I wouldn't say the 402 throttles were rushed out the door. We were running trains at the N Scale convention in June of 2008 with them. Found no problems there with 7 UR92's and a dozen DT402D's operating along with 16 UR91's and God knows how many simplex throttles. I know we had 95 slots running at one time on Sunday. (speeds were changing on the slot monitor). DT402D's and UR92's were sent home with several clubs for beta testing after the convention.
My understanding is the delay was caused by the move to 28 functions which was not a feature of those 402's we tried in 2008. Thank MRC for dumbing down their system to use functions to change things that were already being controlled by CV's up till then. The other manufacturers had to play catch-up.
DT400 series throttles were dropped because they have been replaced by 402 series throttles. 402's can be simplex radio or duplex radio. All models have infrared and can work tethered. The big changes were the jump to 28 functions and more importantly their firmware can be upgraded via computer by the user. That's the real reason the DT400 series was dropped. They are still supported for service and all models can be upgraded to any version of the new DT402's.
As far as problems with the new throttles. What I've seen are a relatively small group that have had some issues out of a Digitrax group with more than 9000 members. Definitely not a majority.
Martin Myers
Ditto. I'll also add that I am not too lazy to just press F2 for the horn to blow crossing signals, nor do I want farmyard sounds coming out of my loco, or train wreck sounds. Until someone can come up with a really useful need for 29 functions, it's nothign but a toy and marketing gimmick. It's a shame Digitrax had to givein and make the update, it takes us right back to the multiple button presses to do one thing era of the older small throttles like the DT100. The uninitiated complain about how many buttons there are on a DT400, but except for the flashlight there is nothign that needs two button presses, there is one function per button and one button per function. No shift-F2 garbage. Now to get 29 functions - back to shifting through multiple levels of functions. I defy anyone to remember what all 29 functions do on a specific decoder - the first few are real easy because at least with Digitrax throttles there are icons for lights, bell, horn, and coupler. I guess the icon for function 26 should be a cow or something. If I want cow or sheep noises I'll get one of those BLI stock cars so the sounds come from someplace other than my loco's tender.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I started out with a Digtrax Super Chief Radio with a DT100R throttle. I have recently upgraded to duplex and find that it works great with my existing simplex throttles (DT100R and DT300R). I sent my DT400R to Digitrax to be upgraded to a DT402D and purchased a new UT4D. They all work great. I also picked up a new DT400 on Ebay, dirt cheep, and sent it to Digitrax to be upgraded to a DT402D for much less than the cost of a new DT402D. I like the UT4D for its simple use.
As for the 28 functions. I don't need them. Horn and lights are it for me, as no ditch lights or flashing beacons for my modeling era.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
There is also a solution to that issue which is basically to turn off the the throttle's power save shutdown. And it doesn't happen to everyone, just some - so there's more to it than just "all 402 series throttles are defective"
Upgrade costs, per typical Digitrax policy, are the price difference between the products to begin with, ie, if the DT402D is $50 more than a DT402, the upgrade is $50. Downside of upgrading later is being without whatever it is you are upgrading for a few weeks when you send it in, but at least you don't spend more for waiting a while.
I focused my comments on the duplex end of the system, because that's what the OP asked about, and yes I was talking about the 400 series being discontinued, and one of the main bugs "TRK=IDLE" shutdown of the layout effects the entire 402 series, not just the D version. The only current surefire way to restart the system is by plugging in a 400 throttle to clear the command station Another bug seems to be some traffic volume issues with the duplex system in "Club" setups with several duplex throttles operating at once.
Our club has both a UR91 and UR92, as well as 2 UR90s, in the tower so everyone is covered
Yahoo DIgitax discussion group froum can be found here
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digitrax/?m=0
river_eagle...Digitrax's decision to jump in with both feet, and basiclly discontinue all the simplex throttles at the same time that the duplex throttles were released...
Why would you assume that every Digitrax user subscribes to a Yahoo user group just because you do?
I have no idea what bugs you are talking about. My Duplex system works perfectly. I have never cared about having 28 functions but some people do, so they are offered.
As far as compatibility is concerned, if you use the simplex throttles then you have the UR91. If you want more simplex throttles they are available. They have not been discontinued. In fact you can still have DT-400s converted to DT-402R. If you add the DT-402D you will need a UR92, but you do not have to remove the UR91. Both systems will work together with no interference.
My experience has been totally positive. I think the system is a giant step forward and I applaud Digitrax for offering it.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Blind Bruce I haven't heard much about the new DT402R and the UR-92 transmitters lately. I see a few if us have them already have them. How are they working out? I hear battery life is short. Would it be wise to buy all new or have my existing DT400 and UT4 updated?
I haven't heard much about the new DT402R and the UR-92 transmitters lately. I see a few if us have them already have them. How are they working out? I hear battery life is short.
Would it be wise to buy all new or have my existing DT400 and UT4 updated?
There should be no difference between buying new or having your existing equipment updated, except, of course, that you'll be without any existing equipment you send in while they are performing the conversion.
When the trailer my club's display layout was stored in was stolen in September,. some of the members began talking about using the rebuild process as an excuse to switch to duplex. Since the Operations Road Show layout was unaffected by the theft, I suggested that they hold off on that decision until I'd had some time to experiment with duplex a bit more on that layout.
I've been testing how well duplex works on the Operations Road Show layout since shortly after the UT402D was released in late June, then adding a UT4D when it was released last Fall. On the ORS layout, trains emerge from the Fiddle Yard already assigned to their throttles, and there really is no reason that a crew needs to make up or break down its own consists, so I was testing primarily two things in a scenario specific to how the ORS layout is run, which is a close match for how the rest of the club ran its display layout:
My conclusion was that the DT402D was useful for the hostlers in the Fiddle Yard, as it cut down on cord tangle when used in the confined space with two or three guys making up and breaking down trains. The UT4D's performance was identical to our simplex throttles for our road operations (our simplex throttles have been solid performers), and so gave us no compelling reason to convert the simplex throttles. If our crews needed to assign their own power while working a road or yard job, my conclusion on the UT4D would probably have been different.
The most significant observation was that the UR92 (duplex) receiver is just as susceptible to receiver location issues as the UR91 (simplex) or any radio receiver. Mounting it in the fascia at belly level where a lot of people congregate leads to the same sort of reception interference as the simplex receiver has in that sort of location. Mount it overhead, in our case on the same post as the UR91, and reception issues disappear.
The only annoying issues I've had with the DT402D were when the receiver was at an easily obstructed place across the room. Once the receiver was up on the post in a clear, overhead position, any problems went away. The DT402D's LED that flashes when there is a communication issue was very helpful in determining this.
My advice to my club was: Add a duplex receiver to the display layout if you want, but don't get rid of the simplex one, since several members own their own simplex throttles to use with the display layout. Don't bother to convert the club's throttles (UT4Rs) over- there's not enough benefit to justify the cost.
The only compelling reason I can think of that would change my advice for the club's display layout is if they were to start seeing radio interference issues from adjoining layouts at train shows. Then, they might be able to justify a mass conversion to duplex.
On the battery life front, I tend to get 8 or 9 hours' life out of each battery I use in the DT402Ds in the Fiddle Yard, but this is only used to make up and break down consists, and is not constantly changing speed or direction. Out "on the road", where the UT4D is sending and receiving much more often, I've been seeing four or five hour lifespans from fresh conventional alkaline batteries, which is considerably shorter than the lifespan on the UT4R.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
river_eagleIn my opinion, Digitrax's decision to jump in with both feet, and basiclly discontinue all the simplex throttles at the same time that the duplex throttles were released, was premature, seeing the the simplex and duplex radio systems are not compatable.
In my opinion, Digitrax's decision to jump in with both feet, and basiclly discontinue all the simplex throttles at the same time that the duplex throttles were released, was premature, seeing the the simplex and duplex radio systems are not compatable.
Ummm... Where did you get the idea that they're discontinuing all simplex throttles? That certainly isn't what I've heard from Digitrax (at Hartford last year) or any of the dealers I've spoken to.
There are several bugs yet to be worked out, but overall a decent system, but those bugs can be a real pain when they pop up. You can see those issues, over on the yahoo digitrax users group, so I won't relist them here.
Having 28 functions is great, but takes some getting used to, and honestly other than the few functions that allow you to change CV settings like volume, hardly ever get used.
The two-way radio feature has real possibilities, but right now, the only real advantage is not having to find the nearest port and plug in to perform some tasks.
An optional upgrade, for those that want Duplex , great, but to push an under tested system out the door as standard equipment, could hurt them in the long run.
Except for IR MODE, which is one way, simplex throttles do not work to the duplex receiver, and duplex throttles will not work with simplex receiver, If you have both types of throttles, you need both receivers, or to send all the old ones in to be upgraded, at a fee, of course.
Bruce, I can't respond about the DTrax part, but I do echo the idea of using rechargeables. I use two in my Canon Powershot because I would go through between two and four AA's a week otherwise, and I use four of them in our Harmony universal remote upstairs. While the initial investment is a bit steep, about the cost of six or seven four-packs of Duracell batteries, the cost is neutralized inside of maybe 10 recharges.
-Crandell
I purchased one DT-402D and after it arrived I had my DT400 and my granddaughters' UT4 converted. I bought 4 Powerex 9.6V 230mAh rechargeable NiMH batteries and the charger that is made for them.
Everything works fine. I turn the batteries over in the throttles when they are not in use, and they last a long time. When they do run down they recharge in a couple of hours.
73
Bruce in the Peg