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Lenz gold decoders in brass steamers=slow speed

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Posted by tstage on Friday, January 29, 2010 1:22 PM

CB&Q Modeler
these installs are in GN. loco's a Q1 2-10-2 and a N3 2-8-8-0

Hey Larry,

I tried identifying top speed stats for both said locomotives using Steamlocomotive.com and Google.  Here's what I found out:

GN 2-10-2 Q1 - Senior editor, Jim Hediger, wrote a review of the IHC "Sante Fe-type" 2-10-2 in the March 2007 issue of MR.  He stated that the "model's top speed of 60 mph is close to a typical prototype 2-10-2's maximum of 55 mph".

GN 2-8-8-0 N3 - Quote from last paragraph in link, "according to Charles R. Wood...[he] quotes Mr. J S Miller, Assistant to the Superintendent of Motive Power in 1945/46 as saying that N-3s could '...run like a deer' and hit speeds of 50-60 mph".

Hope that helps...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by CB&Q Modeler on Friday, January 29, 2010 9:30 AM

Good thoughts Wayne

I had wondered about the different motor rpms on the 2 installs,used these motors because they were the flat can type and would fit the firebox area without surgery.these installs are in GN. loco's a Q1 2-10-2 and a N3 2-8-8-0 so neither are any sort of high speed loco so thought the 8800rpm motors wold be sufficent and of course I'd have no idea as to their factory gear ratio or the motor rpms.worst case scenerio would be getting them regeared. 

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Posted by jjjwar on Friday, January 29, 2010 9:06 AM

   I cannot help with any info on the Lenz decoders but I have remotored a fair number of brass steam locomotives. One thing that might be causing a slower top end speed are the motors you used to remotor the locomotive. Some of the old open frame motors turned higher rpms then the can motors we use to replace them. When I swapped out the old open frame motor in my Van Hobbies CNR 2-8-0 for a NWSL can motor I found it needed a new gearbox. The factory gearbox was a 36:1 ratio so I replaced it with a NWSL gearbox with the same gear ratio. Once I got everything back together with a Tsunami sound decoder installed I was surprised to find the locomotive had a top speed of about 40 scale miles an hour. A little bit slower than I was hoping for. After trying another motor with the same results I finally noticed the old open frame motor ran at higher rpms. Once I knew that I tracked down another can motor that ran at a higher rpm than the one I had planned on using and the locomotive would now run at about 55 scale miles an hour. Good enough for me.  My other option would have been to swap the 36:1 ratio gearbox for a 28:1 gearbox.

    Another thing that may have made the locomotive seem faster on DC could be the fact the DC power supply used to test it may put out more than 12 volts. This will cause the locomotive to have extra top end speed compared to when it is run on DCC with a decoder installed.

 

Wayne Reid

 

 

   

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Posted by CB&Q Modeler on Friday, January 29, 2010 8:26 AM

Hey there Tstag

Answer to no.1 they were tested on our club DCC layout

Two of the engines were given NWSL 8800 rpm can motors at the time they recieved their decoders so the new motors have not been run without the decoders being installed.

As for the 3rd engine ,last to have decoder install engine ran fine on DC before decoder install.

After posting I did remember about the F3 function and after testing my latest install think we may have stumbled on to the problem,unfortunely I only have a 3ft DC test track here at home so while the engine did definitely seem to be picking up more speed had to back the throttle down before i hit end of track.

I had assumed the switching mod to be turned off by default on these decoders.....hmmmm' maybe not!

hoping to be able to check that tomorrow on all three engines.

Will keep you posted,

                   thanks for the help.

Larry.

 

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Posted by tstage on Friday, January 29, 2010 4:39 AM

CB&Q,

A few questions for clarification.  When you say that your steamers ran faster "before adding the decoders":

1) Did you test them on your DCC layout, or on DC?
2) When you tested them, were they with the upgraded can motors?
3) If you answered yes to #2, do you know what the maximum speed was for each of your prototype locomotives?
4) What scale speed (or sMPH) are each of your locomotives achieving with the current combination of upgraded can motors and Lenz Gold decoder?

The reason for asking questions 1 & 2 are to determine if the reduction in your steamer's max speed is related to the upgraded can motors, or isolated to the decoder itself.  The reason for asking questions 3 & 4 is because some locomotives run waaaaaay too fast normally but now maybe running at prototypical speeds with the decoder installed.

CB&Q, be sure to also check to see that you don't have F3 engaged on your throttle - i.e. if you are operating in DCC.  Although generally F6 on other decoders with the capability, F3 is "yard" or "switching" mode on the Lenz Gold decoders .  If F3 is engaged, this will cut your overall speed exactly in 1/2.  To disengage yard mode, press F3 again.

I have a Lenz Gold in my Stewart FT A-B and a Lenz Silver MP in my Blueline NYC Niagara.  Because of the excellent BEMF, both decoders are absolutely scary how slow they can go at speed step 001. CoolThumbs Up  CB&Q, here's a review of the Lenz Gold decoder from Tony's Train Exchange web site that may be of help, too.

Keep us posted...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Lenz gold decoders in brass steamers=slow speed
Posted by CB&Q Modeler on Thursday, January 28, 2010 11:28 AM

Quite new to DCC so have a slight problem I hope someone can help with.

I have install decoders (Lenz Gold) in three of my brass steamers all have been upgraded with NWSL can motors,they run great , the problem is they only run at about half the maximum speed they did before adding the decoders. the decoder is set for Min speed v:=4 max speed v:max=255 but I'm wondering about the mid range and setting up the speed curve,if these could cause my slow speeds.

Hope I'm explaining this correctly.

 

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