Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Problem with Tortouse

2977 views
14 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by Hamltnblue on Thursday, June 3, 2010 3:31 PM

 The reason the single pole switch would short is how they're wired.   If it was wired with one leg in series with the torti's it would work fine in one direction.

The original pic actually shows DPDT which I hadn't noticed earlier.  If you remove one of the switches the 2 torti's could work correctly on a crossover.  That's providing the 2 wires from the switch were connected to the common and the source voltage were crossed between the NO and NC contacts.

Springfield PA

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • 283 posts
Posted by Lee 1234 on Thursday, June 3, 2010 10:52 AM
Hamltnblue

 Single throw basically will allow only one direction of travel. It shouldn't short anything, unless of course you wire like the original post.

The short happens when you throw one single pole. The short is opened when you throw the other. With a double throw switch that can't happen. I am assuming all switches to be double pole.

Lee

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by Hamltnblue on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 2:47 PM

 Single throw basically will allow only one direction of travel. It shouldn't short anything, unless of course you wire like the original post.

Springfield PA

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • 283 posts
Posted by Lee 1234 on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 12:07 PM
Reference section 1 of diagram 4 of the instructions that were posted. Run one pair of wires to each tortoise for a total of 4 wires. Use a double pole double throw switch for each tortoise as shown in the tortoise instructions. Do not use the single throw switches, you will short your power supply. This is a summary of all the other posts.

Lee

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Gahanna, Ohio
  • 1,987 posts
Posted by jbinkley60 on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 4:19 AM

hwolf

Thanks Paul.  The 16 Ga was just because I had it in a big roll for Bus Wire.  The telephone wire is a good idea. At this point I only use two connections so I might use the wire cable ( 3 pairs ) to wire all three switches and keep everything neat. I now so what I am doing wrong

I use Cat5 cabling and punchdown blocks for flexibility.

 

Engineer Jeff NS Nut
Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,879 posts
Posted by maxman on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 10:34 PM

richhotrain

Hamltnblue

 The correct wiring for the tortoise can be found here:

http://www.amhobby.com/download/man-tortoise.pdf

That link produces an error.  Can you correct and re-post?

I believe this is what you're looking for: http://www.tonystrains.com/download/man-tortoise.pdf

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 6:18 PM

 Yeah no way is that goign to work, the way that's drawn, if you move one toggle, both Tortoise will move, but if the toggles are opposite each other, you create a dead short through the power supply. Two wires to each Tortoise, not ganged or otherwise coupled to another Tortoise unless you are trying to make two turnouts move at the same time, like for a crossover. No common wiring back at the switches, either, although you could connect your pwoer supply to a termianl strip and feed each toggle from the terminal strip. But the output of the toggle has to go to a Tortoise and you can't use one pair of wires to control multiple Tortoises independently.

                                                 --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 5:00 PM

Hamltnblue

 The correct wiring for the tortoise can be found here:

http://www.amhobby.com/download/man-tortoise.pdf

That link produces an error.  Can you correct and re-post?

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by Hamltnblue on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:53 PM

 The correct wiring for the tortoise can be found here:

http://www.amhobby.com/download/man-tortoise.pdf

Springfield PA

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 571 posts
Posted by hwolf on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:17 PM

Thanks Paul.  The 16 Ga was just because I had it in a big roll for Bus Wire.  The telephone wire is a good idea. At this point I only use two connections so I might use the wire cable ( 3 pairs ) to wire all three switches and keep everything neat. I now so what I am doing wrong

  • Member since
    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 2,899 posts
Posted by Paul3 on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 2:51 PM

If I understand the drawing correctly, you'll have a short circuit every time the toggle switches are out of synch.

Each Tortoise is a constant voltage "stall motor", meaning there's always electricity applied to the machine.  If you're using one pair of wires on two Tortoise machines from two DPDT toggles, you'll always have a short when one is one way and one is the other.

On every Tortoise & DPDT circuit, you must have a seperate pair of control wires between them.  At my club, we use 22AWG 6-cond. round phone cable.  That gives us not only power (2-wires), but also three wires for switch indication off the Tortoise machine's internal contact (plus a spare wire).  Some of our switches are located well over 20 feet away with no appreciable problem.  Sure, they more slower after 20 feet of 22AWG, but that's not an issue, generally.  The 16AWG you're using as shown seems a bit of an overkill.

Paul A. Cutler III

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 4,612 posts
Posted by Hamltnblue on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 2:45 PM

 The wiring doesn't look right to me. Did you leave something out?  Typically you would use a double pole double throw switch to change the polarity to the turnout to change direction.

Springfield PA

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 571 posts
Posted by hwolf on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 2:38 PM

No. I was just trying to make it easy.I figured by having two terminal with only one wire in between would save me a lot of work.  The reason for the distance is there is a Control Panel on one side and these turnouts are in the back.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • 2,751 posts
Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 2:30 PM

 I think your over complicating the installation one switch wired directly to one Tortoise as per their instructions  is all you need to do. The distance should not be of any concern.

May I ask why your mounting the switch so far from the turnout? Is it a question of having a central control panel or are these turnouts far back out of reach on the layout?

Pretty much the norm is to mount the switch with in close proximity of the turnout so you can operated the turnout while following the train around the layout.

Just my 2 cents worth, I spent the rest on trains. If you choked a Smurf what color would he turn?
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 571 posts
Problem with Tortouse
Posted by hwolf on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 12:27 PM

I think I am answering my own question as I am writing this post.

I am adding three Tortouse switches.  They are 10' from the panel so I used Two Terminal Strips one at each end.  When I hooked up the first one it worked fine.  When I hooked up the second one all the lights dimmed when I throw the switch.  Do I have to wire each Tortouse to the switch individually or can I use some of what I was trying to do and not have to run all that wire?

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!