence of a voltmeter, you should be able to isolate your problem.
Let's us know where you are in the troubleshooting process.
"DCC Friendly" doesn't mean much, really. It doesn't imply that power flows automatically between the point end and frog ends of the turnout. It simply means that you don't have to do any special extra wiring just to keep it from shorting.
What DCC Friendly does mean is that you can put feeders on both rails of all 3 tracks attached to the turnout. Good wiring practice says that you really, really should do this as well. Turnouts will be the weakest link in rail power distribution, and feeders are the best way to get around this deficiency.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
IVRW the problem is that no power is getting to the track whatsoever.
the problem is that no power is getting to the track whatsoever.
First thing I would do is disconnect your DCC system, and hook it to a spare section of track of track and see if it works. If DCC system checks out, disconnect all you feeders and start hooking them up one set at a time. If, you loss power as soon as you hook a feeder to the DCC system, then I would start pulling the turnouts. Test them individually and see if you can find the bad one.
All so, this is going to sound silly (but I did it last week) make sure you have your DCC system wired correctly. When I go my DT 400 back from Digitrax I was in a hurry to get it back on line, stuck the Rail Power Lines in the ground slots of the DB 150. I was freaking out!
Good Luck
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
I agree with getting a volt meter. They are just a few dollars at any hardware store. Meter the voltage with nothing on the rails, then mount your engine and let it get to the stall point. Meter again on either end of the engine and go out at least a foot, metering for certain before and after the first metal joiners. You may find that the joiners are at least part of the problem, but you may find that a points rail is not passing current up close to the frog gaps.
-Crandell
IVRW The initial problem occurred with DCC friendly turnouts. I will use caboose ground throws, but for now, Im not using anything.
The initial problem occurred with DCC friendly turnouts. I will use caboose ground throws, but for now, Im not using anything.
I'm not sure about the ME turnouts, but I'm pretty sure that there are no springs in the Shinohara turnouts which would keep the switch points pressed against the stock rails. So if the engine is stalling on the turnout, it could be because there is no current getting to the point rails. With a DCC friendly turnout, the frog is dead anyway. Therefore, one thing for you to try would be to manually push the throwbar against the stock rail when the engine is stalled and see if that corrects the problem.
And I think when you posted the first time someone suggested that you get yourself an inexpensive volt/ohm meter with some clip leads. It is a lot easier to trouble shoot things with a meter than running an engine around, especially if you say that everything appears dead. And if you have a meter, than someone on this forum can probably tell you specifically where to clip the leads to check for voltage.
Hi,
To rephrase what Randy and others have indicated, you apparently need feeders on either side of the turnouts, as they obviously won't let the power flow thru on both rails. Of course make certain that a "short" condition doesn't exist either - which should be indicated on your controller.
Lastly, I KNOW that this can be frustrating, but you will get it resolved if you are patient and work with the folks on this side of the fence. Trust me, there is no "mistake" you could encounter that I haven't dealt with already................
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
You SHOULD add additional feeders, but you don;t have to rip up your track to do this.
Alse see here, ME DCC Friendly turnouts do not have power to the frog rails - you DEFINITELY need feeders past the ME turnouts for this to work: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_ME_BK.htm
Other pages on that site show Shinohara turnouts and others.
And people wonder why I stick with Atlas....
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Nothing works with my wiring. The initial problem occurred with DCC friendly turnouts. I will use caboose ground throws, but for now, Im not using anything. Thats my problem, its like there is no way out. Heres an idea for you, should I rip everything up and attach feeders to the underside of every piece of track, switches included?
Are you getting any indication of a short on the DCC system when you connect it to the layout?
If you put the engine on the section of track where the feeders attach, does it work? Does it then stall when it gets to the turnout?
Since you are in the construction phase, do you have switch machines and / or groundthrows to operate your turnouts? Or, are you just living with them loose for now until you get to that point? I'm thinking that's your trouble. Power-routing turnouts really need something to hold the points solidly against the stock rails to make good electrical contact.
Selector, it seems to be both. There are no reverse loops or anything of the such seeing as my shelf layout is 3 feet wide, and a nicely sized turn table, wye, or loop would we way out of the question.
mobilman44, the problem is that no power is getting to the track whatsoever. I could lay a metal lamp across the track for all I care but the DCC system doesnt beep. It is a problem with the wiring. Here is what I know for sure: The turnouts dont carry the power to the next piece of track, regardless if it is power routing or not, and no power is getting to the track.
And with which of these are you finding the problem? Would you supply a detailed and current diagramme of your track plan?
I have two kinds. ME DCC friendly for mainline turnouts, and Shinohara power routing for spurs
I'm relatively new to DCC but have made it through all the bumps that have come up so far.
As you tested the system & loco on a piece of track and it works, the problem obviously lies in the layout trackage and/or the wiring.
I would first check that there is nothing else - including locos & cars - on the layout, other than the test loco. If it still doesn't work, I would assure that all your feeder wires (a set every 4 feet is proper) are lined up the same way - i.e. the same wire to all outside tracks, the other wire to all inside tracks.
The fact that your loco stops at a turnout is often caused by the turnout being in the wrong position, If it stops ON the turnout, the frog is not energized. I use Atlas code 100 turnouts, and have had to wire the frogs for all the #8s, but the locos go smoothly across the frogs of the # 6s and # 4s.
Finding a problem like yours can be a long tedious process, and you may have to resort to having just one set of feeder wires connected and build up from there, testing each step.
What kind(s) of turnouts are we dealing with? Make, model. Some route power, some don't.