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Troubles at the switch

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  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 22 posts
Troubles at the switch
Posted by GE_AC_LOCO on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 12:27 AM
I recently bought a Shinohara #6 Double Crossover, and am having problems all of a sudden. I run on a Zephyr, and a DT402 controller. I don't know if either of those has to do with the problem. I am thinking it is an electrical since on the west side of the switch I am having no problems. When I bring a locomotive around and come through the west end of the crossover, it immediately dies on me. The loco doesn't make it to the frog either. I would understand if it died at the frog since I haven't wired the turnout yet. However, even though I haven't wired the crossover, it was working like a dream for the past few days since I bought it. I ran my meter over the track beginning about 3ft behind where the crossover begins, and worked my way up to the frog, and had power all the way up to the frog. I cleaned the track. Kinda lost here, Help Please
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Westchester NY
  • 1,747 posts
Posted by retsignalmtr on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 12:50 AM

At my club we have a couple of shinohara electro-frog double crossovers. We usually have two problems with them. 1. Is when the wheels short out at the frog. It's mostly longer steam locos or six axle diesels,but cars with metal wheels do it also. Nail polish on the frogs solved that problem. 2. Is when the backs of the wheels touch the open point and short out. Again it's usually locos with longer wheelbases. The wheels are in gauge with the NMRA standards gauge, but the point opening is not wide enough to let the wheels pass without rubbing on the point. The fix for that is a little more involved than nail polish and we haven't done anything about it.

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Summit NJ
  • 308 posts
Posted by fkrall on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 6:03 AM

I recently had a similar problem with a Peco insulfrog turnout that an 0-6-0T would traverse beautifully whereas my new SW7 would stop dead upon entering from the diverging end.

Turned out that the points stopped millimeters short of closing fully when set for the mainline--the under-the-subroadbed Peco turnout motor was misaligned and binding.  I solved the problem by reinstalling the motor, a task I hope I never, ever have to do again.

Rick Krall

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 22 posts
Posted by GE_AC_LOCO on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:14 PM
Thanks to all for the replies, and the great advice. I haven't put a manual throw on either ends of the switch yet. So you think that it could be that the rails don't fully close, or open, causing a short circuit? Could the problem possibly be that I am entering the switch backwards? I saw something about that in a book once. M
  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 22 posts
Posted by GE_AC_LOCO on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:22 PM
I am runnig longer/six axle diesels, and it happens to both of them. I haven't tried a smaller loco yet as I have them apart for decoder installation. 1. I'm a little confused what you mean by "points". 2. Could it be that I am entering the switch backwards? 3. When you said electro-frogs, I don't know if that applies to me since I have yet to power the frogs, and the locos are shorting way short of the frogs. They are shorting/stopping (it isn't showing as a short on my pm42, or booster), as soon as the loco enters the switch, or hits the points. I might be way off in this message, as I am still a little confused about what you mean by points. I think you mean the two rails that switch back and forth allowing the switch as open or closed.
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 3,312 posts
Posted by locoi1sa on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 3:41 PM

   Do you have feeders on the other side of the turnout? Drop some more feeders to the buss and take the rail joiners out of the electrical equation. Another thing I like to do is solder a small piece of decoder wire from the point rails to the stock rails. Peco, Sinohara and my hand built turnouts are done like that.

      Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Summit NJ
  • 308 posts
Posted by fkrall on Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:30 AM

GE_AC_LOCO
I am runnig longer/six axle diesels, and it happens to both of them. I haven't tried a smaller loco yet as I have them apart for decoder installation. 1. I'm a little confused what you mean by "points". 2. Could it be that I am entering the switch backwards? 3. When you said electro-frogs, I don't know if that applies to me since I have yet to power the frogs, and the locos are shorting way short of the frogs. They are shorting/stopping (it isn't showing as a short on my pm42, or booster), as soon as the loco enters the switch, or hits the points. I might be way off in this message, as I am still a little confused about what you mean by points. I think you mean the two rails that switch back and forth allowing the switch as open or closed.

 

If you're referring to my post, yes, a turnout's points are as you understand them to be.  And note that I said "insulfrog," not "electrofrog."  My Peco's frog is not powered.

I my case, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what happened electrically other than "short," but the longer wheelbase SW7 caused a short when the trucks bridged the gap between the route trackage and the turnout.  The Model Power 0-6-0T has a shorter wheelbase and doesn't get power from all wheels, and I assume that's why it bridged the gap with no problems. I power each turnout separately, with feeders to the inside rails on the diverging side of the frog and feeders to the outside rails on the point side. I do use rail joiners to connect the track, but I don't depend on them to carry power to the rails.

Short form--I hope my experience can help you.  Unfortunately, if your points are closing fully, I have no idea what else might be wrong.

Rick Krall

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