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NCE Intermediate Cab Features

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NCE Intermediate Cab Features
Posted by Espee Black Widow on Sunday, January 24, 2010 8:44 PM

NCE offers their CAB-04 in two versions, one with a potentiometer speed control and the other with a digital encoder. I remember at one time reading something about one cab being able to do something that the other cab was not capable of and it was based on whether it had the potentiometer or the digital encoder. I looked at the NCE website and the only thing I see different between the two variants is that the digital encoder provides for ballistic tracking and the potentiometer doesn't. I seem to remember that the difference was something that was not advertised but rather identified by users of the cabs. Anyone have any idea what the difference in features might be that the literature doesn't mention?

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Posted by maxman on Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:52 PM

I'm not familiar with any secret features.  However, the 04E can control two separate locomotives at a time, while the 04P can only control one.  Take a look at the pictures at the NCE website and you'll see that the 04E has a toggle switch on the top.  The cab instructions also describe this feature.

http://www.ncedcc.com/images/stories/manuals/cab04e_v31.pdf

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, January 25, 2010 2:58 PM

 You might be referring to yard mode. Dunno if the Cab-04P can do the yard mode, if it did, you'd basically go between stop and full speed in less than half a turn of the knob. Plus with a potentiometer control, the position is directly realted to the current speed. This is anothe rreason I prefer encoders. When you switch to another loco, it doesn't have to change speed to match up to the current knob position. With a potentiometer throttle, if you are at half throttle and go to select a different loco that is stopped, it's going to have to leap into action to match the throttle position. Or else set the current throttle position as 'stop' meaning you have less than a half turn from stop to full throttle.

                                     --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Espee Black Widow on Monday, January 25, 2010 7:36 PM

rrinker
This is anothe rreason I prefer encoders. When you switch to another loco, it doesn't have to change speed to match up to the current knob position. With a potentiometer throttle, if you are at half throttle and go to select a different loco that is stopped, it's going to have to leap into action to match the throttle position.

 

Randy, thanks for the reply and for refreshing my memory. The fact that the potentiometer doesn't remember the throttle position while switching between locomotives is the thing I was trying to remember reading about. NCE doesn't make mention of this in their website or the literature on the cabs. I came across this difference while reading something somewhere but could find the article again to refresh my memory. That may be the reason why the CAB-04p doesn't have the ability to switch between two different locomotives or consists like the CAB-04e does.

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Posted by maxman on Monday, January 25, 2010 8:29 PM

According to the cab documentation, the 04P does have a yard mode whereby the pot can have a center position.  However, this cab can only control one engine at a time.  So the fact that NCE does not mention in the literature or on the website that the pot doesn't remember throttle position does not seem relevant to anything in particular.  Are you sure that there wasn't something else? 

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Posted by Espee Black Widow on Monday, January 25, 2010 8:57 PM

You are correct, the 04 series cabs do have a yard mode. As I said earlier, being that the 04p can only control one locomotive at a time this lack of throttle postion memory is a moot point. But as I write this, I wonder if the 04p cab was in use and was unplugged from the UTP and then the potentiometer knob was moved and the unit plugged back in, would it effect the prior speed of the train or would it remember the previous throttle position?

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:51 AM

Espee Black Widow
if the 04p cab was in use and was unplugged from the UTP and then the potentiometer knob was moved and the unit plugged back in, would it effect the prior speed of the train or would it remember the previous throttle position?

I'm pretty sure that the answer is that the speed would be affected.  And there probably would be a pretty good chance of the knob getting tweaked during the unplugging/plugging process.  I'll be at a place where I can try this out tomorrow night.  I'll try to remember and re-post if no one else chimes in with an answer before then.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:15 PM

 Due to the nature of a potentiometer control, there are only two possible outcomes when switching between locos if not stoppign the original one first:

One: you could limit the travel by setting the current position as 'stop' when seelcting a new loco. Of course if the previous loco was running at 3/4 throttle that leaves very little additional range of motion to control the second loco.

Two: You can have the speed of the second loco adjust to the current position of the throttle knob. I'm not sure what NCE did on the 04P, but on the Digitrax Zephyr and UT-4 this is what happens. The new loco gradually speeds up or slows down to whatever speed is selected ont he throttle. This is gradual, it doesn't suddenly leap into action, regardless of any CV 3/4 momentum settings.

Oh wait, there is a third way, in the crazy typically German overengineered ESU system - the potentiometer throttles are motorized, so when you switch to a different loco, the system actually moves the knob to match the speed of the loco. Complex and expensive way to do what would be automatic with an encoder-type control.

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:56 PM

As mentioned, the CAB-04p throttle does have yard mode capability.  You position the potentiometer at 12 'o clock for your zero, then CW = Forward; CCW = Reverse.

Also, the one thing you need to remember to do when switching from yard mode to regular mode is to re-zero the potentiometer BEFORE pressing "0" to return to regular mode - i.e. rotate the potentiometer CCW until it physically stops.  Otherwise, your locomotive will suddenly take off at a high rate of speed because "0" is in a different spot now.  (In other words, the "new" 12 'o clock position becomes 50% power.)

NCE failed to mention this in the CAB-04p manual.  This would be another advantage to the -04e throttle.

Tom

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Posted by Driline on Thursday, January 28, 2010 1:25 PM

maxman
I'm not familiar with any secret features.  However, the 04E can control two separate locomotives at a time, while the 04P can only control one.

 

I don't believe thats true when using an NCE Powercab. I've got an 04E, and the manual says that the cab switch must be set to a certain position, thus unable to control two different loco's. I'm sure the full blown system allows it to operate 2 cabs. I do like the yard mode. It works well, since I am unable to use the yard mode function on my NCEpowercab.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:12 PM

Driline
I don't believe thats true when using an NCE Powercab. I've got an 04E, and the manual says that the cab switch must be set to a certain position, thus unable to control two different loco's.

I did not see any such restriction in the 04E manual, but I was looking at the website manual download, not whatever would have come with a new product.

However, I think you are correct with the PowerCab.  Isn't there something in the PowerCab instructions that says that you can only add one additional cab and that cab's address must be 3?  If this is so, then only one side of the 04E can be used in that situation.

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Posted by CSX Robert on Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:16 PM
Driline

maxman
I'm not familiar with any secret features.  However, the 04E can control two separate locomotives at a time, while the 04P can only control one.
 

I don't believe thats true when using an NCE Powercab. I've got an 04E, and the manual says that the cab switch must be set to a certain position, thus unable to control two different loco's. I'm sure the full blown system allows it to operate 2 cabs. I do like the yard mode. It works well, since I am unable to use the yard mode function on my NCEpowercab.

You are correct. The 04E uses two cab addresses and switches between them when you switch the toggle. Since the Power Cab only allows for one additional cab address, the 04E can only use one address when used with the Power Cab.
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Posted by Espee Black Widow on Monday, February 1, 2010 5:22 PM

I went to the Amherst Show over the weekend and while I was there I stopped by the NCE booth. I asked them about the question of the Cab 04p changing the speed of the train if the position of the knob was changed when it was unplugged and then plugged back in and they said that it would. They also said that the Cab 04e would not change the speed of the train if the knob was turned while unplugged and then plugged back in. The train would remain traveling at the same speed and direction as it was when the cab was plugged in and before the knob position changed. I didn't think to ask them about the limitation on addresses while using a Cab 04e with a Powercab but I'm guessing that you would only be able to control one train with an 04e since the Powercab only supports 2 addresses by itself and assuming that the Powercab control must be plugged in order to work, as it acts as the command station and uses one address itself.

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