I'm sure this question has been asked before and I am pretty sure I know the right answer but just want to affirm my thoughts. We are building a new section onto the club layout and being the economy the way it is of course we're looking to save money any way we can. So this new yard is going to be 20'x50' long and have double ended staging in a separate room next to the main layout area. So a question was brought up in an effort to save some money why don't we use the old dcc system MRC instead of spending the money right now on the new NCE equipment.There were no real complaints with the MRC system but it just did not have all the capabilities at the time NCE had/has. Radio throttles, pc interface etc.
This new yard will have at minimum three operators and a separate yard dispatcher. So I see no reason why the new yard could not be controlled by the MRC system and the rest be controlled by the NCE other then the throttles being different everything else should be fine. There shouldn't be any conflicts but my only thought was would all of the features that are available on the NCE be available on the MRC and will programing be over lapping, or would the yard engines need to be programmed on the MRC system?
Oh and we thought about trying to sell off what we had in the way of MRC stuff but with club politics the way it was it took less planning to invade Normandy then to get everyone in complete agreement. So as one member said rather then take a loss use what we have even if only temporarily
Make sure there is plenty of boundary between the tracks to different systems. There are clueless in clubs and Murphy knows this. You yourself know who those clueless in your club are and will eventually run a loco from one system into another at a track boundary.
Our club would let someone run a DC loco in a couple blocks and one time he did not pay attention. Ran his loco into the DCC block with the resulting smoke and extra expense. We no longer allow any DC running.
We new this could happen but figured, that happens to others. Well, we became the others.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Short answer is No it won't work. A layout can have a large number of boosters but there can be only one command station. The trouble would occur when you try to cross from the MRC yard to the NCE main layout. Metal wheels are bridging the two different systems. Some type of interlock could probably be designed and built but quite frankly that's a lot of trouble and extra work to save maybe $150. Another issue would be the MRC having enough power for a 20 x 50 yard?
You really only need another booster in the new yard. It can be controlled by the main NCE command station and connected by a cable. Doesn't even have to be an NCE booster. Digitrax DB150, DB200, CVP Zonemaster, etc. would work. Even MRC has an add on booster that would work with NCE. Unfortunately, the Prodigy can't be configured to be only a booster because MRC didn't design it that way.
There are also some plans on line for home built boosters.
The only way I can see this working is if you have an electrical section, at least a yard longer than the longest train that will ever run through it, that is isolated from BOTH of your DCC systems and is powered through a center-off DPDT toggle switch. Normally it would be dead, so a train couldn't accidentally cruise through. It can be connected to the, 'Enter,' DCC system when an operator is on hand to exert positive control, then switched to the, 'Exit,' system so another crew can take it away. This would have to be done every place that the two systems interface.
I really think that it would be cheaper in the long run to invest in a booster and make the new yard a power district of the main DCC system.
Remember, where there is a potential for damage or disaster, there is no such thing as a foolproof system. Some just require either more inventiveness or greater foolishness on the part of the fool. Murphy is alive and well, and always looking for a chance to show off.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Does the club have a workbench with a test track? I'd suggest connecting the MRC unit up to that, to keep people from coming up with other, more dangerous uses for it.
If you need more power for the new yard, separate it with a simple set of insulated gaps and get a booster. Then you can run it off the NCE, too. This is what you will end up doing in the long run, anyway. You'll have a separate power system with a seamless transition back and forth - no worrying about toggle switches or that extra-long train that happens to bridge both gaps. This will give you a separate circuit-breaker protection for the yard, too, to keep the main running even when there's a short in the yard.
Sometimes the right way is the cheap way, but not this time.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Two DCC systems on the same layout? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. At some point Murphy will find a way to have both systems come in contact with each other. At best they would cancel each other out. At worst there's gonna be smoke coming from somewhere.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
QUESTION: Which DCC system are you willing to sacrifice to the magic smoke genie when you try to pass from one to the other? One of them will be destroyed. Take your pick.
Even if you try to install an isolated section of track with some type of toggle switch scheme to select between the two systems, it's almost guaranteed that someone in the club will have the switch set wrong as the locomotive crosses the boundary. Murphy loves challenges such as this.
Even though both systems will be putting the NMRA standard DCC signal on the track, they will be out of phase with each other. If one of them doesn't go up in smoke, the locomotive's decoder may, and there's no telling what the outcome may be from the decoder receiving conflicting speed commands from the two systems.
"Does the club have a workbench with a test track? I'd suggest connecting the MRC unit up to that, to keep people from coming up with other, more dangerous uses for it."
Mr.B great minds think a like this was my off the cuff suggestion, we have a large programing track as well as a test track in the shop, both equipped with NCE throttles and I was under the impression that they were connected to the main command station but a member who called me this morning about something else told me he believed the shop set up had it's own command station. I said well there's the solution. Take the shop NCE system and use it in the yard and I thought we could use the MRC system for programing & testing but it does not have PC interface etc. which the club seems to be big on. I don't see the big deal as just about every locomotive steam or diesel has the correct sound programmed into it already.
I think the best solution would to just put it on ebay with a reserve, but that will take about 6 months to a year for the brain trust aka the club board of directors to come up with a price.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
I would recommend simply adding a booster. Leave the one system in charge, let it do the figuring, and just boost the signal and available voltage to the addition via a dedicated district, or series of them as appropriate.
-Crandell
selector I would recommend simply adding a booster. Leave the one system in charge, let it do the figuring, and just boost the signal and available voltage to the addition via a dedicated district, or series of them as appropriate. -Crandell
We did this last summer at our large HO scale layout when we added a new room and extended the layout into it. I just added an NCE booster and receiving antenna (we're using the NCE radio throttles) and all is well. We now have one Power Pro command station, 4 boosters, and 3 antennas. For a programming and wheel cleaning station, we have a separate NCE Power Cab that is connected only to the workbench track.
cacoleselector I would recommend simply adding a booster. Leave the one system in charge, let it do the figuring, and just boost the signal and available voltage to the addition via a dedicated district, or series of them as appropriate. -Crandell We did this last summer at our large HO scale layout when we added a new room and extended the layout into it. I just added an NCE booster and receiving antenna (we're using the NCE radio throttles) and all is well. We now have one Power Pro command station, 4 boosters, and 3 antennas. For a programming and wheel cleaning station, we have a separate NCE Power Cab that is connected only to the workbench track.
You said the magic word RADIO! for the life of me and several other member I can't understand why some member or should I say just enough member have such an aversion to wireless throttles. We can have up to 25 operators not including the new or existing yard operations and they are all tethered to the fascia plates. My layout is no where near the size of the club layout and I can clearly see the benefits of going wireless. If memory serves me correct we have 7 or 8 districts each with it's own booster. I think if one was building a club or a large home layout wireless is the only way to go.