Thoughts about programming track

[mobilman44]

Hi!

Although I've only been into DCC for just over a year, I soon came of the opinion that - in my case - two programming tracks are desireable.  The first one is a 3 ft. test track on a 1x4 that I use for testing (via rollers) after maintenance, etc.  The second one will be an isolated (electrically) siding on the near side of the loco terminal on my under construction HO layout. 

The layout programming track will be used for minor stuff like plugging in consisting or loco IDs and the like.  The portable one will be used in the PC/Hobby room for programming via computer and/or more complicated stuff (a lot I have yet to learn).

Also, the portable one is used now on the layout as the permanent one is one of the last bits of trackage to be installed.

For what its worth....

Mobilman44

[rrinker]

 You're confusing the operation of the Super Empire Builder system (and any other system that doesn't have a program track output) with Ops Mode. Ops mode ONLY writes to a specific address (unless you dial up address 0, at least with Digitrax). However, with a SEB if you select a program mode OTHER than Ops Mode it WILL turn the entire layout into a program track and program them all. Other systems with no program track connection behave similarly. NCE came out with an automatic switch which will disconenct the main track when the system goes into program mode - this will work with Digitrax as well. I heartily recommend such a device if only to prevent accidents.

 Readback is overrated - how often do you really need to know the current value of a CV? If you are programming a loco it's because whatever's in there currently isn't what you want/need.

 The TRUE advantage of a proper current limited program track is for testing new installations without frying decoders. If it won't program/read on the program track, it's not wired properly so do NOT put it on the full power main track.

                                              --Randy

 

[CSX Robert]

MisterBeasley

Ops Mode programming addresses all of the engines on the layout when setting the engine's address.

That's not correct. All Ops mode programming is done to a specific address, and only the engine addressed will respond to the programming(unless you program to short address '0', which is the broadcast address, then all engines will respond). Some systems place limits on address programming in Ops mode, and some decoders place limits on address programming in Ops mode. For these reasons, as well as the fact that it is a good idea to do the inital programming of a hardwired decoder install on a current limited progran track, most people who use Ops mode programming still have a program track.

MisterBeasley

Other than the engine address, can you use Ops Mode to set other CVs without affecting other engines?

You can set any CV the decoder supports by using ops mode programming.

MisterBeasley

Can you read back CVs in Ops Mode?

No, not unless you have Digitrax, have it setup to do transponding, and are using transponding decoders.

[maxman]

MisterBeasley

Ops Mode programming addresses all of the engines on the layout when setting the engine's address.

I don't believe that this is correct, at least not with NCE.  I don't know exactly which system you have.  If you have an engine on the track fresh from the box, it should normally come with a default short address of 3.  If you select this engine to program, only the engine with address 3 will be affected.  You can change the short address of 3 to some other long address, and then use that long address for further programming.

[MisterBeasley]

CSX Robert

Why not use Ops mode programming for tinkering with CV's?

Ops Mode programming addresses all of the engines on the layout when setting the engine's address.  So, you need to make sure that the only engine on the track is the one whose address you want to program.  With 3 or 4 engines, that's not much of a big deal, but once you've got a large on-layout fleet, you've got to be very careful not to miss one.

So, I've got a programming track, and as a result, I'll have to admit to knowing very little about Ops Mode programming, so it's a good topic.  Other than the engine address, can you use Ops Mode to set other CVs without affecting other engines?  Can you read back CVs in Ops Mode?  Or, like the address, does the subject engine still need to be the only thing on the track?

[CSX Robert]

cacole

For a club or large layout the stand alone system eliminates the problem of having to shut the layout down so a decoder can be programmed...

With Digitrax, the layout doesn't have to be shut down to do service mode(program track) programming.

[selector]

My yard and engine servicing facility are co-located on one module.  The lead to the turntable is gapped at each end and powered from the input posts of an SPDT.  Thrown one way, all rails are powered, and thrown the other, the main layout goes dead while the lead stays powered.  That way, I remove a new engine, or a mothballed one, from its case, place it on the rails on the lead, and once it is powered up and configured, I needn't do more than chuff it off to the yard or into a roundhouse bay.

IOW, I don't like to handle my steamers unless I absolutely must.

Crandell

[locoi1sa]

  Craig

  My program track is at the workbench but on a separate board with my NMRA gauge. After a decoder instal and coupler hight, trip pin adjustment and wheel gauging it is programed and tested and then ready for the layout. I also use the program track for loco tune and lube/ wheel cleaning and tuning up rolling stock for the layout. It is powered by a simple NCE Power Cab or an old MRC DC power pack by swapping wires with quick connectors.

  Tweaking CVs can be done after the basic programing on the main line. Configuring the basic CVs and addresses is done at the bench after the decoder is known to work right.

          Pete 

[cacole]

We have both types at our HO scale club layout -- a run-through siding that is insulated at both ends and wired through a DPDT toggle switch so we can use it for programming as well as a regular part of the layout, and a totally separate track on a workbench connected to a stand-alone NCE Power Cab system for programming and wheel cleaning.

For a club or large layout the stand alone system eliminates the problem of having to shut the layout down so a decoder can be programmed, but for a home layout the choice would be yours alone.

On my HO scale home layout, the programming track is a stub-ended siding wired through a DPDT toggle switch because I would never be trying to run and program at the same time.

 

[CSX Robert]

MisterBeasley

After the initial programming, most of the time I use it for tinkering with CVs, adjusting volume levels, speed-matching, things like that.  In particular, speed matching means trying the unit on the layout anyway, so having the programming track in a separate room would mean a lot of legwork and re-railing.

Why not use Ops mode programming for tinkering with CV's? Especially for speed matching, I would find the program track, even if on the layout, very cumbersome: Run the engine on to the track, switch to program, program CVs, switch to run, test the engine, run the engine back on to track, switch to program, program CVs, switch to run, test engine, ...

With Ops mode programming you can change CVs with the engine anywhere on the layout. With some decoders(maybe even most, I know you can with all current Digitrax decoders) you can even change CVs while the engine is running(great for adjusting speed matching CVs).

[MisterBeasley]

First, setting up a programming track is trivial.  It's just a pair of wires from the base station to the track.  My first programming track was literally that - a section of snap-track wired up crudely.  It hung by the wires beneath the layout when not in use.  So, it's possible to have 2 programming tracks, one on your layout and one on your bench, if you'd like.

Personally, I like having the track on the layout.  After the initial programming, most of the time I use it for tinkering with CVs, adjusting volume levels, speed-matching, things like that.  In particular, speed matching means trying the unit on the layout anyway, so having the programming track in a separate room would mean a lot of legwork and re-railing.

My programming track is a convenient siding which is normally used for my coal-and-oil dealership, but a flip of a switch turns it into a programming track.  I just run the engine on to the siding, flip the switch and I'm in programming mode.  Then I flip it back and drive the engine back on to the layout for testing.  My fingers never leave my hands, and they don't leave any fingerprints on the loco, either.

[pastorbob]

My programming track is a separate small test road at my workbench.  I just don't take chances on the layout.  Besides, my workbench has the programming track right on the spot, so when I install a decoder, I can test it without moving it to the layout.   I can also make adjustments, etc. without moving it to the layout.  I use NCE and have a separate command station and booster at the workbench, which are backup components for the ones on the railroad that might fail the night before a session or open house and need to be replaced.

Once a unit hits the railroad, it is tested, programmed, checked out, and the only thing remaining is the consisting if it is to be part of one.

Bob

[wjstix]

In my mind the problem with a separate programming track is that you have to move the engine back and forth when doing the programming and then testing the results. I prefer to have the programming track be a section of track on the layout, with a DPDT switch so it either is set to program or just for regular track power. Currently I use a long spur track as my programming track. When speed matching engines I can MU the new engine on the programming track with a "golden" engine, and then run them side by side and increase or decrease speed to the one on the programming track until they're running the same speed and starting / stopping the same.  

[Aikidomaster]

Which is preferable, a programming track on the layout or one that is completely separate from the layout? Is one more complicated to construct than the other? I have seen a club layout where they used a completely separate programming track and used a Digitrax Zephyr to power it. It was also tied into a computer for programming.