Can you install a tortoise switch machine on an existing turnout without having to rip it out? I've already got ballast down and don't care to remove it.
Sure, although the safest way would be to use one of the alternative methods of linkage that don't need a big hole directly under the turnout - odds are pretty good that you'd mess it up trying to do that blind. One of the alternative linkage methods only needs a small hole between two ties a few ties away from the throwbar - you can drill that fromt he top and not worry about the safety of the turnout. You then bend the wire in a J shape witht he short leg in the throwbar hole and the long leg down the hole and under the benchwork.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Here is a picture of the topside of what Randy has described.
You do end up with a visible crank, but I find that you can hide it pretty well with paint. Here is the sanme turnout ballasted and painted:
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
It seems to me that no matter how you attack the problem, it is a time-consuming task.
For me, I bite the bullet and remove the turnout first, drill the hole, replace the turnout in-line, install the turnout, then re-ballast.
One solution is to use a drill bit in a pin vise to locate the necessary larger hole. Then use a 1/2" "key hole" drill adapter and make the larger hole from underneath the layout. That would work on a plywood base without disturbing the turnout if done carefully and properly, but I have never attempted that approach.
Rich
Alton Junction
If I were to do it again I'd remove the turnout or do an alternative linkage as randy pointed out. That's of course if you have the room available. I have 2 inches of foam on top of the base. To do mine I first took a long 1/8 inch drill bit and went straight down next to the point tie for a reference. I then slid a 4 inch putty knife between the turnout and roadbed to prevent the drill from damaging it. I thin drilled from underneath using a 1/2 inch bit slowly moving a little side to side to clear the foam from the tunout. A shopvac was used to clear the hole of foam and wood. It's time consuming but would have been faster if I simply took up the turnout first. Of course if it's ballasted (as a couple of mine were) It might be worth it to try with it on. I did 6 of them this way and they all turned out ok.
Springfield PA
I've never done this, but I've come close, as I installed all my turnouts before installing my Tortoises. When installing the Tortoises, I realized I hadn't made the actuator-wire hole large enough and had to work from underneath to enlarge it to prevent the wire from binding. I used a Dremel to accomplish that in a pre-drilled hole, and that was tedious enough.
I don't have nearly Randy or Guy's experience, but based on what experience I do have, if you don't want to remove the turnout and have to start from scratch, FWIW I'll offer these thoughts:
1. Centering the hole will be the problem. I use 1/2" ply subroadbed, and I don't believe a pin vise bit will be nearly robust enough to penetrate it. So I believe you'll have to mark the center point from underneath.
2. To do this, I'd center the throwbar and align a straightedge over it so you can mark two points on your subroadbed, one on each side of the turnout. Drill a small hole through the subroadbed at each point. Draw a line connecting the points underneath your subroadbed to mark the edge of the throwbar.
3. Measure up top and mark below the throwbar's center hole on that line. Since you've marked the edge, don't forget to indent the mark half the width of the throwbar.
4. Carefully measure the distance from the bottom of your subroadbed to the bottom of the throwbar. Subtract 1/8" for safety. Using a drill stop, drill a pilot hole that distance. Increase the distance carefully until you see the throwbar. Having an assistant watch from above will increase both precision and safety.
5. Enlarge the hole as required, with a drill stop, to complete the job.
Time consuming and tedious? Yes. It may actually take less time, and be more precise, to remove and reinstall the turnout or use an offset mount for the Tortoise as Randy and Guy have suggested. Circuitron was very helpful to me when I called with questions before I mounted my first Tortoise. I do believe you have lots of options in locating that motor.
Rick Krall
rrinkerOne of the alternative linkage methods only needs a small hole between two ties a few ties away from the throwbar - you can drill that fromt he top and not worry about the safety of the turnout. You then bend the wire in a J shape witht he short leg in the throwbar hole and the long leg down the hole and under the benchwork.
You have a picture of that? I'm not quite seeing it.
Driline rrinkerOne of the alternative linkage methods only needs a small hole between two ties a few ties away from the throwbar - you can drill that fromt he top and not worry about the safety of the turnout. You then bend the wire in a J shape witht he short leg in the throwbar hole and the long leg down the hole and under the benchwork. You have a picture of that? I'm not quite seeing it.
See Guy's post, that's the type of thing I'm talking about. If you have a soft surface like foam, drill the hole a bit bigger to fit a brass tube that the crank wire fits down through, otherwise the crank will gradually eat into the foam and pretty soon it won't actually work as a crank.
Underneath you put a 90 degree bend in the wire in any direction it's convenient - if there is a piece of benchwork or something in the way you don't have to put the Tortoise directly under the turnout like you do with the 'traditional' way of mounting one. If you want a good example, the Circuitron Remote Mount for the Tortoise works in just the way I've described - the remote connects tot eh Tortoise with an actuator cable, but the way the remote base unit connects to the turnout is with just such a J shaped link. Tthe included wire and tube aren't long enough to go through 2" of foam, but the concept is the same.
I can;t find any pictures of DIY versions of this, you don't need all that junk with the remote mount to make this. Just the wire, tube, and a block of wood to space the Tortoise down from the bottom of the layout.
rrinkerYou then bend the wire in a J shape witht he short leg in the throwbar hole and the long leg down the hole and under the benchwork. --Randy
You then bend the wire in a J shape witht he short leg in the throwbar hole and the long leg down the hole and under the benchwork.
I think I get it. You make the big hole a few ties away from the throwbar hole and just bend the link to fit in the throwbar hole.
Our club has done that replacing some older PFM machines. We have a scooter chair I call it which is like a mechanics creeper with a sloping back but you better be good doing this as it is quite a challenge working under a layout. A hard hat only gets in the way. I have a ball cap with high intensity LED's that helps a lot for viewing.
Planning ahead and maybe someone to pay attention up above is a good way to do this. By yourself is quite a challenge.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
DrilineI think I get it. You make the big hole a few ties away from the throwbar hole and just bend the link to fit in the throwbar hole
While there are several ways to do this the method we are talking about has no big hole at all. I can't think of an easy way to describe it in words. Here is a link to the switchmaster site that describes the linkage for use with their motors. While the motor mount is different, the linkage through the ties and to the throwbar is the same. Scroll to mid page, also click on the other installations page.
http://www.builders-in-scale.com/bis/sm-home.html
That's as good a picture as I could find. Exactly right, there IS no 'big hole' with this method, just a small one.
The big hole is when you do it the way I did, directly under the turnout. The hole wound up being between the size of a dime and a nickle.
If memory serve me correct Cody and David Pop did a segment on installing under table switch machines on turnouts that were already in place, I believe t might have been on "The Beer line" layout but don't quote me on that part. I can recall them using a fostner bit with one guy topside watching the turnout while the other drilled the hole. I did a search for it but didn't come up with anything. All I can remember is saying to myself was either these guys are nuts or they got some big one's attempting that..You always have the option of putting the Tortoise on top of the bench work and hiding it with a small building. It's been done more time then you would believe
If you do not need all of the features provided by the Tortoise switch machine, there is a good and quick alternative. Micromark sells www.micromark.com/SWITCH-TENDER-SWITCH-MACHINE,8394.html
If you install the crank as described by Randy, this machine permits a quick installation. Last week I replaced a bad switchmaster which had an already existing crank rod up to the throw bar. It took 5 minutes and I shed no blood in the process. The switch tender switch machine has a diagram on the back page of the instructions which shows how to retro fit it to an existing/ballasted TO.
Driline Can you install a tortoise switch machine on an existing turnout without having to rip it out? I've already got ballast down and don't care to remove it.
I've installed a few this way. It is a bit time consuming and not preferred. I do drill up from below the turnout. What I do is drill a tiny hole near the throw bar hole that the Tortoise throw rod is going to occupy. I drill this down from the top so as to ensure the proper location. Then, from the bottom, I drill upwards and use a drill stop on the bit. I adjust the drill stop to just get the bit through the plywood and only partially through the roadbed. I remove any roadbed material in the hole with an Xacto knife. Lastly, I mount the Tortoise. I've only had to do a few this way but it has worked.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/