Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Wye Tortoise Wiring

3865 views
8 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 76 posts
Wye Tortoise Wiring
Posted by seaside on Sunday, April 4, 2010 7:51 PM

I read somewhere that you can use a relay and a diode or two instead of an auto-reverser for controlling track polarity through a wye with Tortoise switch machines.  If this is true, can someone provide a circuit diagram?

Thanks in advance,

John

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: Enfield, CT
  • 935 posts
Posted by Doc in CT on Monday, April 5, 2010 8:26 AM

 You may need a relay as well.  There is a diagram and explanation on Allan Gartner's web site that will help.  The WYE discussion precedes the one for the Tortoise.

Alan

Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Monday, April 5, 2010 3:45 PM

  The Tortoise motor has a full set of DPDT contacts that can be utilized - the 'catch' is that they only have about a 1 amp rating.  As 'Doc' mentioned, you can use an external relay with heavy duty contacts as shown in the link 'Doc' provided.

  That said, I did wire a wye just using the Tortoise contacts.  All I did was 'turn' engines(15" tail track), and they were stopped when I threw the turnout.  I never burned out the contacts, but replaced that 'Wye' with a nice Walthers 90' TT a few years ago!

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, April 5, 2010 6:09 PM

 If it's a turning wye especially, there can only be 1 or maybe an MU set of diesel locos on the tail track at a time, and they will be stopped when the contacts move - a loco with decoder with the motor not running but maybe the lights on only draws a few ma, so the Tortoise contacts should be plenty robust to handle things. At least if we're talking HO or smaller here.

                                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Warren, MI O scaler
  • 553 posts
Posted by el-capitan on Tuesday, April 6, 2010 4:20 PM

 I use the tortoise contacts on my Oscale layout that routinely pulls 5 amps. They work great as long as you are not throwing the switch beneath a loco. Even then they might work fine but I have never done it. (from what i have heard) the 1 amp rating only refers to the amount of current that can pass through while the turnout is being switched. Since we typically throw the switch long before the train gets to the frog, this is not an issue.

 Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:

Deming Sub Deming Sub

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 76 posts
Posted by seaside on Wednesday, April 7, 2010 9:26 AM

Thank for the responses.  I reviewed Allan Gartner's link but don't see any diagram using the Tortoise internal switches.  The tail of my wye goes to a stub yard, which, in the future, I might reconnect to the layout.  My understanding is that that will likely require a "real" auto-reverser.

Since I do not want the stub yard to shut down while switching, can I still use the relay and diode?  If I elect to use the internal switches on the Tortoise, how do I wire this?

John

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, April 9, 2010 8:29 AM

I would be concerned with the "switching time" using a mechanical device like a Tortoise.  A solid-state auto-reverser, like the Tony's Trains ones, will only take milliseconds to flip over.  The trains don't even notice this.  A mechanical switch, on the other hand, is probably going to take hundreds of milliseconds, which may not sound like a lot, but it's enough to shut down some decoders and cause them to cycle back up again.  A relay is somewhere in between.

If you have a sound engine, you'll notice the shutdown.  If your engine is moving, it will stop, and then slowly come back up to speed, particularly slowly if you have a lot of momemtum programmed in.

As was mentioned, this doesn't matter as much if the engine is already stopped, as it would be on a turning wye, but if you're feeding an operating yard it might be undesireable.

Does anyone know what the electrical switching time of a Tortoise is like?

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • 327 posts
Posted by locoworks on Sunday, April 11, 2010 3:10 AM

a tortoise switch time is dependent on the voltage used, but even at the quick end it is way too slow to use the contacts for flipping/switching power and expecting a sound engine not to notice.   best method would use an ARM to deal with polarity issues of the loop or wye track, and just use the  torty for moving blades and switching only frog polarity, though on a loop the frog is always the same as the loops inner rail so no irj's are needed on the inner loop and the frog could be back fed from the loop if the electrical timing is correct or the point is 'dcc friendly' electrically so that blade possition ( in contact with a stock rail ) has no effect on frog polarity.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 76 posts
Posted by seaside on Monday, April 12, 2010 7:51 AM

I agree that an auto-reverser is the way to go.  The incremental cost increase over a diode and relay will likely be worth it and if I decide to connect the other end of the stub yard back to the layout, I'll be covered.

Thank you all.

 John

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!