Hey Guys
I just got back to working with my MR. I spent a couple weeks removing wallpaper and painting. YUCK! Bachmann sent me a new 2-6-6-2 after I complained about it jerking while descending a grade and lack of speed.Now to my concern. On my Power Cab it draws about a quarter amp. Top speed is a scale 29.5 MPH reached at about half throttle. With five walthers short heavy weight cars it slows to a crawl on a grade. 1.8% I tried it with 2.5 oz. of weight lain on top of the engine, no help, so it's probably not slipping. With the engine running by it's self the speeds are about the same except for the low speed, which is slightly faster (maybe).it's as slow as a snail and won't pull anything. Does this sound normal?My 4-8-2 heavy mountain runs the same track at good speed and no apparent effort.
I appreciate any insight.
Lee
I have this same engine with a Tsunami decoder that runs very well and has good top speed. It is a little
light in the britches but pulls 10 hoppers up my steep grades. Any more cars and it will slip.
Gale
If this locomotive is DCC equipted you may need to read your CVs and look at the speed tables ,check your Vstart Vmid And Vmax and adjust the last two to a higher value.
davidmbedardit has gunk in the gears...nothing to do with Cv values.David B
it has gunk in the gears...nothing to do with Cv values.
David B
Thanks for the help
David B.
I went down to my basement to run the 2-6-6-2 and it ran even slower this morning.
The basement is cool probably 65%. I am wondering if I should take it apart and lube the gears. Question: how do I get it apart? If the screws are under the sand domes and the steam dome can I just pry them off?
Lee,
David is likely on the right track about the gear lube.
This is not the easiest loco to disassemble, but, since the gear grease issue is likely in the worm gears, not the gear towers in the trucks, you would only have to take it about half way apart.
Do not try to take the covers off the drive trucks with the loco assembled, you will break the pickup wires.
Carefully remove the dome in the center, remove the screw. the boiler will then lift off with a little wiggling/unsnapping of the cab.
To get to the worm gears you must then unwire it and remove the upper weight.
The worm gear tower covers then unsnap like most models.
So that should get you into it if you choose to, but you might want to just run it in good first.
BUT, 65 degrees is a little on the cold side for these models. My layout is above my garage, and in the winter I only heat it when I'm out there. EVERYTHING runs sluggish and poorly until the room warms up and the locos warm up.
I can't say I remember clocking a top speed for my three 2-6-6-2's, but 29 smph seems slow for a top speed. That aspect may be a DCC issue in combination with the cold gear grease issue. Since all of mine are DC (no dual mode decoders) I cannot comment on how DCC problems or Bachmann's bargin basement decoders may be effecting the loco. I do know that the Bachmann decoders do not run well on my Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttles with DC.
As for pulling power, its not the strongest puller, but not bad either. From the measurements I have taken, it pulls nearly as well as my Spectrum Heavy Mountains. But the gear grease/cold weather thing will effect that too.
I know you have had problems with the first one of these you had, did you run this one right away when it came?
Does this one run smooth? I have three of these, one had problems from day one - sent it back replacement was fine.
One developed a problem later, that's how I know about disassembly. Fixed now Bachmann made that one good too. I know other with these who have had no problems.
David and others like to pick on Bachmann, and I will agree that the "failure" rate out of the box may well be higher than other brands. BUT, if they are right, they seem to run and last as well as any other brand - AND, none of those other brands are making hardly any of the prototypes that Bachmann has made.
It is easy to pick on Bachmann Spectrum Steam if you model 1985 and don't need or want a fleet of affordable well detailed everyday type locos like the 2-8-0, 4-8-2, 2-10-2, 4-6-0, etc, etc.
The nice people at some of the other brands have come right out and said they will not make small/medium/ordinary locos because they don't think they can make as much money on them.
All my Spectrum/Bachmann steam runs fine, dispite all the critics on here. I have:
9 - USRA Heavy 4-8-2's
3 - 2-6-6-2's
2 - 4-6-0's
8 - 2-8-0's (one kit bashed into an 0-8-0 just like the B&O did with some)
4 - 4-8-2's (being converted into freelanced heavy 2-8-2"s)
Many of these are kit bashed with different tenders and changed details.
I have found a number of very minor ajustments that greatly enhance each of these locos, and am very happy with their appearance and performance, especially for their modest prices.
And I see several more in my future.
Sheldon
Hi OK, I'm in the process of running the little beast for break in. I sure hope it works.It doesn't lunge going down grade as bad but I'm thinking the gears might be so stiff that it can't roll when the decoder backs off a little.Here is a picture of the miscreant. I guess I'll put a road number on it now because I don't want to ship it back an forth anymore.
Are we having fun yet?
In addition to the gear grease being stiff and the cool temperature making that worse, and based on how well mine run on DC, I would be very inclined to replace the Bachmann decoder with something better before passing anymore judgement about the locos performance. I can't help but think some of the problems you discribe are the bare minimum decoder, not the mechanical aspects of the loco.
It does have the Bachmann Tsunami decoder. I have the decoder in other steam and they seem to work very well. Are there problems?
No, it´s Bachmanns "standard" decoders that stinks .
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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Lee, I was not sure if you had the sound version or the DCC only version. I don't know of any problems with the sound versions, but again, I don't use DCC personally and I don't use sound either. The DCC only decoder is known to be very "basic" without the full range of programing features. I have not heard anything about the sound versions that come in the Spectrum locos.
But again, common sense says if they run good on DC, than they should run good on DCC - with a good decoder that is.
I don't buy sound equiped Bachmann locos. And when I do buy DCC versions the decoder is the first thing to go, along with the RF filter capacitors on the lighting board, so they will be compatible with my Aristo Train Engineer throttles.
What puzzles me the most is your complaint about slowing down on grades? Are you sure about the grade percentage being 1.8%? I have a grade of 2% and none of my locos slow noticably under too much load, they just start slipping - there is a difference between those two things. And the surging thing, only ever saw that down very steep grades (more than 3%) with any kind of model loco.
This may sound like an odd suggestion, but I wonder if the decoder could stand a full reset. It is entirely possible that a bit got scrambled, or input specifically and not purged later by a technician. A full factory default restoration may result in the slow speed disappearing because the factory default speed table would be restored.
Look at it this way...I couldn't hurt.
-Crandell
Crandel
I use decoder pro and I did tell the loco to use the straight line speed chart with 255 for the max CV. but you may have something there. It won't hurt to try a reboot. My engineering son says when your' having a problem "reboot"
Thanks for reminding me.
On the grades thing, I did have all less than 4% grades but I stretched the layout and I believe every thing is less than 2.2% now. The grade that I was watching was I believe the 1.8%. It's one of the long grades.I'm going to run the loco as much as I can and see what happens.
Thanks and I will report back in a day or two.
yankee flyer...On my Power Cab it draws about a quarter amp...
yankee flyer...Top speed is a scale 29.5 MPH reached at about half throttle...
The standard break-in time for a Bachmann is usually about an hour. I've only had 3 and they all took about a half hour forward and another half in reverse to break them in. It's almost strange how they quiet down and smooth out as they run.
Springfield PA
CSX Robert..Top speed is a scale 29.5 MPH reached at about half throttle..
RobertThe top speed is 29.5 and it reaches this at half throttle, any further increase in throttle gets no further increase in speed. I use Decoder Pro and set the speed chart to a straight line with top CV set at 255. Today I will try a reboot of the decoder and see if that will help along with some more run time.
Have fun.
If it reaches some speed at half throttle and won't go any faster for the top half of the throttle, that's the decoder adn speed curve. Are you using the 28 step speed table, or just CV2 and CV5? I would definitely do a full reset, and try runnign it on address 3, or else reprogram JUST the address and leave the speed curve until you know it's working OK.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have a bunch of Spectrum steam locomotives of all different wheel arraignments etc. and have yet to have one run as it should right out of the box. I don't know if it's the lubricant that they use in China or maybe the tolerances are just really tight but a good break in run is critical. I run them no less then two hours and make sure you run it in both directions. I had a 2-10-0 Decapod that would not run forward out of the box. Ran just fine in reverse but no forward. Before sending it back to Bachmann I took the advice of one of the train store groupies and" let it run for a while" Well for once I got some good advice. If I were you I would give it a couple of housrs of running forward and backward at different speeds and then see how it runs.
As far as the bad decoders, those are in Bachman standard or DCC on board engines and they are old Lenz decoders that they doesn't even sell. They seems to run ok but for some reason are very noisy. We replaced all of the ones in my son's Diesels with TCS decoders.
As far as traction many of these big articulated don't pull nearly as well as they should or as the prototypes did. Most of them are no where near as heavy as they should be nor is their weight distributed correctly. I use Bull Frog Snot on all of my steam loco's It's a real kick in the tail when My BLI T-1 will out pull any of the Proto Y3's before I used that stuff. Now I woud say the Y3's will hold their own but too often we expect the models to work like the real thing and it's a great disappointment when they don't.
Allegheny2-6-6-6As far as the bad decoders, those are in Bachman standard or DCC on board engines and they are old Lenz decoders that they doesn't even sell. They seems to run ok but for some reason are very noisy.
Hi Guys
Well I am reporting back on my Tsunami equipped 2-6-6-2. I ran speed tests with a stop watch and a level 4 feet on the track.I have a couple hours on the engine at least. The results I calculated with the on line calculater for scale speed. The tests were powered by my NCE Power Cab with nothing else on the track.Power step: Miles per hour scale:#10 18.25 mph#12 21.57#14 23.73#16 26.36#18 29.66#20 33.9#22 33.9#28 33.9Does all of this sound normal? I have reset decoder to factory default and started over. I checked all of my settings with Decoder Pro. Speed settings are 28 /128 with speed table linear and top speed CV at 255. If this is normal then I am kind of disappointed in the performace. My other steamers run great.Thank you all for your input.
There is still somethign up with the way it is handling the speed table. After you reset it, did you try WITHOUT a speed table? Try that and see what speeds it runs. It's probably not far off prototypical speeds, but with barely any change from mid to top says the speed table is not workign correctly.
Today after reading your latest post, I went out to the train room (above my garage), and ran some speed tests with one of my three DC, non sound, Spectrum 2-6-6-2's.
Test conditions: Room temperature 50 degrees, loco has been in this room all winter, Throttle - Aristo Train Engineer with maximum of 13.5 volts available at the track from a filtered, regulated power supply, speed control set for pulse width modulation. Speed measured over a nine foot distance, timed with a stop watch.
Times compaired to a previously established speed chart. Math of speed chart double checked with actual numbers from this test.
After running the loco forward and reverse about six times, I than clocked it at full throttle through the nine foot measured course in both forward and reverse over six times - running free, level track, no load.
The average speed was 55 scale miles per hour at 13.5 volts DC.
Then I attached 40, identical, 4.3 oz Athearn piggyback flat cars, equiped with free rolling trucks. The loco easily pulled the the 40 cars and easily pushed them backwards, again all on level track (track tested to less than .25% grade in any direction at any point).
I then measured the speed in both directions at full throttle while pulling the 40 cars. The average speed of three runs in both directions with the 40 cars was 48 scale miles per hour, again at 13.5 volts DC.
I made no measurements of current draw, my power supply provides up to 3 amps.
The loco started and ran smooth through all speed ranges in both directions.
40 - 45 mph surely would have been a top speed for the prototype with day to day speeds more like 35, so the speed range of the loco on 13.5 volts DC is more than acceptable.
It seems clear to me that the problem, and all the problems you have had with this loco or previous copies, are decoder problems, not mechanical problems with the loco.
Dispite opinions to the contrary, I suspect a better decoder would result in excelent performance.
Still very happy to not have to install or program decoders or learn to use Decoder Pro.
Sheldon, this one is for you:
Graffen Sheldon, this one is for you:
Not sure I get it? Not sure I care.
ATLANTIC CENTRALDispite opinions to the contrary, I suspect a better decoder would result in excelent performance. Still very happy to not have to install or program decoders or learn to use Decoder Pro. Sheldon
I think the Tsunami is a pretty good decoder but there could be a problem with this one. The loco does run quite well, this one even runs down grade at notch one in a very smooth manner. I going to operate it for a while and see if the speed improves or something else shows up.As far as DCC, it is the only thing that brought me into the hobby. But thats good, there is something in the hobby for everyone. I enjoy the challenge of learning new things. Having my Avatar in the cab do my biding appealed to me.I value all view points.
Have fun
yankee flyerI think the Tsunami is a pretty good decoder but there could be a problem with this one. The loco does run quite well, this one even runs down grade at notch one in a very smooth manner. I going to operate it for a while and see if the speed improves or something else shows up.
I do very much hope you figure it out because they really are very nice locos. Two of mine are lettered for my ATLANTIC CENTRAL and have Bachmann long Vanderbilt tenders, the third is C&O. I plan to get one of the new H4's in C&O, and maybe a couple for the ACR as well.
yankee flyerAs far as DCC, it is the only thing that brought me into the hobby. But thats good, there is something in the hobby for everyone. I enjoy the challenge of learning new things. Having my Avatar in the cab do my biding appealed to me.I value all view points.
DCC is a great control system and I recommend it to many, my point is only that one size does not fit all. Back before DCC I would have never suggested that every DC layout be wired with the same type of control scheme, now that we have DCC, that has not changed - different layout goals require different solutions.
I'm not new to tech, or even remotely shy about it. 30 years ago, with no formal training, I was programing some of the first Programable Logic Controllers being used in industry to replace relays and automate process machinery. It was fun and challenging - then.
Today I am a Residential Designer and Historic Restoration Consultant. I plan residential historic restorations, design houses, additions, kitchens, baths, hydronic heating systems and their controls, electrical installations, whole house automation, and more. But I'm not into tech for it's own sake. My house has X-10 home automation, but no programable thermostats, they don't suit our life style. I don't own an Ipod and my cell phone does not take pictures, but I designed and personally built the home theater speakers in my family room. I live in a 107 year old Queen Anne house that is mechanicaly and electricaly only 13 years old - it looks just like it did in 1901, but is as modern as any house functionaly. I restored and updated it myself.
I have been building model trains for 40 years, worked in hobby shops, known a mover and shaker or two in this hobby. I looked long and hard at DCC on two different occasions before begining the current layout and control system.
Because my layout is large but relatively simple, and I want signaling with CTC, and don't like onboard sound, it just did not add up for me. Too expensive, too much new learning curve, too many "still growing" aspects to the technology and my signal/CTC system would still reqiure all the same "stuff" with or without DCC.
Prices have come down a lot since I first considered it, but I still like not having to deal with programing locos or installing decoders in the 100+ locos I already have. The locos I need to double/triple head all run fine together without "consisting". The Aristo wireless throttles and my pushbutton cab assignment circuit gives me full walk around, and my signal/CTC system is intergrated right into the turnout and cab selection systems.
Until you have operated a well planned and designed DC layout (which many modelers today have never even seen), DCC seems like the solution to all the "problems" of DC control. And in many cases DCC is a great choice for many layouts. But well designed DC systems can and have, for decades, run model trains very well.
Again, good luck with the 2-6-6-2.
ATLANTIC CENTRALGraffen Sheldon, this one is for you: Not sure I get it? Not sure I care. Sheldon
This is an example of the "new" movement Steampunk! They like new things as long as they look and feel old .
As I have seen in many of your replies, you have an all DC layout. Kudos for that!
But all DCC equipped Locomotives problems can´t be solved by saying; -Its a DCC issue, better to use DC instead.
Okay, you have less "problems" running DC, but we that runs DCC can more often than not accept that we run into some snags, as the enjoyment factor of running a DCC/sound train is way higher than a standard DC-train in my opinion. I, for one, wouldn´t stay in Model RR´ing if there wasn´t technological advances to "play" with.
I also fly RC model airplanes and the same type of arguments were heard when we started using 2.4 Ghz equipment; -The new stuff has issues and that the old and proven stuff is way better. (wich it is NOT).
GraffenBut all DCC equipped Locomotives problems can´t be solved by saying; -Its a DCC issue, better to use DC instead.
I never said or even implied that. Lee has been having problems with his 2-6-6-2 for quite some time, this is the second one after having the first one replaced by Bachmann. In this case, and this case alone, I suspected from the outset that it was a decoder problem, even with the one he sent back that was replaced. In the begining, Lee seemed convinced there was some fatial mechanical flaw in the locos design. All I have been tring to do is help him figure out if it was mechanical or electrical and help him see it might just be electrical and DCC related.
Being the owner of three DC versions of the same loco, and having done some work on them, and actually having had to return one to Bachmann for replacement, I have some experiance with this particular loco. I understand Lee's interest in DCC and sound and that is fine. I have been, for many months now, on a number of different posting by Lee, trying to help him. Again, all my knowledge of this loco, and DCC, tells me its a decoder problem.
Even though I don't personally use DCC on my layout, I operate on a number of DCC layouts every month in our local round robin group, some of which are layouts I helped design or helped build/wire.
I'm not "new" or inexperianced with DCC.
GraffenOkay, you have less "problems" running DC, but we that runs DCC can more often than not accept that we run into some snags, as the enjoyment factor of running a DCC/sound train is way higher than a standard DC-train in my opinion. I, for one, wouldn´t stay in Model RR´ing if there wasn´t technological advances to "play" with.
That's all fine, I listen to new people, or those considering DCC and based on their needs/wants I often recommend that DCC would be best for them. But again, not best for EVERYBODY ALL THE TIME.
You like sound, so do I - in G scale. In HO the sound quality is not acceptable to me. AND, I am building a large layout that will have many trains operating at once - too much noise all at once.
I will even concede that one HO loco, by its self, with sound, turned down to a low level, can make for a very nice effect. But not a whole room full of them with operators trying to talk to dispatchers and viewers holding conversations, etc,etc.
Your modeling goals are likely different - I understand. It is many of you who like sound who will not take the time or have an open mind to understand my view.
The few advantages that DCC would have to my particular layout and operational plan do not justify the cost or the effort for me. That is time and money I would rather put into my signal/CTC system and into more equipment, structures and scenery.
I have said before, if I was building a different type of layout with different modeling goals, I likely could choose DCC. But I have been working toward this layout goal for some time and have no interest in changing the goals mid stream - I have been at this 40 years, I know what I want/like and each new product on the market does not send me in a new direction.
GraffenThis is an example of the "new" movement Steampunk! They like new things as long as they look and feel old .
I guess I didn't get it because you have got me all wrong, it is just the oposite - I like old things that look, work and feel like they did when they were new. I restore old houses and make them look like they did the day the first owner moved in (and make them work like new as a side benifit). NOT some rustic, wornout, patched up, romantic notion of "old world charm" with beat up door jambs and painted over peeling paint.
I like high levels of craftsmanship from days gone by, I like to create the feeling of what it was like to be there in 1901, when my house was first built. That is what my house is like, like a perfectly restored 50 year old car - but it is a 109 year old house - just like being there when it was new. A little wear and tear is OK, but no more than you might find in a 10 year old house today.
My railroad is a similar time capsule - its 1954 here on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL.