Armour Yellow, I did test the loco on a DC layout, before installing a decoder. Although I did not test it at full throttle, I run it at 7 volts, at this voltage the loco was running at what seems to me about 50 mph and was draining 0,03 Amp. I figure it was running well enough on DC for me to go further and install DCC.
I was running it this afternoon on the club's layout, this time with all lights off. the overheating while still present seems less than with all lights on. If it is a faulty light board, the replacement is an easy task as it only snap on the structure.
Jack W.
In regards to the overheating, have you tried running the loco at full throttle w/o a decoder in DC mode? I have an ACe the runs perfectly up to 75% throttle, but after that the motor shorts out. Called MTH and was told this was common on earlier models and to mail it back. I just shipped it a few days ago, so I don't have it back to report anything new. MTH was very helpful and getting them to fix under warranty was a simple process. Good luck.
Now everything is not pure joy with MTH, the only one I have, a DCC ready SD70 ACe, had a few problems right out of the box.
First the shell was a nightmare to remove. The retainers tabs would not disengage no matter how hard I pushed outwards on these tabs they would not disengage. I finally took a screwdriver inserted between the shell and the walkway and yank the thing off, smearing the shell a bit in the process. Needless to say those tabs were cut off immediately to fix this problem. The easy part was to dismantle and reassemble the trucks
Handrails that wont stay put in their stanchions, stanchions that are out of plumb, missing grab iron on the top of the long hood. Yes I know it is and easy fix but I had to purchase special glue to fix what reminds me of old Athearn Blue Box handrails. This problem is common as I have seen it on others MTH SD70 ACe locos.
Lastly this DCC ready loco will overheat every decoders I installed so far and has already toasted an NCE decoder. (5 of them rated at 1.3 Amp continuous and 2 Amp stall). I am still investigating what is the cause, probably the light board or the motor. In any event I will take the matter with MTH reps at the West Springfield show coming next weekend
3 of these MTH SD70 Ace did not make the grade at the Chicago Museum of Science, one of them was retired after only 4 hours of operation (gears and motor problems) and the remaining did not last very long. In the meantime those awful Athearn SD70 ACe are merely earning their keeps on the same layout.
Otherwise I do like the loco, and hope to resolve the overheating problem soon.
I've had some problems setting CV's into a pair of SD70ACE locomotives that one of my fellow club members bought. We've tried to set the address off 03 on a dozen situations - the address change works while the loco has power - as soon as power is broken and then reapplied the loco's reset back to factory settings.
This was on both a Digitrax and NCE system with the same results every time. I've done similar models of the same loco type before successfully so something is clearly wrong with the decoder in the loco's.
Now the owner has to send them all the way back to the USA from Australia to be re-programmed - not a great result. Do MTH test their decoder batches to make sure they will program correctly.
Can't see myself buying one of these......
Tim
Harley-DavidsonWhat about MTH HO quality products, working in DCC systems? Are realiable? thanks
I have one of the their SD70ACes with sound and it is great. I really like the remote coupler control! I can access all the functions with my Digitrax 402D. The quality of the unit is superior in construction and sound to that of the new Athearn--IMHO. I buy a lot of Athearn, for example the latest Gas Turbine, but that SD70ACe of their's has problems--just check the other forums--I think they are coming out with a fix for the sound however. MTH also has a service dept that's easy to deal with--I called them before buying this loco since I liked Athearn's service group too.
The only issue is the lack of flexibility in the CVs as it is not really a DCC chip. It is DCS. But since it works great I've not really needed to spend the time changing things.
Richard
Hello Hamltnblue,
Thanks for replying even though I accidentally replied to the wrong post. Your info and links were helpful.
It turns out that my new MRC AA444 (aka Control Master 20) is more than adequate to meet my MTH power needs. The problem was one of my four MTHs had a defective motor and was shorting out my layout. I called MTH and they asked that I ship the defective loco to them for warranty repair.
Thanks again,
Zach
I think the DCC Ready experiment with MTH was a big step. Hopefully it went well and they consider doiing it with future releases. One thing that may have hurt it was Athearn's Release of the same loco.
Springfield PA
I have been very impressed with all of the MTH engines I have seen run. The quality is top notch.
I run DCC, but the day MTH comes out with a small 4-6-0 or 2-8-0, I buy 6, DCS and all. (unless it has a Belpaire firebox). - Nevin
MTH...i bought two mth locos ho scale sd70ace and a sd70-2 i was very disapointed then i could not programme the cvs that control the top and mid speeds as well as the acceleration and decelleration... i completely stuffed up one of my locos and mth repaired it for free....see my forum regarding mth and the good service i recieved
mth are verrrrry nice locos they pull great and look good.... if i could get them to speed match my other locos i would buy lots more
as to getting locos to run together straight out of the box.... you may be lucky to get a mth loco and have it run ok with a kato loco for example however i have found that by fine tuning with dcc i can get any loco to run ( allmost ) exactly the same
i have found that i can have 4 x new in box locos exactly the same and they will need to be programmed to match the speeds this could be due to more frictins tighter bearings etc
yes i do like mth can use them ...no would i buy more ...no peter
Here's a link to the manual if you don't have one: There's a warning about running HO on the G scale mode
http://www.modelrectifier.com/resources/trainsound/AA444.pdf
I'm not Dave but I'd suggest that you check the mode switch and voltage output. If you are on the mode for G scale you could damage your HO loco's. I think you want mode II or HO mode.
Hi Dave,
I really hope you can reply to this comment since you seem to be very knowledgable. Here's my issue: I own four MTH SD70ACes (DCC ready aka DC analog) and have a simple DC system. I was using an MRC Tech 4 260 transformer and couldn't consist more than two of them due to a lack of power. I figured I needed more power and just deployed a brand new MRC AA444 Controlmaster 20. Since the CM20 is famously powerful and used at many clubs, I thought I over-killed my lack of power problem. I tried running all four MTH locos and could only apply about 25% of the throttle (either mode, didn't matter) before the transformer kicked off due to overloading. I am using 14 gauge copper wire soldered to two separate feeder tracks. I honestly can't believe these locos can use over an amp each. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
SeadooChooChoo Hamltnblue, I saw your Photobucket photos of the Tsunami install. I received my MTH CSX SD70ACe a few weeks ago. It is DCC-ready & I'd like to have a DCC (motor &) sound decoder installed. I'm not familiar with an Tsunami products. Which Tsunami decoder would I need to order to get the prototypical motor & horn sounds that this loco should have? Thanks for your help.
Hamltnblue,
I saw your Photobucket photos of the Tsunami install. I received my MTH CSX SD70ACe a few weeks ago. It is DCC-ready & I'd like to have a DCC (motor &) sound decoder installed. I'm not familiar with an Tsunami products. Which Tsunami decoder would I need to order to get the prototypical motor & horn sounds that this loco should have?
Thanks for your help.
I used the TSU-1000 EMD 710. You will also need to get an 8 pin connector and solder the wires for your application. The DCS version has polarity issues when changing decoders to DCC but yours should be no problem since it was made DCC ready.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami/1000.php
johngriffey18ca1 I wouldn't say MTH prices are astronomical. Or take into account my 2 MTH Steam engines. I paid $519.00 for my Challenger 3985 but it is die cast and is great sounding. I paid $389 for the SP Daylight 4449, but BLI wants about the same for their version of teh 4449.
I wouldn't say MTH prices are astronomical. Or take into account my 2 MTH Steam engines. I paid $519.00 for my Challenger 3985 but it is die cast and is great sounding. I paid $389 for the SP Daylight 4449, but BLI wants about the same for their version of teh 4449.
Whenever I look at MTH's prices I balk. They are typically listed in the MSRP $400->$500 range or more. Add to this they have a MAP (minimum advertised price) and that dealer margins are quite low (told to me by a shop owner) it's no wonder I rarely see much of a discount on them.
I looked at their Berk's. I wanted one for my C&O fleet. Even with places that do offer discounts, it's significantly more expensive then fully working QSI P2K Berks, or Bachmann berks with a post sound install. And the details are all wrong on the MTH version. (the P2K, and Bachmann berks have incorrect pilots, but the details on the MTH C&O Berks are just way wrong.)
I both cringe and look forward to when they make the C&O H-8 2-6-6-6. (They did it in O scale, and RR/Hornby doesn't sound like they are going to make any more any time soon.) I know MTH's are built well, but I fear the price and detail errors.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Thank you, sir.
I picked up my first DCC ready MTH Norfolk Southern SD70M-2 yesterday. I have the same model, different road number, with Protosound 3.0 . Once I get a DCC sound decoder installed in the new unit, I'll be able to do some side-by-side comparisons. My main complaint so far with the Protosound 3.0 unit is the lack of CV29 support. I am living with it but it is a pain. I plan to get the sound decoder, likely a QSI Revolution, installed in the next few. days. I'll report back.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Welcome to the Forums Armour Yellow
I have KATO and MTH and I think MTH is the better value. They're solid, heavy and detailed (not to mention AVAILABLE, unlike KATO).
Hamltnblue I wouldn't stay away from a product because of couplers. I simply changed MY SD70's to Kadees and was done with it. MTH recognizes this which is why they include a standard knuckle coupler in the box. They also thought ahead and included the screw hole of the coupler box.
I wouldn't stay away from a product because of couplers. I simply changed MY SD70's to Kadees and was done with it. MTH recognizes this which is why they include a standard knuckle coupler in the box. They also thought ahead and included the screw hole of the coupler box.
Hamltnblue, I do not use DCC or sound, and the couplers are just one more high tech item I do not wish to pay for just to remove/disable.
So far, very few of the locos MTH has offered fit my layout scheme or would ever be on my want list.
But for any future release to be considered, it would have to be offered DC (Commonly known these days as DCC ready).
I was very impressed with your DCC installation you posted a while back, but again I personally would not spend MTH prices to then remove the sound/DCS.
I model the early 50's, so the SD70 is of no personal interest, the only MTH loco so far offered in DC.
Sheldon
Dave, thanks for the info.
I currently have Genesis, Intermountain, Proto2000 F units, and one ABBA set of stealth PCM F3's bought cheap on closeout. The PCM's are nicely detailed, and as I commented, one of the few diesel offerings from BLI/PCM up to my detail standards. After having "sampled" a lot of the F units out there, I have decided that any future F units on my layout will all be Intermountain or Genesis based on selection (especially of undecorated models since I freelance), running qualities, available non DCC/sound and detail.
I am a big Proto2000 fan but they have choosen to change their gear ratio and their undecorated F7's only come in the later "no skirt" body version.
I know this will sound picky, but another thing that will keep me from MTH is the DCS controlled couplers. I go to great lengths to couple all my equipment as close as possible for a realistic appearance on my 36" radius and larger curves. I have seen the MTH coupler with its grossly extended length/shank/coupling. No thank you. Again, why pay money for things I would remove/disable?
Again, like smoke and sound, since these features cannot be more realistic and cannot be universally applied to all the equipment on my layout, I feel the realism of my models and overall layout is higher without these features.
Trains don't just uncouple at the loco, so what benifit is that to my operational scheme?
So when Mike decides he wants to sell trains to the "other" half of the model train market, I might take a look.
And don't feel too bad about my dislike of MTH, I pick on Broadway Limited for their poor marketing choices as well.
Hi Sheldon,
CZ is correct. MTH did get F3 tooling in their settlement with Korea Brass (aka Model Korea Trading Co.) over stolen drawings and production schedules for 3-rail O-gauge products.
For anyone who's interested, last month I got to take a tour of MTH's Maryland headquarters while attending the York, PA, train show. During the tour I spotted these test shots from the tooling on a shelf along side PA's and FA's.
Notice one of the B-units has a steam generator and one doesn't. Both of the A-units had MTH's remote operating couplers.
The first of MTH's F3's off the PCM tooling are due out in time for Christmas. They announced F3 R-T-R starter sets with track, transformer, two freight cars, and a caboose in their 2010 R-T-R sets and accessories catalog. They're offering DC versions of the sets at an MSRP of $140 and Protosound 3 DCC versions for $200. However, the sets catalog doesn't mention the set engines having the remote operating couplers. I suspect the engines in the photo are not quite will be in the sets. One neat item included in the sets is an ultra stripped down version of DCS that includes an IR remote control. It doesn't give access to all the engine's features, but it does give access to the 1 step = 1 smph speed control on any DC layout. The controller is also a separate sale item for $40.
I own a mixture of all common brands of locos and they all are adequate performers for the most part. The MTH products I own are superior to many other brands regarding quality control = fit, finish & function. Their priceing is very competitive for the performance and I have not had one problem with any of the 8 MTH engines I own. Most other brands I have, had problems of some sort or another, every so often. It is true that MTH has limited access to CV's in DCC mode but I have not found this to be a big issue. I just run MTH engines with other MTH engines and no problem is encountered. You can always adjust other brands CV's to match the MTH if needed. It just is not that big a deal in my case. For about $130.00 you can buy a DCS converter box to hook into your DCC system and switch it in or out as needed, to run full function MTH features. MTH is now offering some engines with an NMRA socket and no decoder or sound so you can install what ever decoder and sound you prefer. Are they worth the money? You betcha'. Are other brands competative with MTH? Yes, but you get what you pay for in most cases. Other manufacturers have many more product offerings and therefore more quality issues due to mass production but they all do a great job considering the amount of product they produce. Atlas, BLI, Athearn Genesis, Proto 2000 & Herratage steam (Walthers) are all good products. I run them all side by side with MTH using my Digitrax DCC system. The very best quality engines I run are the German, Trix brand that have the best quality drive system I have seen from anyone. The down side with Trix is product availability and US prototype offerings. They are also more expensive than most, but again, you get what you pay for. I enjoy all of the engines I own.
Hamltnblue cndash9 Hamltnblue The only time you'll have problems with them is if you do an advance consist or if you try to mix them with another manufacturers loco's. You have to admit though, the SD70 looks out of place running alone. Not completely true. Here is my CN loco running with my Tower 55 decodered with an NCE DASR. I didn't do any modifications at all, it was MUed with a Digitrax Zephyr system. It ran beautifully. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJbWwVarO6Q Good To see you got a match. make sure they're close enough in speed when detached though or you'll chance burning one of them up. Did you use the old style consist or just program them to the same address?
cndash9 Hamltnblue The only time you'll have problems with them is if you do an advance consist or if you try to mix them with another manufacturers loco's. You have to admit though, the SD70 looks out of place running alone. Not completely true. Here is my CN loco running with my Tower 55 decodered with an NCE DASR. I didn't do any modifications at all, it was MUed with a Digitrax Zephyr system. It ran beautifully. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJbWwVarO6Q
Hamltnblue The only time you'll have problems with them is if you do an advance consist or if you try to mix them with another manufacturers loco's. You have to admit though, the SD70 looks out of place running alone.
The only time you'll have problems with them is if you do an advance consist or if you try to mix them with another manufacturers loco's. You have to admit though, the SD70 looks out of place running alone.
Not completely true. Here is my CN loco running with my Tower 55 decodered with an NCE DASR. I didn't do any modifications at all, it was MUed with a Digitrax Zephyr system. It ran beautifully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJbWwVarO6Q
Good To see you got a match. make sure they're close enough in speed when detached though or you'll chance burning one of them up.
Did you use the old style consist or just program them to the same address?
Just punched in the lead unit 8010 and then the rear unit 7789 and bingo. Nothing fancy.
cndash9Hamltnblue The only time you'll have problems with them is if you do an advance consist or if you try to mix them with another manufacturers loco's. You have to admit though, the SD70 looks out of place running alone. Not completely true. Here is my CN loco running with my Tower 55 decodered with an NCE DASR. I didn't do any modifications at all, it was MUed with a Digitrax Zephyr system. It ran beautifully. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJbWwVarO6Q
ATLANTIC CENTRALI'll take my Proto2000 FA's over any BLI diesel, except maybe the PCM F3's, now long gone - does MTH have that tooling?
It is my understanding that MTH received the tooling for the F3's also in the lawsuit against the Korea builder. MTH will probably do those when the market it good for F units again. One problem that I have with the PCM F units is the number boards. The insert plate sticks out from the number boards instead of being recessed. It is not any easy fix, but it can be improved. If you want some to paint up, I have several undecorated ones that I will not be using.
CZ
CAZEPHYRYou might be right on the "no better detail", but the pictures I have seen of the Athearn model is extremely better detailed if you look close and it is correct in many areas the present MTH model is not correct. The MTH do look nice overall but they took some short cuts with detail.
This seems to be typical for MTH and BLI/PCM. They seem to skimp on finer details OR make them over sized or molded on to make them more "rugged" and/or handling friendly. Or, is it they have spent the money on the sound and had to skimp somewhere?
Compare a diesel cab unit diaphragm on a BLI diesel to a Proto2000 diesel, even a Proto2000 diesel from 15 years ago has better detail than most BLI models - just one example.
I'll take my Proto2000 FA's over any BLI diesel, except maybe the PCM F3's, now long gone - does MTH have that tooling?
I'll take finely detailed fragile models over "handling friendly" less detailed, especially since finely detailed seems to cost less, or at least no more.
Still happy with all my Bachmann, Athearn Genesis, Intermountain and Proto2000 locos.
johngriffey18ca1 I wouldn't say MTH prices are astronomical. For example, I paid $209.00 each for all 9 of my MTH SD70ACe's. Now the MSRP is $249.95 however Athearn is releasing their SD70ACe's which will be of no better detail/sound/features for an MSRP of $289. Athearn is obviously more expensive. Or take into account my 2 MTH Steam engines. I paid $519.00 for my Challenger 3985 but it is die cast and is great sounding. I paid $389 for the SP Daylight 4449, but BLI wants about the same for their version of teh 4449. I love MTH, and it can run fine on DCC. You can't mess with CV's like on most other manufacturers but that's not my cup of tea anyway. I can raise and lower the volume and use different horns with one of the functions, so I'm a happy man with MTH.
I wouldn't say MTH prices are astronomical. For example, I paid $209.00 each for all 9 of my MTH SD70ACe's. Now the MSRP is $249.95 however Athearn is releasing their SD70ACe's which will be of no better detail/sound/features for an MSRP of $289. Athearn is obviously more expensive. Or take into account my 2 MTH Steam engines. I paid $519.00 for my Challenger 3985 but it is die cast and is great sounding. I paid $389 for the SP Daylight 4449, but BLI wants about the same for their version of teh 4449. I love MTH, and it can run fine on DCC. You can't mess with CV's like on most other manufacturers but that's not my cup of tea anyway. I can raise and lower the volume and use different horns with one of the functions, so I'm a happy man with MTH.
You might be right on the "no better detail", but the pictures I have seen of the Athearn model is extremely better detailed if you look close and it is correct in many areas the present MTH model is not correct. The MTH do look nice overall but they took some short cuts with detail.
The price you got them for is excellent and they do run well from what I have read.
And speaking of the SD70Ace, this is the 1982 today in Loomis Ca.
Colfax, Ca