In another post, i talked about programming my MP15AC, but since i am using sectional track (soldered at each join) the train loses power even though the joins are soldered. So i was thinking about getting a small boxcar or tanker and hooking up pickups to the wheels and putting that power into the engine, so it would be on 3 sections at once. Have any of you tried this? If so, was it really complicated, and did it work?
Thanks, Travis
That's not why your loco is loosing power. How big is this layout, and how many feeders do you have going to the track? Even if you soldered all the rail joints, a single set of feeders will NOT work. I once set up a simple 4x8 oval of Bachmann EZ-Track, with 4 sets of feeders equally spaced, and STILL had power problems (joints were not soldered). If all your solder joints are good, feeders every 3 to 6 feet are recommended. Tie these together with heavier gauge wire and connect that to your DCC system.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I agree with Randy. Good power distribution is essential. Getting power to the track is the next thing after benchwork for me. I ran my track power bus before I put down any sub-roadbed.
But, the track and the wheels also need to be clean. That kind of intermittent power pickup is often a sign that your track needs cleaning, and you should check the engine's wheels while you're at it.
Occasionally, a wire comes loose inside the engine. You can use a multi-meter to "buzz out" the connectivity of the wheels. There should be connectivity between all wheels on either side of the engine. If you've lost connectivity to one side of a truck, that would also behave the way you've described, even with perfect power distribution and clean rails.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
If your track doesn't have enough feeder wires no amount of modifications or gimmicks added to the locomotive is going to cure the problem.
You may have poorly soldered rail joints (so-called 'cold' solder) that is not making good contact, but first and foremost you probably need more feeder wires.
Yeah, currently i have a 4x8 double mainline loop with one feeder. I soldered all joints with low melt lead free soler and used fluw so the solder went in between the rails. Also, I have cleaned the wheels using a paper towel technique i learned from a MR video. Maybe i should run 3 on outer loop 3 on ineer, and one on each of the yard tracks, that should cure my problem. I just had never experienced any problems with my BLI AC6000. Maybe becuase it has more wheels sp if two cut out it still has power. Ill try adding more feeders and ill report back! Thanks
Yep just add some more feeders. You should also clean the rails with paint thinner.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Motley Yep just add some more feeders. You should also clean the rails with paint thinner.
I'm not sure I'd use paint thinner, since it could well turn the plastic ties on sectional track into so much goop, not to mention what would happen if you got it on your prized loco's shell. Isopropyl or rubbing alcohol would be better choices since they will dissolve the crud while having little or no effect on the plastics.
But I agree completely that clean track and an adequate bus/feeder setup are absolute musts!
Part of the reason the BLI engine runs better is it has much more weight than the MP15AC. The switcher is kinda light, and it will show you where you have inadequate feeders, dirty track, etc. There just isn't anywhere in the switcher to add weight, so just get another one, and run them paired up. We do that in 1:1 scale as well.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
After you have the track wired clean your track then clean it again. I don't mean run a track cleaning car over it. I mean a bare knuckles elbow grease cleaning. And when you think it's clean enough do it again. When you can go around the entire layout with a white cloth and pick up no crud you should have a good basis on which to judge what you have to do next. Put some thought into the GLEAM track cleaning method too. It works. With wiring and track issues out of the way any problem that remains will be something inherent to the locomotive. Dirty wheels, dirty pickups, loose wire, etc.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
It's pretty easy to tell which problem you have. If the loco stutters and/or the lights blink, you have a pickup problem - dirty track, dirty wheels, loose wire. If the loco keeps running but slows down, you have a power problem - need more feeders.
If the cleaning and feeder additions don't fix the problem try a decoder reset. I've had a loco stop and go sporatically that turned out to be a scrambled decoder. Resetting fixed it.
Springfield PA
Put feeders at both ends of switches. Some switches reley on the point rails to feed power thru the switch and your switcher may not be heavy enough to put enough pressure on those point rails to keep the power flowing thru the switch. Feeding switches from both end usually elliminates this issue.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Travis Malek Yeah, currently i have a 4x8 double mainline loop with one feeder. I soldered all joints with low melt lead free soler and used fluw so the solder went in between the rails. Also, I have cleaned the wheels using a paper towel technique i learned from a MR video. Maybe i should run 3 on outer loop 3 on ineer, and one on each of the yard tracks, that should cure my problem. I just had never experienced any problems with my BLI AC6000. Maybe becuase it has more wheels sp if two cut out it still has power. Ill try adding more feeders and ill report back! Thanks
If you do not have adequate feeders, I can think of three things that could cause you to notice problems with some engines and not others:
1. Since voltage drop is a directly porportional to current draw, the more current a loco draws the more likely you are to notice a problem.
2. If one engine is typicaly operated at a lower voltage than the other, you will be more likely to notice a problem(because the same amount of voltage drop will be a greater percentage of voltage).
3. Decoders that have Bemf compensation can mask some voltage drop by increasing the decoders output to make up for the engines loss of speed.
Stevert Motley: Yep just add some more feeders. You should also clean the rails with paint thinner. I'm not sure I'd use paint thinner, since it could well turn the plastic ties on sectional track into so much goop, not to mention what would happen if you got it on your prized loco's shell. Isopropyl or rubbing alcohol would be better choices since they will dissolve the crud while having little or no effect on the plastics. But I agree completely that clean track and an adequate bus/feeder setup are absolute musts!
Motley: Yep just add some more feeders. You should also clean the rails with paint thinner.
I agree about the paint thinner. Better to use denatured alcohol.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Stevert: Motley: Yep just add some more feeders. You should also clean the rails with paint thinner. I'm not sure I'd use paint thinner, since it could well turn the plastic ties on sectional track into so much goop, not to mention what would happen if you got it on your prized loco's shell. Isopropyl or rubbing alcohol would be better choices since they will dissolve the crud while having little or no effect on the plastics. But I agree completely that clean track and an adequate bus/feeder setup are absolute musts! I agree about the paint thinner. Better to use denatured alcohol. Rich
Stevert: Motley: Yep just add some more feeders. You should also clean the rails with paint thinner. I'm not sure I'd use paint thinner, since it could well turn the plastic ties on sectional track into so much goop, not to mention what would happen if you got it on your prized loco's shell. Isopropyl or rubbing alcohol would be better choices since they will dissolve the crud while having little or no effect on the plastics. But I agree completely that clean track and an adequate bus/feeder setup are absolute musts!
I have tried to use alcohol and it doesn't seem to clean as good as the paint thinner. I dip a rag in the thinner and with my finger I just go along the tops of the rails. I'm not soaking all the ties with this stuff.
I have had a similar issue at our club. I took a cheap digital voltmeter on the AC scale and went along the track on both rails. I would then see a voltage drop at the bad spot. With the NCE Power Cab or NCE Power Pro, the normal voltage is around 14 volts AC. A loco needed to be on the rails for a load.
We now use a 12 volt auto bulb, 1157, for a load. Two clip leads are soldered to the base of the bulb. Much easier.
I now have made a simple adapter that allows this digital meter to read the real DCC voltage which actually is not much different than what the original meter would read. Many test have confirmed the readings.
Our layout was built in the 1980's using a hardware store flux, not rosin flux, which years later is allowing feeder connections to come loose. With fourteen blocks, this has become a pain.
Under the layout, we cut the feeders and connected then to the #14 buss but problems remained above as time went on.
Sometimes, only one or two strands of the #22 feeder were connected as corrosion set in.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Forgot to mention, we run a couple boxcars every so often with the John Allen suggestion for cleaning rails. Masonite pads are under the boxcars. We on average, run six sound locos. Once in a while, twelve sound locos.
We use the 5 amp at the club, No other boosters.
I use the power cab at home and only two locos.
My short wheel base 44 tonners run just fine. Eight wheel pickup.
Exactly my problem is the train actualy stops, not just slows down, it just out of nowhere stops. And by the way, i use a bright boy and wet paper towels to clean teack, i have never tried any kind of solvent or solution, before i buy anything, i need to make sure it wont hurn the plastic ties and roadbed. (Atlas True- Track, its code 83 sectional with roadbed) And i cant imagine that its a locomotive issue, i Just bought it, then again, i took the whole thing apart trying to get to the decoder area, so i may have damagaed some wires or pickups. Ill have to check. And yes, putting powere by the switches sounds like a good cheap insurance from future power problems. But i am just testing it on the mainline, right by the feeder, only a few feet away. And it still stops, sometimes ON the feeder, so idk, ill add a few more and see what i get. Btw, and recomendations on wire gauge? 12 for bus and 22 for 6 inch feeders? Will that be large enough to carry the power around?
I have a clean three foot section of Atlas track I use to test a loco.
I use a piece pf 2000 grit paper to clean the track. Vacuum up the loose material. It the loco stops and starts, I know I have pickup issues with the loco.
When I can have the loco move down this track at about 1 to 2 mph, reverse and move back and not stop, I know I have a good loco/decoder install.
Some locos have a thin metal strip on each side of the truck that each end of the wheel axle passes through and can be an issue. Some of my diesels, the plastic outside of the truck holds this metal plate in place and pins in this plastic piece press into the truck frame. If not firmly in place, intermittent pickup.
I also use my multimeter on resistance to check the continuity between the wheels and the red and black decoder pickup wires. Running the loco is a sure way to check for continuous continuity.
A couple times I actually used two long #30 wires directly from the DCC controller to the decoder red and black pick up wires which told me I had a pickup issue I did not want to believe I had.
Travis Maleki use a bright boy and wet paper towels to clean teack,
You said you use a wet paper towel to clean the track. What is the solution that you use to wet the paper towel? I hope you do not use water.
About that... yes, yes i use water. Is that a bad thing? I didnt think it was...
No way should you use water. NOT EVER.
Now you will have to do a though cleaning of all parts the water may have come in contact with. Might have dried out though. You might develop a problem with corrosion because of the water.
If you have cleaned the track with alcohol and have good feeders, then you have pickup or decoder issues.
Make a solid three foot section of track and connect the DCC controller. Make sure the loco runs forward and backward with no issues.
ALWAYS have a test track. It makes testing a lot easier.
I sometimes use a product called Rail Zip, a contact enhancer and very sparingly, I mean sparingly. Many people think more is better.
Something you may want to check!!!!!!!
Alcohol evaporates and leaves nothing behind. I'm not so sure about paint thinner. It may leave a some what oily residue.
Hope you get the problem solved.
Lee
jeffrey-wimberly Travis Malek: i use a bright boy and wet paper towels to clean teack, There's part of your problem right there. A Bright Boy is abrasive and you end up scoring the rails giving dirt a place to accumulate that your paper towel can't get to. Might as well be using sand paper.
Travis Malek: i use a bright boy and wet paper towels to clean teack,
Actually it's a good time for this. If you've been using a bright boy, a good way to clean up the tracks is to give it a good rubbing with 600 grit sandpaper and toss the bright boy. The 600 grit will remove the gouges and give you a workable surface. from there you can either switch to Alcohol for standard cleaning or even better, perform the Gleam method on them.
Travis Malek Yeah, currently i have a 4x8 double mainline loop with one feeder. I soldered all joints with low melt lead free soler and used fluw so the solder went in between the rails.
Yeah, currently i have a 4x8 double mainline loop with one feeder. I soldered all joints with low melt lead free soler and used fluw so the solder went in between the rails.
Travis, I have three ideas for you:
First, I am a little suspicious about the kind of solder you are using to solder to your track. It is best to use the small diameter rosin core electronic solder and some paste flux. I don't trust the low melt variety to make a good low impedance connection.
Secondly, you may well have an issue in the conductivity to the wheels of the locomotive. I don't know what brand of loco it is but it doesn't matter. Any brand can have this issue. I have found several of my Athern diesels to have intermittent connections to the truck assemblys. It is now my practice to solder new jumper wires directly to the lower rivet and side plate on the base of the truck assembly on every one of these type units I pull apart. Always use electronic rosin core solder for this work too.
Those truck connections can appear perfectly alright, but still may not work. You can confirm this issue by running the loco without the shell until it stops, then clip an alligator lead from the right side rail and touch the lead to the red decoder connection. If the engine takes off, you know the problem is in the right truck connections - both of them!
Check the left side in a similar fashion. Clip the alligator lead from the left rail to the black decoder wire. If the engine takes off, you know there is a bad connection on the frame side of the truck circuits.
One more possibility occurs to me, and that is the motor frame touching the locomotive frame. I seem to remember that you installed a decoder in this loco. If so, you may have insulated the motor and put tape under it. Check to see if maybe this is making an intermittent short. Add more tape if in doubt.
Just a couple more ideas for you to try - good luck.