Bob SanduskyMy concern with the more basic systems is that they seem to be low powered (around 2 amps) which considering I have a lot of older units seems like insufficient power to run more than 1 or 2 locos at the same time. Is this a correct assessment on my part?If the assessment is correct, I think the solution would be to wire additional power districts with their own power supply and booster. Is this a viable solution?
If the assessment is correct, I think the solution would be to wire additional power districts with their own power supply and booster. Is this a viable solution?
Yes, that is a viable conclusion. Adding power districts is relatively simple if the layout's wiring is designed from the beginning with this in mind. Multiple power districts is one of the places where converting a blocked DC layout to DCC can actually make the job simpler.
Bob SanduskyAlso I'm a little leery on the actual cross-compatibility of the decoders (having been in computers before they were truly 'compatible'). Are they truly interchangeable or are there certain decoders that won't work with other manufacture's systems. One of the reasons I ask is that I see advertisements for specific manufacturer's engines as opposed to a 'universal' sort of decoder. I have engines from a wide range of manufacturers over a long time period and I'd really like to be able to avoid settling on a decoder product (I'd like to standardize) that won't work with most (if not all) of my engines.
Also I'm a little leery on the actual cross-compatibility of the decoders (having been in computers before they were truly 'compatible'). Are they truly interchangeable or are there certain decoders that won't work with other manufacture's systems. One of the reasons I ask is that I see advertisements for specific manufacturer's engines as opposed to a 'universal' sort of decoder. I have engines from a wide range of manufacturers over a long time period and I'd really like to be able to avoid settling on a decoder product (I'd like to standardize) that won't work with most (if not all) of my engines.
I'm the DCC guy for a 45+ member NTRAK club. Have been playing with DCC since 1996. I've never had trouble running a decoder on a layout that wasn't either a user programming error or a mechanical problem. DCC compatibility at the track could be compared to plugging in the latest electrical appliance in your home. (If the plug fits the wall outlet it will most likely work.)
Looking over the Digitrax site, you will find dozens of decoders, each intended to fit a certain model loco. Internally may are the same. Look at the last digit in their part number. Every model decoder with that same last digit (currently 5) will have the same basic firmware.Each of their model lines includes a universal wired decoder with the same firmware. I use wired decoders as often as possible (they're cheaper). Circuit board replacements only when I'm in a hurry or fitting a universal decoder would require extreme frame adjustments to get it in.
Bob SanduskyAlso I see that some people claim you can use your old DC power supplies of your new DCC system and some people dispute that. I have some very fine older (read expensive for their time) power packs that if I can use I'd like to so feel free to weigh in on the 'you-can-you-can't' debate.
Also I see that some people claim you can use your old DC power supplies of your new DCC system and some people dispute that. I have some very fine older (read expensive for their time) power packs that if I can use I'd like to so feel free to weigh in on the 'you-can-you-can't' debate.
You can use your old power supply if it meets the requirements of the DCC system. Most manufacturers will give you a range of voltage and a minimum current output for the power supply. If your supply can meet (exceeding just a little is better) then by all means save yourself some money by using the old supply. If it can't meet the requirements, using it could cause damage to the power supply and/or your locomotives and rolling stock. You see, all DCC boosters have over-current protection (circuit breakers) built in. If the booster will shut down when say a 5 amp current is exceeded, it may not ever shut down if your power supply can only put out 3 amps. 3 amps shorted at the track will most definitely weld wheels and melt plastic. The power supply will also be trying to supply more than its rating and will at least run hotter.
As far as choice of system, I'd go for one that can be easily and most definitely added to in the future.Your future need fro up to 4 operators might work better if a better than entry level set were purchased. Digitrax Zephyr will let you run up to ten trains but has only one throttle built in. If future plans will require more throttles and more amperage, the best investment might be a larger system that includes a walk around throttle and larger booster. That would be your choice.
Martin Myers
Well I'm kinda biased, the whole reason I got back into MR after a 35 year hiatus was becasue I discovered you could program the engines to match each other, quite well - imagine helpers!
Besides with all the SP and D&RGW freights I saw growing up with their long chains of SD-40T-2 and SD-45s hauling up grades and boring through tunnels (I even got hauled out of a SP tunnel on a tunnel motor - but that's another story), I was predisposed to replicationg that on a layout.
And I'm on my way. So far, on my test layout I've had seven 6 axle diesels in an reasonable consist. Still more programming to be done though (Decoder Pro is great).
So for me, DCC it is. And just so you know, I'm a software developer so the programming thing I relish. For some it may be a big downer.
Eric
I'm kinda likin this stuff
If you really want to zero stretch an analog loco then it has to be Lenz or Digitrax. You can only run one analog loco at a time. Running zero stretch is not very easy on the motors and it does scramble some older Soundtraxx decoders. I recommend that you should either stay DC analog or weed out your older locos that you will not convert but still want to run. Installing a double pole double throw switch to switch between DC and DCC is potentially dangerous. All you need to do is not remove one DC loco and flip to DCC and burn the motor up in the analog loco. Another is forgetting to disable DC in CV29 of a decoder-ed loco and have it take off on you.
If your happy with DC operations and reluctant to convert your most used locos then by all means stay with it.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
If a starter system is what you think you should use, go for it. As for using both DC and DCC, you can definitely do it and very easily. Just get your favorite DC controller and DCC controller and wire them to a Double pole double throw switch. If the switch is one direction the DC pack in on-line. If the switch is the other way, well you guessed it, the DCC system in on the track.
Springfield PA
I can only speak to the system that I own, the Digitrax Super Chief, but the Tony's comparison chart is obsolete. The Chief has 29 functions, duplex radio, and is available in either 5 or 8 amps.
The chart was last updated 5 years ago.
Bob:
I have never encountered a compatibility issue with any decoder.
You might be surprised how many engines 2.5 amps will run at the same time.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Bob
On my Digitrax Zephyr controlled layout I run decoders from NCE, Digitrax, MRC, TCS (my favorite ones) Soundtraxx, Loksound, QSI and Lenz. Far from standardizing I happily choose the decoder that suits me best for a particular application. I have no issues what so ever running any of these decoders.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Gentlemen:
Once again thank you for the help.
In thinking about my vision of how the layout will eventually look and operate I am leaning toward a lower end system as I really don't envision ever having more than 4 people operating the layout at any given point (and certainly not until it is significantly larger than it is now).
I've knocked MRC out of contention because their products will not run analog units. If I have to convert all 55 powered units to use them then I'm not converting, the added features just aren't worth the added cost, I'll stick with old fashion DC thank you.
My concern with the more basic systems is that they seem to be low powered (around 2 amps) which considering I have a lot of older units seems like insufficient power to run more than 1 or 2 locos at the same time. Is this a correct assessment on my part?
Once again thanks in advance for you input.
Bob Sandusky
It's fairly up to date, at least concerning the systems listed. But there are a few mistakes, atleast with the Digitrax listings, and I would assume witht he others. Plus there are new systems from other manufacturers not listed there.
Also the list of features is pretty meaningless without an explanation of what they are. I know a few months (might have been over a year now) ago in MR the "DCC Dealer's Association" (started by Tony - see a pattern here?) had a comparison chart that seemed to be somewhat updated from the one ont he web site, although still with some errors and, again, no explanation of what those features are. Without any explanation you would tend to interpret a "no" as bad and that is definitely not the case in that chart.
If there are any clubs or other modelers int he area that use DCC, that would eb another way to get aquainted with various systems. Or a LHS that sells more than one brand - just be wary of they are a dealer for one and just get the others drom Walthers they may try to steer you on price, the ones they buy direct as dealers they can offer a better price on. Depending on which ones they offer the better price on, this might be a good thing, but their opinion into which one is better may be swayed by this as well. Or as a dealer of one they may have extra knowledge of that system and not know much about the others they happen to carry which can lead to 'forgetting' about fetures or simply not understanding the operation of the others.
All of the major manufacturers have their manuals online. Read those. The manuals only talk about the specific system, there never are comments about other systems in them.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Bob Sandusky Gentlemen: I would like to thank all who have contributed as the conversation has been helpful to me no matter what side you come down on. The salient points I have gotten so far are: 1) What features does a user want? What does DCC give you that DC doesn't? Is that a reason to make the jump? 2) What does one DCC system give you that another one may not (say computer software limitations as to programming decoders)? 3) Cost of expandability and how big do you actually need to (or plan to grow) grow? 4) Human to technology interface, how easy (comfortable) for you to use the system you choose? All excellent points and information. Now where on-line can I find a fairly recent feature comparison list? Thanks again. I expect I'll be making a decision in the next couple of month's as I'm working on a number of different aspects to the total project (such as how do I modify the 4x8 to attach modules and what modules do I want to build for attachment, etc, etc). Thaks for all that has been posted and those ideas yet to be posted.
I would like to thank all who have contributed as the conversation has been helpful to me no matter what side you come down on.
The salient points I have gotten so far are:
1) What features does a user want? What does DCC give you that DC doesn't? Is that a reason to make the jump?
2) What does one DCC system give you that another one may not (say computer software limitations as to programming decoders)?
3) Cost of expandability and how big do you actually need to (or plan to grow) grow?
4) Human to technology interface, how easy (comfortable) for you to use the system you choose?
All excellent points and information.
Now where on-line can I find a fairly recent feature comparison list?
Thanks again. I expect I'll be making a decision in the next couple of month's as I'm working on a number of different aspects to the total project (such as how do I modify the 4x8 to attach modules and what modules do I want to build for attachment, etc, etc).
Thaks for all that has been posted and those ideas yet to be posted.
You can try this link, however I don't know how up to date it is: http://www.tonystrains.com/productcompare/dcccomparison.htm
Jack W.
Bob Sandusky Accepting as a truism that there is no such thing as the "best" system for all users I am wondering if there is anywhere that anyone has done an objective study of the various pros/cons of each of the systems available today.
Accepting as a truism that there is no such thing as the "best" system for all users I am wondering if there is anywhere that anyone has done an objective study of the various pros/cons of each of the systems available today.
Most such studies end up being feature comparisons. There are a few out there, but they tend to be outdated by new developments, and the addition of new features. And for feature comparisons to be useful, you have to know which features are important to you, and which are not. Finally, unless the comparisons address feature limitations as well, an otherwise great system may have a limitation you don't want to live with.
As an example, MRC Prodigy Express/Advanced/Advanced 2 has a computer interface available. But the limitation is that the JMRI/Decoder Pro software cannot be used with the MRC system and computer interface. There are workarounds available to allow use of JMRI, but those add more costs and effectively bypass the MRC system. How do you capture that in a feature chart? And if you did, the importantance of being able to use JMRI/Decoder Pro software varies greatly from person to person.
Another example is the NCE PowerCab's limitation on number of additional throttles. The base PowerCab allow one other throttle. Adding the Super Booster pushes the limit to 4. But if you add the computer interface, that takes up a throttle "slot" - when the interface is plugged in.
This goes on for all DCC systems and manufacturers. Each has features with limitations. And most limitations have workarounds.
While I can wire a house (or a layout) and do plumbing (but can't solder worth a plugged nickle) I am hesitant to make the jump to DCC as I contemplate getting the old 4x8 restarted and making it expandable into future modules. It mostly has to do with the cost involved rather than the 'I can't do it' syndrome (although there is a little of that). I don't want to buy something that can't grow with me and I don't want to blow a huge amount of money on more system than I need. I also am aware that because of 'Moore's Law' the DCC coming out tomorrow will make today's models look like Model Ts. But like all good tools, it will do tomorrow what I purchase it to do today, so I want to make sure I get the best system available today to handle today's (and tomorrow's known) needs. Everybody has an opinion as to which system is best and why and if you want to post those go ahead I'm open to all input. But what I am really looking for is someone without a dog in the fight to give me their views. Thanks in advance for all the input. Bob
I also am aware that because of 'Moore's Law' the DCC coming out tomorrow will make today's models look like Model Ts. But like all good tools, it will do tomorrow what I purchase it to do today, so I want to make sure I get the best system available today to handle today's (and tomorrow's known) needs.
Everybody has an opinion as to which system is best and why and if you want to post those go ahead I'm open to all input. But what I am really looking for is someone without a dog in the fight to give me their views.
Thanks in advance for all the input.
I don't have a dog in the fight because I've yet to buy a DCC system. But I expect to one of these days.
My selection process will go something like this:
Costs - from my vantage point, DCC costs are greatly misrepresented, depending on the agenda of the writer. My research suggests that the modest (in my opinion) setup I would like would cost at least $700 all up.
Could I go cheaper? Yes, but then I start losing important features. Could I build it a piece at a time? Yes, but I need an end state and total cost in mind when I start down the road.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
ATLANTIC CENTRALFirst off if you like or want onboard sound in HO you need DCC.
ATLANTIC CENTRALif I was building a small layout where a several trains would be expected to operate in close proximity to each other, or, where trains reveresed direction relative to the viewing position, or, where the track plan called for lots of reverse loops, I would choose DCC.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAfter resarching DCC several times, if I ever chose it for a layout there would be only one chioce - EASY DCC for CVP.
Wow! You've convinced me! I'm going DCC!
Why don't you just "come out" of the closet and tell the truth.
Sheldon uses the most advanced DCC system out there!
It's called " Dee's are my Choo Choo's" and aint nobody gonna tell me different.
SpaceMouseBut I prefer to do some things that DC can't do--like run helper service where the helpers break off at the top of the hill reverse directions and return to the bottom to help the next train. Like having a switcher change cabins when the crews change. Or having a switcher add and remove cars while the road engine idles.
If those tasks were within my operational scheme, DCC would likely be important to me. BUT, actually, the cabin change thing is quite easy with advanced cab control. And I know guys who run helpers and cut them off quite easily.
Does your railroad have detection and signals? That feature is more important to me than helper service for example.
In my orginal post I did not say one negative thing about DCC, yet the "you are just backward if you still use DC" attitude is dripping off your comments like:
SpaceMouseBut if you are willing to spend the time figuring out and wiring a system that almost works, more power to you.
How much do you know about how my layout is wired to make such a statement?
SpaceMouseAs long as you are willing to settle for limited operations who really cares.
Limited by what? The fact that I can't have a corn field meet? I'm happy to not have that option.
Sheldon
Fellas,
Can we stop the personal barbs and mudslinging and get back this opening statement? [Emphasis in bold mine]
Bob Sandusky Accepting as a truism that there is no such thing as the "best" system for all users I am wondering if there is anywhere that anyone has done an objective study of the various pros/cons of each of the systems available today. While I can wire a house (or a layout) and do plumbing (but can't solder worth a plugged nickle) I am hesitant to make the jump to DCC as I contemplate getting the old 4x8 restarted and making it expandable into future modules. It mostly has to do with the cost involved rather than the 'I can't do it' syndrome (although there is a little of that). I don't want to buy something that can't grow with me and I don't want to blow a huge amount of money on more system than I need. I also am aware that because of 'Moore's Law' the DCC coming out tomorrow will make today's models look like Model Ts. But like all good tools, it will do tomorrow what I purchase it to do today, so I want to make sure I get the best system available today to handle today's (and tomorrow's known) needs. Everybody has an opinion as to which system is best and why and if you want to post those go ahead I'm open to all input. But what I am really looking for is someone without a dog in the fight to give me their views. Thanks in advance for all the input. Bob
While I can wire a house (or a layout) and do plumbing (but can't solder worth a plugged nickle) I am hesitant to make the jump to DCC as I contemplate getting the old 4x8 restarted and making it expandable into future modules. It mostly has to do with the cost involved rather than the 'I can't do it' syndrome (although there is a little of that). I don't want to buy something that can't grow with me and I don't want to blow a huge amount of money on more system than I need.
Thank you for keeping it on topic.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
pastorbobI use a system called RCS. I get several hours on full charge, and in some cases, have battery packs in the loco with a toggle to switch between. I also have battery packs installed in some freight cars that can run behind a diesel and plug in to add additional battery power. Of course the batteries at this point are heavier and the motor control is small but not small enough for HO yet. For a garden railroad, battery/radio is ideal, no problems with current, clean track, wiring outdoors. But for my HO in the basement, NCE DCC is the system of choice. Bob
Of course the batteries at this point are heavier and the motor control is small but not small enough for HO yet. For a garden railroad, battery/radio is ideal, no problems with current, clean track, wiring outdoors. But for my HO in the basement, NCE DCC is the system of choice.
Bob your trains sound just like our setup, just different control systems.
We use battery/RC for the outdoor layout. I call it outdoor since we can't really grow the typical garden plants in our environment. The system we use is Airwire 900.
For the HO layout we use a Digitrax Zephyr. Our HO layout is fairly small, a few 4 x 8 boards connected together. And we're not real big on switching operations either. Mainly just a double track loop. So the Zephyr is perfect for us.
And I guess for completeness, our O scale layout is controlled with an MRC dual power O27.
But back to the main topic here. I would totally recommend converting to DCC. We used to be DC and finally made the jump. After a few years now we are so glad we converted when we did. Being able to simply program and control various sound functions is a real plus. The only concern is to look at your current loco fleet and see if they can easily be converted to DCC. As has been mentioned, some older locos are tricky to convert.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Sheldon,
As long as you are willing to settle for limited operations who really cares. Life is what you make of it and if your life is great no problem.
But I prefer to do some things that DC can't do--like run helper service where the helpers break off at the top of the hill reverse directions and return to the bottom to help the next train. Like having a switcher change cabins when the crews change. Or having a switcher add and remove cars while the road engine idles.
But if you are willing to spend the time figuring out and wiring a system that almost works, more power to you.
But to me, if it costs relatively the same and is easier to wire and does the job right, then hey. I'm not going to throw something out just because it is newfangled.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouse I think comparing DC to DCC is like comparing a cassette tape player to an iPod. Both play music fine, but you can do a heck of a lot more with the iPod.
And when it comes to listening to music, I have no use for an ipod or a cassette deck. I want to actually hear music, not processed compressed digital static. So I listen mostly to vinyl and to some degree CD's - on speakers that I designed and built.
And just like the DC vs DCC discussion, if you don't need the features of an ipod, or you don't like the way you interface with it, why have it?
I installed/programed some of the very first "computers" used in industry 30 years ago, but today I don't own an ipod, a picture cell phone, a programable thermostat, a DVR, or a "blackberry" type device.
None of those things would make my life easier or better. Niether will DCC.
I think comparing DC to DCC is like comparing a cassette tape player to an iPod. Both play music fine, but you can do a heck of a lot more with the iPod.
For instance, try adjusting two locomotives in a consist to accelerate at the same rate and run at the same speed in DC.
There are a couple of generations in technology already between DC and DCC, and the gap is just going to get wider and wider.Why? Because DCC is a computer system and the programming is going to get better and better and the hardware smaller and smaller.
I'm not advocating that everyone should switch their layouts over. Just if you are starting a new layout, this would be the time.
tomikawaTT Finally, I am a 'hands in the machinery' person - the exact opposite of the 'black box think' required for DCC. I readily admit that there are a lot of people who love DCC. I am not trying to convert them. I am simply stating that I prefer to march to a different drummer.
Finally, I am a 'hands in the machinery' person - the exact opposite of the 'black box think' required for DCC.
I readily admit that there are a lot of people who love DCC. I am not trying to convert them. I am simply stating that I prefer to march to a different drummer.
And that's fine, Chuck. I don't think anyone is saying you have to march to any one particular drummer. Both are very viable platforms and have their advantages.
And, while I think I understand where you are coming from, may I add that you can get as "hands on" or "hands-off" as you want with DCC. Some wiring requirements will be the same; whether they be DCC or DC.
rrinkerI'm still waiting for an encoder knob utility throttle, I hate limited potentiometer controls - I don't use the console of my Zephyr and I have no desire for a UT4.
And when I operate my friends layouts, I prefer the UT4, I dislike encoder knobs, on anything, train controls or stereo controls.
What I see as poor user interface has kept me away from DCC as much as anything.
IMHO, the digital age has brought about many compromises in user interface simply because it is easier to do much of it the way they do, not because it is user friendly or ergomonic. This is largely true of all modern tech, cell phones, stereo's and other A/V equipment, programable thermostats, etc,etc, not just DCC model train controls.
Many people are willing to simply "settle" for what is available or what is presented to them, some of us desire things to be truely user friendly.
32 closely spaced small buttons and small display of criptic icons fails the user friendly test for me.
Easy DCC has the right ideas about user interface!
But I still think I'll wait and see if direct radio goes anywhere.
Whenever I find myself contemplating converting to DCC I take two aspirins and go to bed until the fever subsides...
Like Sheldon, I use a form of Ed Ravenscroft's MZL analog DC system, and have been ever since Ed first described it in MR back in the 1970s. I'm comfortable with it, and I find it rather more user-friendly than trying to run several trains from a device like an entertainment system remote. Add to that a roster of old open-frame-motored locos, DMU and EMU cars - many of which had an (individual) original cost less than that of a high quality decoder with the power capacity it would take to DCC-ify them.
Also like Sheldon, I can live a long and happy life without smoke, sound and smell in locomotives.
Then, too, with analog DC I can set up auto-slow and auto-stop track circuits with nothing more complicated than a few resistors and a few ten-for-a-buck diodes. I haven't priced the electronic widgets needed to do the same in DCC, or the interface with a dedicated layout control computer...
Extending or modifying my track plan does require adding to or modifying the wiring. It doesn't require me to re-write software more complex than a schematic wiring diagram.
As an aside, if I were to contemplate using on board battery power with in-track recharging, I think I'd prefer to put AC on all the plain-jane track, have on-board battery chargers and have the batteries on charge any time the locomotive wasn't passing over (dead) specialwork or reversing sections. This isn't exactly a new idea. The battery mine motors that moved concrete from Lomix to the base of the (now) Hoover Dam recharged from third rail - but only in the 1600 foot tunnel between the concrete plant and the unloading sidings. Lomix was shut down, and the dam was finished, before I was born.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Texas Zepher rrinker Remember there is no more plugging in for Digitrax wireless. Cool, How long ago did that come out? I now just have to wait for all my friends who run Digitrax wireless to upgrade.
rrinker Remember there is no more plugging in for Digitrax wireless.
Since the DT402D/UR92, end of last year. There is also a UT4D now as well. D for Duplex radio. Upgrades follow typical Digitrax policy - the cost of the upgrade is the same as the price difference if you had purchased the upgraded item originally, ie if the DT402D is $50 more than a DT402 without radio it costs $50 to add the radio. Both radio systems can coexist - they use different frequencies - so there is no need to do a mass upgrade at potentially great expense, you can switch over gradually. The DT402 series throttles also have user-upgradeable firmware, so the next feature update should be an quick and easy update, unless the entire hardware changes. I'm still waiting for an encoder knob utility throttle, I hate limited potentiometer controls - I don't use the console of my Zephyr and I have no desire for a UT4.
Here are a few thoughts from someone still using DC, who operates with DCC on a number of friends layouts, and who has considered DCC several times.
First off if you like or want onboard sound in HO you need DCC. I don't like onboard sound in the smaller scales (HO or smaller) so I don't need DCC for that.
Second, if I was building a small layout where a several trains would be expected to operate in close proximity to each other, or, where trains reveresed direction relative to the viewing position, or, where the track plan called for lots of reverse loops, I would choose DCC.
If I was modeling O scale or On30, which is large enough for me to want sound, but not large enough or onboard direct radio with battery power, I would consider DCC or Aristo direct radio (Revolution Train Engineer).
After resarching DCC several times, if I ever chose it for a layout there would be only one chioce - EASY DCC for CVP.
But for my current layout and modeling goals I have considered and rejected DCC because:
I have no interested in onboard sound.
I am building a large but relatively simple layout that is designed for both prototype operation and good display running.
I have a high interest in signaling and CTC control - which requires a complex wiring infrastructure anyway - and the DC cab control can be intergated right into the signaling and turnout controls for a lower cost than seperate DCC train control and a seperate signaling infrastructure.
I am experianced with advanced cab control systems that greatly reduce and automate the number buttons/switches that must be operated to assign cabs to trains. And, I have designed my own version combining several well proven systems from years gone by.
I do not like computer screen CTC panels so the various signal systems that interface with DCC are of no particular interest.
I have used DCC on layouts with DCC controlled turnouts, don't care for that either, too cumbersome.
I have no need for advanced consisting since I model an era of matched diesel power and double headed steam and have no issues simulating these operations in DC.
My layout plan is large and allows for 8-10 trains to operate at once. It provides stagging for about 30 trains and requires about 120 powered locos - that's a lot of decoders or more expensive factory equiped locos. I already have most of what I need and have no interest in replacing/refitting them.
I have the necessary electrical background to wire a somewhat complex control and signal system and to do it is such a way as to make it easy to install and maintain.
I use the Aristo Craft 10 Channel Train Engineer wireless radio throttles. They provide excelent speed control and are very simple - five large buttons - faster, slower, east ,west, emergency stop. No small buttons or hard to read displays. In fact the buttons are such that operation without looking at the hand held is very easy.
I actually like the self imposed restrictions of designing the layout and control system together from the start to obtain the desired goals - I'm not a "wing it" kind of modeler.
The system I have designed meets all my goals at a lower cost than what those goals would reqiure using DCC as the train control method.
So, depending on your needs, wants, goals, and your approach to modeling, DCC may well be the answer, or it may not. Only you can answer these questions and decide if its features are of value to you and if the results justify the cost.
On a medium to small layout, without signaling or complex turnout controls or CTC, DCC is very easy to wire. But once you add in any of these more advanced features, or the layout becomes "large", the required infrastructure for DCC expands rapidly. All my friends with large DCC layouts have miles of wire just like my DC layout - their wires just do different stuff, but they still have lots of it.
My wiring is mostly done on centralized panels that are wired off the layout than installed with usually less than a dozen connections - so while they may be complex, its not really "difficult".
But what do I know.............
SpaceMouse BTW, the next major breakthrough will probably be 'dead" tracks with battery operated locos charged on service tracks. But the technology is probably a decade away.
BTW, the next major breakthrough will probably be 'dead" tracks with battery operated locos charged on service tracks. But the technology is probably a decade away.
In HO your decade away may be right. But I also operate a garden railroad in the backyard with battery packs mounted in the diesels along with the motor control and have since the early 1990's. I use a system called RCS. I get several hours on full charge, and in some cases, have battery packs in the loco with a toggle to switch between. I also have battery packs installed in some freight cars that can run behind a diesel and plug in to add additional battery power.
Remember there is no more plugging in for Digitrax wireless.
locoi1saI am a user of the 3 major brands (Lenz, Digitrax and NCE) and not affiliated with any.
But as you can see this is all personal preferences. Yours will most likely be different from mine.
Georgia TrainsDo I build a layout with conventional wiring or move up to DCC. My layout will be a persoanl one with little anticipation of operating sessions with a group of people.
Much like you, and others, is the cost and features you gain worth it?
This is also a complete new learning curve.
Second loco isn't much harder. Set on track. Choose program on main. Choose set loco to channel x, press button. Choose run mode. Set throttle to channel x, run train. It only starts getting sort of complicated when one starts wanting to do fancy stuff with it. Consists, special sound programming, special lighting, speed curves, etc. All of those are optional.
Even installing decoders is so simple these days. Once again the tricky part can be doing the lighting. without lighting one can install a decoder in an Athearn Blue Box in under 15 minutes. Some others are easier because the motor doesn't have to be isolated from the frame.
I was wondering when another one of these threads will start up again. Ford vs Chevy or less filling - great taste.
I am a user of the 3 major brands (Lenz, Digitrax and NCE) and not affiliated with any. All three are great. Then again I can say All three are junk. As with any technology innovations there are bound to be teething problems for you. Systems will deliver what you want and need if you through enough money at it. The most important thing to consider is the throttle. It is the main human/layout interface. I like the feel of my NCE hammerhead over the little Lenz ZH100. I like the knob feel of the Digitrax throttle but hate the tiny buttons. I like the configuration ability of the Lenz throttle. Your hand will be very different than mine. Pick a system with the best feel for you.