Hello everyone. I am extremely new to this so please bear with me. I am going to build a layout in an extra room in my house and maybe into other rooms via shelves along the wall. I would like to run multiple engines and multiple engines on the same load. what DCC program would be good and cheap(around $100 or so been looking at MRC's prodigy express) for mutiple locomotives. I purchased a Bachmann throughbread DC set not know much but I do like the E-Z track. I have no idea on the decoders?? if I can use my track I have how do you connect the DCC to said track. as i said i am very new any advice will help. Thank you ahead of time. and i want functions like ditch lights beacons and so forth. and actually everything in general before i waste money again and upset the wife when i buy a bunch more LOL.
EDIT: I need help with everything DCC overall i.e good cheap DCC sound locomotives and so forth thanks again
Hi
Start with Tony's Train Exchange DCC Primer ; for more information I would suggest DCCConcepts's DCCadvice pages and Allan Gartner's Wiring for DCC
Based on everything said in this forum, you will likely be happier with a starter system from DigiTrax or NCE. They are affordable and very expandable.
Wiring DCC is not much different than wiring DC layouts, just a matter of where the power comes from (at least in simple layouts). EZ-Track is no different than any other trackbed track or regular track in that regard.
Most of today's locomotives are DCC ready, that is they have plugs for DCC decoders and are correctly wired internally for DCC. You can mix and match decoders and systems although it is better for one's sanity to stick with one or the other system for problem solving.
(I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "cheap" or inexpensive DCC equipped sound locomotive although there is a price range.)
Keep asking questions.
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
I second everything Allen said and will add the following:
KillerKapricewhat DCC program would be good and cheap(around $100 or so been looking at MRC's prodigy express) for mutiple locomotives.
When buying a DCC system it does not make good sense to spend much less than the cost of one locomotive. Many prefer to spend a little more on a system that is expandable if you really want to get into multiple trains, sound, and so on. I started with a Digitrax Zephyr and expanded and added to it a little later. Certain other brands allow expansion, but not all.
"I need help with everything DCC overall i.e good cheap DCC sound locomotives and so forth thanks again"
Your second post mentions you want good cheap DCC sound locomotives. That is an oxymoron! There is no such thing. There are cheap sound decoders but most agree they are not very good. A decent DCC sound locomotive is in the $150-250 range, asuming you are talking HO scale.
Model trains are a lot of fun and you can add to your layout a little at a time. It may pay in the long run to buy less quantity and more quality. That way you can really end up with what you wanted in the first place. Read the links and have fun!
Killer, the main differences with DC and DCC, DCC uses more wires than a simple DC oval starter kit like you have now. Wiring is far from being hard, just more of it. If you read any of the links you should be in good shape as far as wiring goes.
On the E-Z track, some people here like it. My self, I prefer flex track. Cost less and you can make it fit anywhere any sizes you need. There is a learning curve to making turns, but again not hard.
Far as DCC systems, I would go with a Digitrax Zepher. Cost is around $160.00 but it can do anything you might want and them some.
Far as a good cheap DCC engine with sound? Well, after your first $320.00 engine $160.00 seems cheap. My self I have 3 Blue Line engines by Broadway Limited, they come DC with sound and you add your own motor decoder. (simple plug in) With decoder you are around $160.00 with some shopping.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Thanks guys for all you info. So far I have been reading modelrailroader and I have been looking at flex track, but am not completly understanding the whole gauge system.Seems 83 is good??? note: when i type that i'm cocking my head sideways like a dog. And yes i keep forgetting to mention it's an HO system. So basicly almost any track will work with any DCC system correct? again insert dog motion. I looked at the NCE system and it says in HO form it can only handle 3 locomotives thats the bare minimum engines i want to run on one load so thats kind of ins. the zephyr looks good still don't understand decoders all that much yet. But I'll see if I get it right you can by a loco that is either DCC equiped , DCC ready and DC and all with or without sound? yes or no? Also reading the Zephyr manual and I'm starting to understand it. But I do not know how many trains I can run? Again thanks again for all your help. Also where is a good place to buy bulk flex track for cheap and any info on some good electronic switches or manual witchever is better. like I say just trying to get my moneys worth and after paying $100 for this DC oval starter set i'm not wanting to get ripped of again. Thanks for everyones info and all future info thanks again.
KillerKaprice
P.S. sorry for so long of a response major comp. issues
KillerKapricenot completly understanding the whole gauge system.Seems 83 is good???
That is code 83, and not the gauge...HO or N or O are the gauges, meaning the spacing between the rails, and therefore how long axles can be for a given tire profile. The code means the height of the rail in thousandths of an inch, representative of the different weights of real rail per yard. Code 83 comes out to about 130-ish pound rail, about as robust as it comes these days.
KillerKapriceany track will work with any DCC system correct?
Yup, if it is of any quality and assembled so that there is continuity between lengths. We all soon learn that the metal joiners are largely for alignment, and eventually do not transmit power reliably. We solder thin 22 gauge feeder wires up the web of the rails, with the other end of those feeders tapping into a heavier wire bus leading out from the power source.
KillerKapriceyou can by a loco that is either DCC equiped , DCC ready and DC and all with or without sound? yes or no?
It used to be that "DCC ready" meant nothing, as some unimpressed users soon found when they removed the shells of their new engines. Now, five or six years into this process in manufacturer history, they almost always mean that the motor does not come in contact with the frame, and that there is a tether wired in for your convenience...plug and play the decoder. With some variance here and there, of course. If an engine is described, as Bachmann does, "DCC on board", it means it has a rudimentary decoder that controls lighting and engine motion. "Sound" means just that...a more costly installation requiring a speaker and a sound decoder....usually another $80 all up, sometimes more.
In any case, an evening of surfing/shopping will probably save you the cost of shipment at least, and often much more. Look around.
KillerKapriceI do not know how many trains I can run?
Count on about 0.2 - 0.3 amps per non-sound engine, depending on age and condition/engineering and quality, and about 0.3-0.5 amps, give or take, for most sound equipped engines. Add some for heavier trailing 'tonnage' and steep grades with any substantial tonnage. If you double engines due to work loads, remember to double your requirements. For the majority of us, 3 amps is about the least we'll need if we have friends over also running trains. Often, though, by ourselves, 1.5 amps does nicely.
-Crandell
Yeah sorry didn't notice i had put gauge haha. cool that informed me of a lot. as of this very moment my main thing i want to do is get some track and about 2 locos now knowing i can run my one dc train on digitracks system with my DCC locos. and build a yard and one or 2 tracks going around. my oval doesnt even have turnouts. And I can't wait to start switch cars and so forth. Thank you again. Very good info Crandell
Killer, think of the decoder as ECM that your car uses. The decoders tell your engine how fast to run, slow down, speed up, direction, lights and sounds to make if it is a sound decoder. You can change how the decoder works by changing the Control Values (CV's) with most DCC systems.
Far as the Zepher, I did try one here at the house and ran 6 to 8 engines. Some had sound so there is a good amount of power. Older engines say 6 years old and older can use more power, so ask before you buy. I have some from the 70's that can draw up to 1.0 amp, around 3 times more than current engines.
Far as code 83, many people like the way it looks, more realistic. I use code 100, at my Local Hobby Shop (LHS) it is cheaper than code 83 and they stock more code 100 turnouts and parts.
Yes, you can run a DC engine on some but not all DCC systems. The Digitrax Zepher is one of them that will run DC engines.But don't stop the engine and park it on live rails (powered) it will cook the motor in short order. Running is fine, sitting is bad.
Two good places to shop on line.
http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/StoreFront
Ulrich Models customer support is 5 stars! None is better!
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=dynamis&Search.x=8&Search.y=12
Never bought from them, but have heard nothing but good about them.
Hope I was of some help.
Cuda Ken,
Thank you for the awesome info. Been looking at decoders and I think I'm starting to get it. I hope it looks like I choose what sound i want for the decoder and the speed steps and features. But If I buy a loco that is DCC equip. with sound. I don't need a decoder or do I. again thanks for your help Ken and everyone elses. Also How difficult is it to make turns with the flex track?
KillerKapriceBut If I buy a loco that is DCC equip. with sound. I don't need a decoder or do I.
There are three types of 'decoders'. One is a basic stationary one that helps to operate turnouts (switches) remotely, for example. It is mounted somewhere on the layout...stationary.
The second is as I described in my last post...a basic motive one meant to provide you, the user, with lighting control depending on direction of motion of the engine, and motor control for speed, direction, and momentum/acceleration effects.
The last type of decoder is a sound decoder, and until recently they included the second type. So, they provided your engine with sounds, but also controlled lighting and motive power. In the past three years, Broadway Limited Imports, one of the premier steam manufacturers, introduced their BlueLine series of engines which have a sound decoder, but they are strictly DC engines as you buy them...not meant for DCC layouts. That is to say, the decoder is present, but controls sound only. There is no DCC motor control because the decoder is sound...only. Many purchasers of these engines add a $20 TCS or NCE decoder to control the motors, and they end up with a DCC engine with dual decoders. Never been very keen on that idea, myself.
So, to answer your question, if it isn't already clear, an engine purchased with "DCC/sound" needs nothing more. It has the sound decoder with motive control capability. Such decoders include the vaunted QSI/Quantum sound decoders, such as the Revolution, and the Sountraxx 'Tsunami' series. There are others.
Please do not purchase an engine with an MRC sound decoder.
No, really. Don't do it...you'll very likely be unhappy.
KillerKapriceAlso How difficult is it to make turns with the flex track?
It is a bit tricky at first, but if you desire to master it, and you should for good smooth trackwork, it is done with time, practice, and determination. Practice is the key, and that can be done at a clear work space that is level and flat. Use good light, and practice laying two pieces of flex on a piece of 3/8" plywood or on a wide pine/spruce plank. Learn what happens to the sliding rail. Learn how to nip what you can't use and to make good joins. Learn how to solder the joiners in place so that they act as strong anchors to help maintain a constant radius along the curve you need to fashion with the flextrack.
It isn't rocket science. It just takes some patient learning, including from some mistakes. Nothing is permanent, and the mistakes won't break the bank. Tear up what doesn't work and start over.
Remember to test each section that you lay. Power up the tracks with alligator clips to the rails from your power source and run an engine back and forth. Best to build on solid trackwork as you go along than to find a serious flaw buried way back...over there.
I cannot believe I spent half a hour and wiped out the posting?
On making turns with Flex Track, scale of 1 easy to 10 hard, first time I did it, it was a 8. But, I was using a hack saw and had no idea what I was trying to do. I now rate it as a 3. Here is a link to rail nippers.
http://www.micromark.com/XURON-TRACK-CUTTER,9199.html Made cutting track a lot simpler.
If you look on You Tube you will find some good videos on laying flex track, road bed and adding ballast. (ballast is the rock)
On Blue Line Engines, as Crandell my friend stated they are sound DC engines. I have 3 of them and love the sound and pulling power. Here is a link to Ulrich Models.
http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-Locomotives--dsh--HO-Scale-cln-Broadway-Limited-cln-Diesel/Categories
I uses Digitrax decoders with BMEF so add $25.00 and you are looking at $115.00 for a DCC sound engine. Last time I spoke with Steve he will install a none sound decoder for free. Changing CV on the Blue Line take a little more effort with 2 decoders but not that hard.
Far as adding a sound decoder to a DCC Ready or DCC none sound engine, it can be done. But, it is like sticking a 350 Belly Button motor (I am a Mopar Guy) into a Vega. It will fit but will take some hacking and whacking to get it done. It could cost more as well. Say you get a $90.00 engine, $135.00 sound decoder and $10.00 for speaker and it enclosure you have $235.00 in a engine you have to build. If you have to have sound, I would stick with engine that come with sound.
I also found sound is over rated for my self. More than 2 sound engines at the same time gets on my nerve's.
One last thing, if you ask two different Model Rail Roader the same question, you will get 2 different answers.
Your Big Block Mopar friend, Cuda Ken