Our club has replaced some old PFM machines with the Tortoise. All I did was drill a small hole at the rocker switch and install bi-color red/green 3mm LED's. I cut one lead going to the machine and spliced the LED in series with this one wire. The rocker type switches are on the fascia in the vicinity of the turnouts. With no power the LED's are clear.
I have used the same LED's in the past for our block signals. All we use is Red/Green. I could install a circuit that would make the LED look yellow but did not want the extra works as we are happy with the present setup.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
rrinker You can wire two DPDT toggles in series, one on each panel, but the lever position will not agree with the turnout in all cases (think of those "2 way" switches for the halllight at the top and bottom of your stairs). --Randy
You can wire two DPDT toggles in series, one on each panel, but the lever position will not agree with the turnout in all cases (think of those "2 way" switches for the halllight at the top and bottom of your stairs).
--Randy
Technically, for house wiring purposes, they are referred to a "3 way" switches, not 2-way, based upon the inner workings of the switches.
Alton Junction
You can wire two DPDT toggles in series, one on each panel, but the lever position will not agree with the turnout in all cases (think of those "2 way" switches for the halllight at the top and bottom of your stairs). You cna have 2 sets of LEDs in series witht he motor, the drop is then about 4 volts, so you might want to use a bit more than 12 volts as the source to keep the Tortosie around 9 volts.
Or you could use the contacts, with a power supply and suitable resistors for the LEDs. Rob Paisley has a simpel circuit on his page that uses pushbuttons to trigger the driver for the Tortoise, and happens to have LEDs with it as well. You could use this plus 2 pairs of buttons, one set on each panel, then there would be no confusion.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
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Hi Guys. You've covered most of the bases. I'll throw you a curve ball.
What happens if you are wireing the tortoise and you add another routing panel with the same
diagram on the other side of the room or across the table for dual operation of the same tortoise. Then do you
use the 234 or the 456 tabs to wire it? For sure you"ll you will know which way the points are routed.
You won't have to depend on visual for the points and the lights on the panel will show true direction if
wired right. Is this correct or not?
No, it doesn't matter. Here's a diagram from Tony's: http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/tortoise/wiring-leds.htm
They don;t have to be red and green LEDs, they can both be red, or green, or green and yellow or whatever colors you like, but there needs to be two of them. Or a single bicolor LED, which is just two LEDs hooked up like the diagram but in one case. The two wires marked "to control panel switch" go to the center terminals of the DPDT, assuming, again, that you have the corners wired in an X pattern and feed your power supply to one side.
If the toggle and LEDs match but the tortoise moves the wrong way, swap the wires goign to the Tortoise. If the LEDs and Tortoise agree but the toggle is the wrong way, reverse the wires at the toggle (or just spin it around ont he panel). If the toggle and Tortoise agree but the LEDs are backwards, reverse the conenctions to the LEDs, or just switch which hole in the panel each LED is mounted.
rrinker hwolf Randy Some of the other responses used RESISTORs. In yours do I need one? Also, I have not used LED's. Do they come in different voltages and if so what size are you referring to? Thanks By wiring the LEDs in series with the Tortoise motor, the TOrotise acts as the 'resistor'. Basic electronic principles say that multiple loads in a series share the same current, so if the Tortoise passes 15ma, then the LED gets 15ma as well - which is well within the maximum limit of typical LEDs, the red ones are usually rated at 20-25ma. LEDs are rated by the MAXIMUM current they can handle, less is OK. Also, voltage do vary somewhat but typical red LEDs drop 2.1 volts. That same basic electronics principle says that when loads are in series, the voltage adds. LEDs consume a fixed voltage, that's the forward voltage given on the package. Say 2.1 volts. With a 12 volt power supply, subtract the 2.1 volts of the LED and that leaves 9.9 volts for the Tortoise, which is plenty. The plastic holders I linked are for 5mm LEDs, those are the larger of the common sizes, the smaller being 3mm in diameter. 5mm is about 3/16", the holders are meant for a 1/4" hole with the LED clipped inside. If you build a new panel you could use 3mm LEDs and just drill a hole to fit them and secure them in place with some white glue. Or the same with 5mm LEDs. I made control panels with plexiglass and a printed diagram and I thought the holders made it look a bit nicer. A friend of mine just has the diagram and control toggles on the masonite fascia of his layout and we just put the LEDs directly in holes and used a dab of glue to hold them. Here's a shot of one of my panels: I used green LEDs for the main 'normal' route and yellow LEDs for the 'reversed' route. The camera angle and flash makes it look like only 3 LEDs are lit, but the two green LEDS along the line labeled 'West Main' are also on in that photo. Two of the toggles control crossovers, with two Tortoises operated by one toggle, the one on the lower right is an ordinary single-ended siding off the main. --Randy
hwolf Randy Some of the other responses used RESISTORs. In yours do I need one? Also, I have not used LED's. Do they come in different voltages and if so what size are you referring to? Thanks
Randy
Some of the other responses used RESISTORs. In yours do I need one? Also, I have not used LED's. Do they come in different voltages and if so what size are you referring to? Thanks
By wiring the LEDs in series with the Tortoise motor, the TOrotise acts as the 'resistor'. Basic electronic principles say that multiple loads in a series share the same current, so if the Tortoise passes 15ma, then the LED gets 15ma as well - which is well within the maximum limit of typical LEDs, the red ones are usually rated at 20-25ma. LEDs are rated by the MAXIMUM current they can handle, less is OK.
Also, voltage do vary somewhat but typical red LEDs drop 2.1 volts. That same basic electronics principle says that when loads are in series, the voltage adds. LEDs consume a fixed voltage, that's the forward voltage given on the package. Say 2.1 volts. With a 12 volt power supply, subtract the 2.1 volts of the LED and that leaves 9.9 volts for the Tortoise, which is plenty.
The plastic holders I linked are for 5mm LEDs, those are the larger of the common sizes, the smaller being 3mm in diameter. 5mm is about 3/16", the holders are meant for a 1/4" hole with the LED clipped inside. If you build a new panel you could use 3mm LEDs and just drill a hole to fit them and secure them in place with some white glue. Or the same with 5mm LEDs. I made control panels with plexiglass and a printed diagram and I thought the holders made it look a bit nicer. A friend of mine just has the diagram and control toggles on the masonite fascia of his layout and we just put the LEDs directly in holes and used a dab of glue to hold them. Here's a shot of one of my panels: I used green LEDs for the main 'normal' route and yellow LEDs for the 'reversed' route. The camera angle and flash makes it look like only 3 LEDs are lit, but the two green LEDS along the line labeled 'West Main' are also on in that photo. Two of the toggles control crossovers, with two Tortoises operated by one toggle, the one on the lower right is an ordinary single-ended siding off the main.
Randy,
You, and others, have suggested something that interests me. I have known that the Tortoise acts as a limiting resistor, but I have never thought about connecting one leg of the LED to the center lead of the DPDT and the other leg of the LED to one of the two leads on the DPDT coming from the Tortoise in order to eliminate the need for a resistor on the LED. Is that correct? Does it matter which lead you use on the DPDT for each leg of the LED?
Nice control panel, by the way.
Check out DeMar electronics for bi-colored 5mm LEDS, about 21 cents apiece. holders are about 16 cents. I bought my first one at RS, cost me $1.79.. If you use a dc transformer rated at 12v you don't need a resistor. just put the LED in line with one of the leads from the DPDT toggle and the Torti. Same thing if you decide to use two LEDS for each machine.
I use a DC transformer to power all of my Tortoises and LEDs. so each LED has a resistor soldered to oen leg.
Miniatronics makes a bi-color (red/green) LED and also a separate Red LED and a separate Green LED, in either 3MM diameter or 5MM diameter. The 5MM LED is approximately 1/4 inch so it would be nicely in your push button hole using an adaptor like the one that was previously shown or, even better, a metal one from Radio Shack:http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062559.
I prefer the LED to an incadescent bulb because the LEDs light cooler and last longer but limiting resistors are required, no big deal.
I like bi-color LEDs because you only need one per DPDT, but if you are trying to fill two holes left by the push buttons, then you can use a separate red and a separate green LED. Again, no big deal.
Check back to the photo of my control panel. I tried to show (1) the brightness of the LED and (2) the arrangement using single bi-color LEDs - - the photo of the control panel shows some straight thru in green and some divergent in red.
hwolf,
What are you going to use to power the Tortoises? A DC power pack? Or some other power source?
I assume you are removing the pushbuttons, leaving about a 1/4" hole. If so, LED holders like this one from Radio Shack http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062558 will fit in there. You cna get them cheaper from a supplier like Mouser, or you can get fancier ones with chrome trim if you really want to.
Wiring - well, it's tough to draw in text but if you are using a DC 12 volt power supply and DPDT toggles, I assume you have the DPDT switch wired for reversing, with the corners diagonally connected and power feedign one end and the Tortoise motor connected to the middle terminals.
To wire in 2 LEDs, connect them back to back. LEDs usually have one lead longer than the other to indicate polarity, also there is usually a flat spot on the base of the LED in case the leads have already been cut short. However you are able to identify the LED leads, connect the long lead of one led to the short of the other. COnnect the short lead of the first LED to the long lead of the second. Now disconnect one of the center wires on the DPDT toggle that goes to the Tortoise. Either one, it doesn't matter. Connect one of the combined LED leads to the toggle switch where you just removed the wire. Connect the other combined set of LED leads to the wire you just disconnected. Now one LED should light,a nd when you flip the toggle to move the Tortoise, the other LED will light. The active LED will be on dim while the Tortoise is moving and when it stalls it will brighten up.
If you are using 12V as the power source, the Tortoise will get about 10V after the LEDs. This is more then sufficient to move them and hold them in place.
For some reason the Links above did not take.
READ TEXT ABOVE. THANKS
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd51/Hwolf_photos/Best%20of%20Wolfcreek/IMG_3006.jhttp://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd51/Hwolf_photos/Best%20of%20Wolfcreek/IMG_3008.jpgpg
Above are the two images of the panel. Let's talk regular bulbs for a minute. As you can see the opening for the push buttons is probably 1/4". I think LED's might be to small. Even though I can tell the direction of the turnout by looking at the toggle I would like to have lights for effect. One Red & One Green that show routes. What wiring can I use for this? I am going to run two bus wires from a terminal strip near the panel to a terminal strip near the Tortoise's and then connect to and from the terminal strips. Am I going to create a problem with Voltage Drop? Your answers are greatfully appreciated.
What Randy said. Works great.
If you are using a DC power supply and DPDT switches to run the Tortoises, you can make another shortcut to wire up the panel lights. Run one of the wires fromt he DPDT switch right to the Tortoise. Run the other wire to a bicolor LED, or a pair of regualr LEDs, however you want to do your panel (single bicolor LED, the color tells you whichw ay the turnotu is aligned, a pair of regualr LEDs, only the lined route lights up, a pair of bicolor LEDS and the lined rout can be green while the other route shows red). Runthe wire from the other side of the LED to the Tortoise. No resistors needed, the Tortosie itself provides the current limiting you ALWAYS need with LEDs.
This is the LED that I use from Miniatronics: Model No. 12-240-05.
I buy them in packages of 5 and the package includes limiting resistors for the LEDs.
Miniatronics refers to them as 5mm Bi Polar.
Here is a shot of one of my control panels, sorry for the glare.
hwolf Sorry Rich. I am a little confussed . If I go across to both center post with both bulbs won't they both light at the same time. Also, I have not used LED's before. Do I need a certain voltage or does it matter? I want to use the bulb size to replace the holes that will be left when I remove the pushbottons.
Sorry Rich. I am a little confussed . If I go across to both center post with both bulbs won't they both light at the same time. Also, I have not used LED's before. Do I need a certain voltage or does it matter? I want to use the bulb size to replace the holes that will be left when I remove the pushbottons.
I use one LED per DPDT. It is bi-color, so when the DPDT is thrown one way it lights green, the other way it is red. I use the two-leg LED and I place a resistor between one leg of the LED and one of the center leads on the DPDT. The other leg of the LED is connected (soldered) to the other center lead of the DPDT. I use a 5mm LED from Miniatronics, don't know if that will fit in the hole from the push button. I power the DPDTs and LEDs off a DC transformer.
hwolf I am replacing my regular push botton turnouts with Tortoises using DPDT switches on the panel. In their instructions they take a wire from the Tortoises (which are far away) to the panel. My question is this. Why can't I go directly from the DPDT switch on the panel to the lights on the panel? When I throw the switch would that not shut one light and light the other light? If I am correct, a little wiring diagrahm could be a big help. Thanks in advance for yor help.
I am replacing my regular push botton turnouts with Tortoises using DPDT switches on the panel. In their instructions they take a wire from the Tortoises (which are far away) to the panel. My question is this.
Why can't I go directly from the DPDT switch on the panel to the lights on the panel? When I throw the switch would that not shut one light and light the other light? If I am correct, a little wiring diagrahm could be a big help.
Thanks in advance for yor help.
That's what I do. I have bi-color (red/green) LED's next to my DPDT's on the control panel. The two legs of each LED are simply soldered to the the center two leads on each DPDT.