fwright rs2mike Sorry I should have said that with power leads hooked to the motor everything works great. but when I try to use the tender I get nothing. I use dcc so there is not even the squealing pig noise. There was a wire that was soldered to the top of the motor that I have no idea where it goes. I assume if I had the cab to tender pin I would now be providing power to the chasis so that does not solve any issues for me. What am I missing here. I believe the Ken Kidder Porter Mogul may have been before the time of the conducting drawbar. My older steam locomotives use a fiber (or similar insulating) drawbar with a separate flexible wire running from one motor brush directly to a screw on the tender. I don't have a Kidder model to verify the configuration, but my Mantuas and older Bowsers certainly used the wire directly to the tender. As mentioned by others, the other motor brush is grounded to the locomotive frame. The tender provides half the pickup, and the engine provides the other half. This older configuration of a direct wire to the tender has the benefit of bypassing contact and shorting problems within the drawbar. The disadvantages are 1) having to ensure the wire is flexible enough not to disrupt tracking of tender or engine, and 2) disguising the wire(s) as a water or other pipe from tender to engine. Common problem areas with tender power pickup include oxidized tender wheels, oxidized tender truck side frames, and oxidized bolsters on the tender trucks and tender body. Since all these parts were made of brass in the Kidder models (nickel plating wasn't common then), oxidation at any point in the path will cause the current flow to stop. I used to clean the oxidation from these surfaces, and then use a little electrical contact (or TV tuner) cleaner to prevent the brass from re-oxidizing. The tender electrical pickup will benefit significantly from wheel wipers or track sliders directly wired to the screw where the motor wire attaches. Then any oxidized brass surfaces (the bolsters always gave me the most problems) are bypassed. If you run a second wire to the engine, you can put wipers or sliders on the insulated side of the tender and give the tender all wheel pickup. Just make sure the wiper/slider mounting pads and wiring are kept insulated from the tender frame and body throughout. FWIW, there was an article entitled, "A Versatile Little Rascal" in July 1962 Model Railroader (if my memory is correct). The article laid out several different bashes of the Kidder Porter Mogul. hope this helps Fred W
rs2mike Sorry I should have said that with power leads hooked to the motor everything works great. but when I try to use the tender I get nothing. I use dcc so there is not even the squealing pig noise. There was a wire that was soldered to the top of the motor that I have no idea where it goes. I assume if I had the cab to tender pin I would now be providing power to the chasis so that does not solve any issues for me. What am I missing here.
Sorry I should have said that with power leads hooked to the motor everything works great. but when I try to use the tender I get nothing. I use dcc so there is not even the squealing pig noise. There was a wire that was soldered to the top of the motor that I have no idea where it goes. I assume if I had the cab to tender pin I would now be providing power to the chasis so that does not solve any issues for me. What am I missing here.
I believe the Ken Kidder Porter Mogul may have been before the time of the conducting drawbar. My older steam locomotives use a fiber (or similar insulating) drawbar with a separate flexible wire running from one motor brush directly to a screw on the tender. I don't have a Kidder model to verify the configuration, but my Mantuas and older Bowsers certainly used the wire directly to the tender.
As mentioned by others, the other motor brush is grounded to the locomotive frame. The tender provides half the pickup, and the engine provides the other half. This older configuration of a direct wire to the tender has the benefit of bypassing contact and shorting problems within the drawbar. The disadvantages are 1) having to ensure the wire is flexible enough not to disrupt tracking of tender or engine, and 2) disguising the wire(s) as a water or other pipe from tender to engine.
Common problem areas with tender power pickup include oxidized tender wheels, oxidized tender truck side frames, and oxidized bolsters on the tender trucks and tender body. Since all these parts were made of brass in the Kidder models (nickel plating wasn't common then), oxidation at any point in the path will cause the current flow to stop. I used to clean the oxidation from these surfaces, and then use a little electrical contact (or TV tuner) cleaner to prevent the brass from re-oxidizing.
The tender electrical pickup will benefit significantly from wheel wipers or track sliders directly wired to the screw where the motor wire attaches. Then any oxidized brass surfaces (the bolsters always gave me the most problems) are bypassed. If you run a second wire to the engine, you can put wipers or sliders on the insulated side of the tender and give the tender all wheel pickup. Just make sure the wiper/slider mounting pads and wiring are kept insulated from the tender frame and body throughout.
FWIW, there was an article entitled, "A Versatile Little Rascal" in July 1962 Model Railroader (if my memory is correct). The article laid out several different bashes of the Kidder Porter Mogul.
hope this helps
Fred W
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
Thanks Randy. So I am guessing there is some sort of fiber washer or plastic spacer on that cab to tender pin then. See this is my biggest problem I guess because it did not have the tender pin. Can I get one anywhere would a rivarossi pin work?
Thanks again
Mike
Typical brass construction has one brush of the motor connected to the frame, which is how power gets from the uninsulated side of the loco to the motor. The other brush may have a wire, which goes to the pin that connects to the drawbar. This pin would be insulated from the loco chassis. On the tender, the wheels opposite those on the loco would be uninsulated - however it's sometimes possible for an entire tender truck to get turned around causing a dead short. The whole tender body is 'grounded' to the rail with the uninsulated wheels in most cases - which if the loco and tender couple closely can cause a short on sharp curves if the cab roof touches the tender. It's all really simple with a minimum of wires.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
locoi1sa Did you check the motor if it turns at all? Gear box binding or side rods bent? Wheels out of quarter? Can you remove the motor and power it alone to see if it is good? Pete
Did you check the motor if it turns at all? Gear box binding or side rods bent? Wheels out of quarter? Can you remove the motor and power it alone to see if it is good?
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Brass locomotives pick up power I believe from the left side drivers of the engine and the right wheels of the tender, they have to be connected,Also make sure the insulatedt ender trucks wheels are not turned around.
Ok I have a ken kidder 2-6-0 mogal that I am restoring. It did not run when I got it and it was missing the tender pin on the cab. None of the wires were hooked up. I have found out that the left rail powers to the frame and the right rail powers to the top of the spring for the motor contact. I have no idea how the tender works into the equation. I put the tender on the tracks and ran jumper wires to the motor. No dice, no power. What am I missing here? Any help is appreciated.
Thanks