I ran across a number of these engines recently and wondered if any one has added DCC to these engines. These are the old Lifelike models and needless to say do not have any plugs for adding DCC.
Running on DC these engines run quite well, so I am wondering just how hard is it to add a decoder to this engine?
There are at least two versions of these - I have both, although one is in the guise of a paower chassis for an MDC RS-3 kit. It's bascially a direct clone of a blue box athearn and DCC install would be pretty much the same. If it has the pulley drive to the fan I'm probably ditch that to make it run smoother. My AB set of actual FA's has the square circuit board in the back with a plug, on those I will disconnect the stock circuit board and hard wire a decoder.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker There are at least two versions of these - I have both, although one is in the guise of a paower chassis for an MDC RS-3 kit. It's bascially a direct clone of a blue box athearn and DCC install would be pretty much the same. If it has the pulley drive to the fan I'm probably ditch that to make it run smoother. My AB set of actual FA's has the square circuit board in the back with a plug, on those I will disconnect the stock circuit board and hard wire a decoder. --Randy
Just to be clear, the orginal Proto2000 FA's with the working fans are FA2's not FA1's.
FA1's are shorter.
There are two versons of the FA2 drive, the orginal with the working fan and the later without, which does have a circuit board. But the major components are all the same - motor, trucks, etc.
The FA1's were never made with the working fans and all are similar to the later FA2's and have circuit boards as well.
All FA1 releases had very high detail levels, like the orginal FA2, but later FA2 releases had some details on end of the units simplified and no working fans or louvers like the first ones.
I have lots of these - ABA set of orginal FA2, ABBA set of later FA2 and two ABBA sets of FA1's.
They all run great, but the FA1's do benifit from a little extra weight since the factory weight is all in the rear.
Sheldon
I just could not pass up the box of Proto 2000 engines, In the box there were two sets of FA2's and one set of FA1's and a Proto 1000 Erie. All the engines came in their original boxes. The FA2's all have the working fans, the FA1 has no fans, but does have a DCC plug.
I was surprised to see the Proto 1000 has a light board with tabs for adding wiring to convert to DCC.
The sale price was $20.00 for the lot, It was a garage sale and the Proto Engines were a last minute item.
don7 I just could not pass up the box of Proto 2000 engines, In the box there were two sets of FA2's and one set of FA1's and a Proto 1000 Erie. All the engines came in their original boxes. The FA2's all have the working fans, the FA1 has no fans, but does have a DCC plug. I was surprised to see the Proto 1000 has a light board with tabs for adding wiring to convert to DCC. The sale price was $20.00 for the lot, It was a garage sale and the Proto Engines were a last minute item.
You did very well Don. Be aware, you may have a split gear or two, but at that price who cares.
I replaced all the axle sets in mine just to avoid future problems. I used Proto parts (some free, some I bought) and have never had a problem with any of the replacements. I even use the Proto parts in my old Athearn units.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL don7 I just could not pass up the box of Proto 2000 engines, In the box there were two sets of FA2's and one set of FA1's and a Proto 1000 Erie. All the engines came in their original boxes. The FA2's all have the working fans, the FA1 has no fans, but does have a DCC plug. I was surprised to see the Proto 1000 has a light board with tabs for adding wiring to convert to DCC. The sale price was $20.00 for the lot, It was a garage sale and the Proto Engines were a last minute item. You did very well Don. Be aware, you may have a split gear or two, but at that price who cares. I replaced all the axle sets in mine just to avoid future problems. I used Proto parts (some free, some I bought) and have never had a problem with any of the replacements. I even use the Proto parts in my old Athearn units. Sheldon
Yes, I certainly did. I do not run across such deals normally.
All I had on me was the $20.00 and I thought that they might counter with offering me one or two of the sets, which I would have accepted, but they gave me the whole box.
As I mentioned the engines were a last minute item brought to the garage sale and the people running the garage sale were just in the process of shutting it down when i arrived.
I checked out the engines when I got home and one has a slight click, the rest run fine. In fact a couple of the engines were hardly if ever run.
Am still surprised with the Proto 1000 light board, no socket but the tabs are clearly marked for DCC wiring and there is even a portion of the light board marked with an x, a note on the says for dcc cut circuit at the x.
Just to make it easy I'd remove the board in the P1K and just solder the decoder wires. That style board is the one I was referrign to in other psots that I will NEVER just cut the traces and conenct the decoder. It's easy to see which wires go to the motor and which to the track pickups, so solderign the deocder wires in no more difficult that solfering the wires to the holes on the board.
And $20 for that is an amazing haul. I've see the FA1 AB sets at train shows where they were STILL tryign to get $100 for them. ANd the same seller has them at every show..
If you are hearing a clicking sound, you are experiencing the "Proto 2000 split gear syndrome" associated with earlier Proto 2000 runs. I have one that is doing that and I am going to replace those with the Athearn parts rather than the Proto 2000 parts. They fit right in. This is what a lot of modelers have been doing with success. I suppose the Proto 2000 replacement parts will be fine, but how do you know you won't run into the same problem?
The FA-1 is a fine model and regardless of what anyone tells you, it does run better than the older Athearn Blue Box locos. The detailing is incredible with see through fans etc. I just wish they had offered it in Wabash as now I have a whole set to paint and decal. My FABA-1 set (all powered) will pull 40 NMRA weighted cars up a 2% grade on a curve with no problems (even with the one unit and its split gears). However, I think the passenger like diaphragm is not correct for freight units.
Incidentally, if your road has the extra oscilating headlight, replacing that horrible Proto 2000 flicker with a decoder version will be much better as a good quality decoder with a light function will make that pulsate and also let you turn it on and off at your whim. Locomotive engineers did not always activate them, especially on freight trains and in the daytime.
If anyone wants to know what the Athearn part numbers are for the replacement parts on the split gears I will post it here. I plan on stocking some extra parts for my other units just in case.
wabash2800If you are hearing a clicking sound, you are experiencing the "Proto 2000 split gear syndrome" associated with earlier Proto 2000 runs. I have one that is doing that and I am going to replace those with the Athearn parts rather than the Proto 2000 parts. They fit right in. This is what a lot of modelers have been doing with success. I suppose the Proto 2000 replacement parts will be fine, but how do you know you won't run into the same problem?
I have over thirty Proto locos subject to the gear spliting problem, all have been repaired with Proto parts.
Among the members of our local round robin group and a local club, there are well over 100 more of the "subject" locos, all have been repaired with Proto parts.
Not ONE replacement gear has split. The failure was restricted to one large batch of product that did cover a large number of models, but many locos have never experianced the problem.
In all my time on this forum and one other forum, I have NEVER read where a modeler has complained that a replacement gear from Proto/Walthers failed.
Because of their low price and and universial nature, I actually used Proto axle sets to upgrade my older Athearn units with the iron wheels.
I have nothing against Athearn or their parts, I'm a big Athearn fan as well, but there is NO evidence to suggest that Proto replacement parts will fail. They FIXED the problem - a long time ago.
wabash2800However, I think the passenger like diaphragm is not correct for freight units.
This varied from railroad to railroad (like an option on a car) and depended a lot on the age of the equipment - BUT most early cab units like the FA's and EMD F units where built with diaphragms. Often they where removed later as soon as they needed repair. Some roads kept the diaphrams in operation for the life of the equipment. Do not confuse the fact that other model companies chose not to install diaphragms on hood units as some "prototypical" fact.
This link shows a picture of a B&O FA2 in 1967, well after its prime, 15 or more years old, on its third or forth paint scheme. And while the photo is not the best quaity, the diaphragms of it and its ajoining B unit apear to be fully intact.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo4134ae.jpg
Sheldon:
Good to know the Proto 2000 replacement parts are good. As to the diaphragms on freight units I might disagree with you on that. Of the thousands of photos I've seen over the years including builder photos, and the units I rode on, it appears that most freight units did not have them and that includes the EMD F units. I rode on the PRR FP-7's too and never saw them and early photos don't show them either. I am not saying that they didn't exist on frieight units but would say they were the exception and not very common even when the units were delivered. But yes, it sounds very likely that if they had them that they would most likely have been removed at a later date to save maintenance costs.
I am wondering if that B&O FA-2 is a passenger version, as the B&O had them.
wabash2800 Sheldon: Good to know the Proto 2000 replacement parts are good. As to the diaphragms on freight units I might disagree with you on that. Of the thousands of photos I've seen over the years including builder photos, and the units I rode on, it appears that most freight units did not have them and that includes the EMD F units. I rode on the PRR FP-7's too and never saw them and early photos don't show them either. I am not saying that they didn't exist on frieight units but would say they were the exception and not very common even when the units were delivered. But yes, it sounds very likely that if they had them that they would most likely have been removed at a later date to save maintenance costs. I am wondering if that B&O FA-2 is a passenger version, as the B&O had them.
What years were your personal experiances? I ask because based on my research, by the early 60's, or even late 50's, that would have been the case. Many late F7's and F9's were built without them, and by the 60's many roads had removed them as MU practices changed.
BUT in the late 40's (when the ALCO FA1's were built) and through the early 50's, when many cab units stayed coupled as sets, most where built with them and many roads kept them in place, again until MU practices started changing to the modern "mix them up as you need" approach.
Remember, FA's were built between 1946 and 1956 and most ran as fixed sets when new.
As for the B&O units in the photo, none of the B&O ALCO FA's were passenger equiped, in fact NO U.S. roads had passenger equiped FA's, they only existed in Canada.
I do agree that as the 50's marched into the 60's many if not most roads removed them, and again, by the mid 50's EMD was happily building F units without them and ALCO was no longer building FA's (last U.S. FA built 6/56). But, as I said it is a railroad by railroad issue, each having different preferences and histories on the issue.
Additional research so far:
All Santa Fe EMD F units, freight or passenger, built with diaphragms. Many removed later after all units downgrade to freight service only.
Walthers claims that their Proto2000 F units are correct by road/paint scheme on the issue of diaphragms. Most as delivered paint schemes have them, many later paint schems do not. Examples - B&O F7 scheme #2 has diaphrams, later all blue, large "B&O" scheme does not, indicating later removal.
PRR units do not have them.
More info to come....
Makes sense. Early on cab diesels ran like to like, not all mixed up., As later hood units came and railroads ran them in whatever combo suited the train requirements, the diaphragms were fairly useless. Since the rules say any appliance on the loco must be maintained, I would expect rapid removal of the diaphragms. Likewise steam generators when diesels so equipped were removed from passenger service. Even if the boiler was never lit, it still required regular maintenance. Just another expense if not actually used in service, so out they came.
Hers's one example - clearly brand new and a freight unit with no steam generator vents on the roof - but diaphragm equiped.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ln712.jpg
Originally buit to run in sets like this, diaphragms provided crew safety.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/bo84.jpg
But once mixed in with hood units, diaphragms served no purpose.
Even old and derilect, this one still has its diaphragm, but it is passenger heat equiped.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=25644&nseq=229
I was given a book on the CPR which mainly covers South East British Columbia and it discusses in detail their use of EMD and Fairbanks Morse units.
As the units became older CPR pooled most of their FA units to this area, particularly the Kootenays and the Kettle Valley areas. Very few EMD F units ran in these areas until the FA were retired/scrapped. This makes sense from a maintenance aspect.
don7I was given a book on the CPR which mainly covers South East British Columbia and it discusses in detail their use of EMD and Fairbanks Morse units. As the units became older CPR pooled most of their FA units to this area, particularly the Kootenays and the Kettle Valley areas. Very few EMD F units ran in these areas until the FA were retired/scrapped. This makes sense from a maintenance aspect.
Sorry but you are confusing the issue. The FM units are very different from the FA units. CPR did assign a handful of the Alco design, MLW built FA-2s to southern BC when new. They only lasted there for a couple of years before transfer to the eastern lines where the rest of the MLW fleet was based. The Fairbanks-Morse cab units, actually built by CLC in Canada under licence, are known as C-Liners. These, together with the H-16-44 roadswitchers, were based in southern British Columbia for much of their working life, not just "as the units became older". I think that the electrical systems were more robust and could withstand the abuse better than the GM products on the many long 2% grades that plagued the southern route.
John
Hi there! I would be interested in Athearn & proto part numbers if not too much trouble as I m about to jump on a proto 2000 FA 1 AB set Thanks, Jack Barry
This is the Walthers geared wheelset,
The Athearn Gear for similar engines is part number 60024
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I don't know that the cracked gears are common on the FA. None of mine have cracked gears, ALL of my GP7s did. And I have both the newer ones with the lighting board and no workign fan, as well as an MDC RS3 kit that came with a P2K FA chassis instead of the Athearn one, it's the original FA but they left off the fan assembly - the rear flywheel has the groove in it for the rubber band.
Apparently not wanted.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
don7Running on DC these engines run quite well, so I am wondering just how hard is it to add a decoder to this engine?
I hate when people who don't have direct experience answer a question, but here I go anyway...
I haven't wired a P2k FA (ahem) but I have done a couple of non-DCC-ready E-units and they were very straightfoward -- as mentioned above, I didn't bother cutting the traces on the boards, I just pulled them and soldered up the connections to the decoder's wiring harness. I have done one with and one without sound. Very easy installation.
I also did a couple of P2K GP30s which were DCC ready, but even with the shortest wiring harness I had trouble fitting the shell back on -- so I pulled out the circuit board and hard-wired.
I have an FA with the working fan awaiting conversion, and it looks like it'll be as straightforward as the others. Unlike the old Athearn BB drive, P2Ks generally isolate the bottom of the motor from the frame, so that makes the job easier. Wiring around that moving fan could be a pain, though.
ONE IMPORTANT ISSUE is that P2ks use 3-volt bulbs, so if you install the stock bulb it'll die straight away. For my P2Ks I use 14-volt bulbs from All Electronics; they drop right in and the P2Ks allow the bulbs to sit in places where they won't melt the shell.
That said -- Consider the Bachmann Sound Value FA-2s, which Train World sells for $80-100. They also have some DCC-ready FB-2s for $20!!
https://www.trainworld.com/search/?bymanufacturer=5334&bycategory=51&byscale=33&road_name=&electronics=&engine=897
Seperate grabs and wipers, same sound chip/set as in the Walthers Mainline PAs. I assembled an A-B-B-A set (3 sound, 1 silent) for around $300. Individually they don't pull well, but four pull fine and sound great.
Aaron