Good morning.
I have the impression that decoders can lose some of their programing if they are left off the layout and unused for a while. For instance F7 and F8 (steam) didn't work right after sitting for a while. I have a couple of others that had small changes. Any thoughts on this?
Have fun.
Lee
I guess it depends on the decoder more than anything else. We recently had a club member remove two locomotives from long-term storage and the TCS T-1 decoders were still programmed exactly as when they were put away.
It has been mentioned on these forums that some MRC decoders tend to lose their memory quite often.
Newer technology devices use memory that should hold the programming for a very long time. Even most older flash memory wasn't a problem but some were sensitive to voltage spikes.
Springfield PA
There is a finite storage limit flash memory - it's not something you'd want to use to store your family photos on to be able to hand down to your grandchildren. It's usually somewhere around 6-10 years.
I recently got back an Alco FA that has an NCE D13SRJ decoder in it. This loco I haven't even seen for over 3 years, let alone had on a DC or DCC layout. It's still configured as it was, address, light dimming, motor trim, etc. The Gp-7 I just finished has been sitting unused for a a year after I initially programmed the decoder, it also is fine, a TCS T1.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The lifespan of current flash memory is based more on the read/write cycles than the life of the device. Theoretically the life of the data once written is at par or longer than any other digital media. I do my backups on 8 gig flash sticks and also have a 256 gig SDD drive. They are extremely fast and reliable. I'm not sure but the decoders might not be using separate flash but internal ram in a pic processor. Of course sound decoders would have external flash to hold the sound files. I guess bottom line is that the newer the technology of the decoder, the benefits that come with the more recent technology follows.
If for some reason the decoder was subjected to a short and not run before being put away the programing could have been corrupted. Shorts do some very strange things to decoders. Sometimes our club members will MU or consist some locos on the club layout and then forget to undo the consist. When they get home the loco will not run and they Email me telling me that their decoder is fried. I talk them through clearing CV19 and all is well again until they do it again. Another is when I set up some locos with the same address to cow and calf them and forget I did it. There was one that had me stumped for awhile until we finally figured it out. At a show one time someone broadcast momentum into all the decoders on the layout to 255. The decoders that do not support that value ignored it while most were changed to maximum momentum. That was fun operating after that change.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
That's probably the biggest issue with DCC manufacturers. It's probably time that they start putting in a little effort to protect the data once written. There is no reason that a short in the system would change the data in a decoder including accessory decoders but it does happen. This is unacceptable and there are basic practices that can be followed to prevent it. Other industries have protected against it so it's time the MRR boys follow suit.
rrinker There is a finite storage limit flash memory - it's not something you'd want to use to store your family photos on to be able to hand down to your grandchildren. It's usually somewhere around 6-10 years. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX --Randy
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
If that would be true, then all of my early Loksound decoders would be silent by now.
I bought my first sound decoder back in -97, and the first Loksound in -98. They are the most stable decoders that I own actually, as they haven´t needed any major adjustments since they were new.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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I keep all road unit sets in fixed consists. I currently have 124 consists (NCE), so obviously not all stay on the layout. I have not had any cases of a consist/decoders losing their identity while sitting on the storage shelves at the staging yards. They are isolated from the railroad, but they seem to hold all programming with no problem. I might mention I use NCE, Digitrax, Lenz and TCS decoders.
Bob
Hamltnblue That's probably the biggest issue with DCC manufacturers. It's probably time that they start putting in a little effort to protect the data once written. There is no reason that a short in the system would change the data in a decoder including accessory decoders but it does happen. This is unacceptable and there are basic practices that can be followed to prevent it. Other industries have protected against it so it's time the MRR boys follow suit.
They tried, Digitrax introduced the decoder lock quite a while ago but in the end it seems to have been ignored by the NMRA and not implemented. Not too many decoders ever supported it. TCS has a version in their decoders. I guess too many people forget what they put in as a lock value and then can't configure the decoder because they never used JMRI or at least wrote down what CV values they programmed.
Graffen rrinker There is a finite storage limit flash memory - it's not something you'd want to use to store your family photos on to be able to hand down to your grandchildren. It's usually somewhere around 6-10 years. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX --Randy If that would be true, then all of my early Loksound decoders would be silent by now
If that would be true, then all of my early Loksound decoders would be silent by now
Randy is referring to storage time, presumably you have used your decoders in that time so they have not been sitting in an unpowered state for 7 years.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Thanks ever one,
If I surmise correctly no one has had a problem with the decoder losing parts of it's programing. I will have to review the file on my locos and see if they match. Haven't had time to run much as I have been working on scenery. When I ran the trains for my little engineer, I noticed some things didn't seem to work right.
have a good day
Lee wrote,
"If I surmise correctly no one has had a problem with the decoder losing parts of it's programing..."
While nobody in this thread has made specific claims, several posts on this issue have been made in these forums and elsewhere.
Most of my own experience with memory loss (other than my own) concerns MRC decoders. Others have been very satisfied with these - but I've had CV changes with these even when not in protracted storage - and not subjected to obvious shorts - no turnout glitches, etc. For this and other reasons, I've decided not to purchase any more MRC decoders - even in RTR locomotives.
I also experienced odd behavior a couple years back with older Soundtraxx DSD100's and 90's. When CV values were reset, the odd behavior ceased - for awhile.
Disturbingly, I also had one or two Digitrax decoders lose some of their settings after not being used for several months.
I believe the phenomenon is real. I admit, with the Digitrax decoders, I've frequently run across non-DCC-friendly turnouts (older ME's driven with Torti) and experienced shorts and restarts. So that might well be some of the problem. As a result, I've become most interested in various fixes (DCC-friendly turnouts, modifying the internal contacts in the Torti - which voids warrantee - and etc).
Whether the memory involved was/is 'flash memory', I have not checked.
Reviewing status periodically with Decoder Pro is a good idea, in my opinion. Thanks for the tip.
Dick Chaffer / Bozeman
I haven't had a loco loose programming yet but I have had my NCE Switch 8 accessory decoders loose the programming on a few occasions after a short. I don't know if there's a way to lock them but the jumper for programming is removed and it still can do it. That's on 2 different decoders.
I can't really claim to have restored engines that were unused for several years to my rails and found them to be fully functional as I had expected. I haven't owned that many engines for that long, but there have been many months, and in one case it was 18 months for a Lionel HO Challenger with an early version of the QSI decoder. It was fine. My average storage time is between 6-9 months. I have 18 different engines with a range of decoders, including a DSD100LC in a P2K FA2/FB2 set that is now going on 18 months. I'll place it on the layout today to see how it behaves. If I don't post again to his thread, it was fine.
I have had some Tsunami decoders do weird things after a track short. Sometimes the chuff starts out accelerating from zero speed, while the engine accelerates immediately to its former speed, but I have had the odd one go completely off synch and stay there until I reprogramme it from scratch.
-Crandell