I know I asked this question on a forum, but can't remember which one, as no replys were received. Don't think it was on this one though.
I have two DCC Sante Fe locos. Want to run them both back to back. Even though I will use a controller meant for these locos, will I have any problem with either loco suddenly changing direction, and thus smoking something? Assuming the latter won't happen, what about loco speed? Will it be possible to program them both accurately enough that I won't have a problem? Anyone ever done this? I could have bought a dummy, but figured at the price I got them for, might as well get two.
Hope I don't turn out to be the dummy. :-)
Just thought the extra power would be nice. Just don't want to 'tune in' to a smoke program.
Jack
allstate811.40 I know I asked this question on a forum, but can't remember which one, as no replys were received. Don't think it was on this one though. I have two DCC Sante Fe locos. Want to run them both back to back. Even though I will use a controller meant for these locos, will I have any problem with either loco suddenly changing direction, and thus smoking something? Assuming the latter won't happen, what about loco speed? Will it be possible to program them both accurately enough that I won't have a problem? Anyone ever done this? I could have bought a dummy, but figured at the price I got them for, might as well get two. Hope I don't turn out to be the dummy. :-) Just thought the extra power would be nice. Just don't want to 'tune in' to a smoke program. Jack
Jack, you didn't mention the DCC system you are using. I use NCE. And I have several sets of diesels running together on a train, 2, 3 or even 4 diesels to a train. I use the consist feature, which means you identify the first loco (lead) and then as it asks for additional units, you add them one at at time. If you have an A unit for example, you would identify it as the lead unit and make sure it is set for the forward direction. Then it asks for additonal units, you add them by their engine number one at a time. If they are pointing the same direction, you tell the system so, but if they are running reversed, for example the last unit in a consist, you identify it as running reverse. Once you have completed the process you will have your consist, and it will stay together until you delete the consist number. Hope I was able to make this clear for you, ask if you are still lost.
When "consisting" various units, you will want to use units that run the same speed or it will be a "jerky" consist.
Bob
To really discuss the solutions, it's also necessary to know the kind of decoders you've got in the engines.
Use the "Search Community" feature to look for "speed matching." There have been a number of threads about this. DCC allows you to set up the "CVs" in each locomotive so that they will all accelerate, decelerate and run at pretty much the same rate. Once you've done this, your engines will run well with each other, with neither of them running too fast or too slow.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hi!
I've asked your questions here several months ago, and got everything resolved. The previous posters gave you excellent info, but may I add.......
Put your two A units on the track about a foot or so apart, headed in the same direction. Run them around the layout a few times and see how much faster one is vs the other. I found that my Proto and Stewart locos were very close in speed and for my purposes, speed matching was unnecessary. Note this is only for one E7 A/A set and one F3 ABBA set. This does not mean that all of my like locos will run closely, and I fully expect that I will need to speed match as I set the locos out (layout is currently under construction).
The directional thing messed me up for the two E7 A units as I had totally forgotten how to get them going in the same physical direction if they were "back to back". As I figure I would always keep them together (they pull a beautiful string of Walthers IC passenger cars), I put them on the test track with each set up for the opposite direction, and gave them the same ID number. Of course if I chose to keep them with individual numbers, I would half to consist them.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
If they are the same brand locos usign the saem decoders, they likely will already be matched good enough - some people get carried away. You don't want them constantly fighting, or the pair will end up pulling less than a single loco would, but they don;t have to be so even that the gap changes by less than 1/32" across all speed steps.. If they don;t have much running time, let them break in first. And check the lubrication. A little goes a long way - and some brands have so much grease in the gears from the factory that it actually HURTS performance.
Now for runnign them together - there are two ways. You can use the consisting ability of the DCC system to link them together, and all the major systems allow you to set the direction so that one is running backwards. Or if you are going to permanently couple them with a drawbar and ALWAYS run them together, you can simply give them the same address, and then add 1 to whatever value CV29 ends up being to one of them so it runs in reverse.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If you tell us what DCC system you are using, then someone who uses that system will tell you the steps to accomplish it. It is very simple to do with my Digitrax Super Chief. I imagine it is probably pretty easy in other systems as well.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
If they have descent decoders it would be a simple enough task to match the speed of both locos. On the other hand, if they have cheap decoders such as the Bachmann decoder (stripped down Lenz) then you have a problem. In that case I remove the cheap decoder and replace it with a Digitrax decoder. After that speed matching is relatively easy. As far as a loco suddenly reverting back to it's original direction of travel while in motion (or sitting still for that matter) I've never seen it happen and I've been running locos tail to tail for years on DCC.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
pastorbob allstate811.40 I know I asked this question on a forum, but can't remember which one, as no replys were received. Don't think it was on this one though. I have two DCC Sante Fe locos. Want to run them both back to back. Even though I will use a controller meant for these locos, will I have any problem with either loco suddenly changing direction, and thus smoking something? Assuming the latter won't happen, what about loco speed? Will it be possible to program them both accurately enough that I won't have a problem? Anyone ever done this? I could have bought a dummy, but figured at the price I got them for, might as well get two. Hope I don't turn out to be the dummy. :-) Just thought the extra power would be nice. Just don't want to 'tune in' to a smoke program. Jack Jack, you didn't mention the DCC system you are using. I use NCE. And I have several sets of diesels running together on a train, 2, 3 or even 4 diesels to a train. I use the consist feature, which means you identify the first loco (lead) and then as it asks for additional units, you add them one at at time. If you have an A unit for example, you would identify it as the lead unit and make sure it is set for the forward direction. Then it asks for additonal units, you add them by their engine number one at a time. If they are pointing the same direction, you tell the system so, but if they are running reversed, for example the last unit in a consist, you identify it as running reverse. Once you have completed the process you will have your consist, and it will stay together until you delete the consist number. Hope I was able to make this clear for you, ask if you are still lost. When "consisting" various units, you will want to use units that run the same speed or it will be a "jerky" consist. Bob
Bob, I will be using the Bachmann EZ Command 44902. Still collecting up all the stuff I will need to start both a Lionel Prewar and an HO rail layout. Things sure are a lot more complicated these days. Been away from railroading for many years.
Hi again all. Just wanted to say thinks to all who replied when I asked about the above subject.
Really appreciate all the helpful information.
The EZCommand does not have the ability to program CVs. If you have someone with a more sophisticated system program the rear facing unit to run backward in the forward mode, and give it the same address as the forward facing unit, then the EZCommand will be able to run the consist. Remember the address has to be between 1 and 9. Since 3 is the normal factory default on new ones, I would not use 3.
Actually it appears that you CAN program NDOT with the EZ Command, see the section on about page 4 of the manual titled "Programming forward and reverse operation". What EZ Command DOESN'T do is consisting of any form, other than by setting the two locos to the same address. So, program one to the deisrued button, then take it off the track and program the second one to the same button, and also change the direction of travel. Now put both of them on the track together and select that button, and they should run back to back just fine.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/ez_content/EZ_Command_instructions.pdf
rrinker If they are the same brand locos usign the saem decoders, they likely will already be matched good enough - some people get carried away. --Randy
If they are the same brand locos usign the saem decoders, they likely will already be matched good enough - some people get carried away.
Eh, not always. The Bachmann RF16s I own (5 of them) have 5 different speeds between them. Of course, these are factory decoders, so thete's no easy way to match them anyhow, so I just make sure they aren't constantly dfighting
To the OP: My limited experience in DCC tells me thus: An engien suddenly flipping direction will not smoke anything unless you just ignore the problem.
It also tells me that unless someone unconsists the engine and hits the direction control, or you have a fualty reverser unit, this shouldn't happen. I HAVE learned about DC and reversers, which flip the polarity on track running into itself. DCC engines are "smart" enough to autmoatically flip their directions when they hit a reverser, and will tell the controller that as well. What it ends up being is that the engine thinks forwards is reverse, and reverse is forwards, but when the controller says go forward, the engine goes "Ah. I am backwards, therefor I need to input backkwards" and the engien goes the right way.
In DC, when the power is flipped, the DC engine suddenly kicks into the other direction. Because there is no chip in it, forwards becomes backwards and back is forward. Running two DC engines will result in the first one flipping, and pushing the other one back so it cannot flip. The net distance of the train then, becoems Nil. I;ve done that, And the only way to fix it, is to shove the DC engines across at low power, (so the other engien flips) and then flip the ocntroller nob to get them going the right way.
Since yor engiens are DCC, you'll be fine.
-Morgan