I'm building a spare room sized HO railroad. This'll be my first layout in a long time, though I've been in the hobby on and off since I was a kid 45 years ago. I'm wiring it DC, since one of my goals is to become more familiar with electronics. I've found some nice throttles online I can build.
Here's my question for you all. Are there any of you with extensive DC experience that would be willing to correspond and act as my "Yoda"? I've been viewing posts on this forum for some time and there are a number of people who are straight DC proponents and whose knowledge would be very helpful.
For those who feel the need to advise me to go DCC, I have to quote the erstwhile governor of the great State of Alaska.........Thenks but no thenks!
Lou
What type of help are you looking for? I've built my own throttles for my own use and the club I'm in. Do you have any knowledge or experience in electronics? I was trained in the Air Force as an Electronics Technician.
Feel free to contact me via PM or e-mail.
I would also recommend you consider buying a book on DC wiring from our hosts (Andy Sperando's Easy Model Railroad Wiring, available at your LHS or here: http://www.kalmbachstore.com/modeltrains-railroading-model-railroading-books-wiring-electronics.html). Buying a used book on model railraod wiring such as Linn Westcott's or Paul Mallery's would be equally effective. I recommend books for those who have a hard time creating a schematic in their minds from a prose description (almost all of us). I learn better with visual aids like diagrams and photos - especially a subject like wiring. Replicating the excellent diagrams in the books in e-mail or on-line is very time-consuming, considering my limited computer graphic skills. And the books more thoroughly discuss a given topic then e-mail replies can hope to do.
I will be glad to help out with specific issues that a given book glosses over or doesn't address. My assistance won't be at the level of Sheldon's automated DC systems - the level I would be at would be power-routing turnouts, blocking schemes for operations, and perhaps some limited relay logic. This is all I've needed for my small DC layouts. I think I still have most of the original MR articles (in the late '50s) on Route Cab Control and Progressive Cab Control to refer to if need be. I'm not sure whether or not I have the Ravenscroft articles on MZL DC control if you were thinking of that path - I believe these appeared in the '70s.
Here's a picture of a very simple handheld throttle I built in 1976 using an MR article for circuit ideas. I adpated the circuit to 2 pieces so the power transistor was under the layout. This kept the current in the telephone handset cord to quite small to avoid losses.
Fred W
Hunt up a copy of Linn Westcott's How to Wire Your Model Railroad and give it a good read-through. It was written pre-DCC, in plain English with lots of diagrams.
I wouldn't make a good guru - I just might pull a Yoda and die on you. Also, while I do use analog DC, it's modified MZL system and bears about the same resemblance to basic cab control that a high-tech yacht bears to a rowing dinghy. That leaves me like the pianist who can handle Chopin's most complex fingering, but has to stop and think about Chopsticks.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hiya Guys.
Thanks for the timely responses.
Tom, my experience is pretty limited. Built a few Tandy kits as a kid, know how to read a (basic) schematic and know which end of the soldering iron NOT to hold on to. I'm still struggling with the idea that to get a 5 ohm resistor you can parallel two 10's. I still have to get a diagram to keep the relationships in Ohm's Law straight. If whacked enough times with a 2 x 4, I can still learn.
Fred, making my own throttles is one of my main goals. I'd love to build Westcott's TAT-IV throttle or something similar that offers some adjustability for start voltage, top voltage, pulse width and cutoff and so on. I've found some decent looking ones online (but not the TAT-IV) and they don't look too confusing.
Chuck, I should have mentioned in my OP that I've got Andy S's book "Easy Model Railroad Wiring" (if that's the correct title). Good book, well written and pretty clear. I do understand that basics of block wiring, common rail, reversing sections, x-sections and so on. I'm just looking to build and use some of the more refined developments in straight DC.
I know I'll get advice to "drink the kool-aid" and go DCC. I do down at the LHS (except from the owner). After watching the guys at the LHS spend all Saturday afternoon taking the shell on and off, tweaking the CV's, looking up fixes online and just generally cussing up a storm, I don't think I'll dance w/ that girl. I'd just as soon "control the track" as "control the controller".
All of you who offered, or are offering help, I appreciate it. I'll PM or email you if I get stuck. One of the nicest things about this hobby is the willingness of the more experienced to help out the less experienced among us. I'd like to offer my experience as a machinist of 40 years to any of my colleagues who could use it.
Thanks again to all
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
HI Bob,
Thanks for the offer. Yeah, I've checked out the site. Not bad, but I've found some more intrigueing to me.
SeamonsterCount me in for help if you need it. Just PM or email me. Have you tried this site for throttle projects and other model RR projects? http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/ (Sorry, I don't know how to paste in a link.)
(Sorry, I don't know how to paste in a link.)
The below photo should show you how to link your site or any other site. I could not remove the underline. It is not needed.
Rich
If not clear enough. Left bracket url right bracket address left bracket forward slash url right bracket
Note; No spaces between anything.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Lou,
You have been offered help by some of the very brightest minds on here, Fred, Chuck and Tom are all great DC minds, even if they are modest.
Like Chuck, I use a somewhat advanced DC system, based on some of the same concepts Chuck uses.
I too would be more than happy to help in any way possible. Feel free to PM or E-mail any questions you have.
Sheldon
JavelinaHiya Guys. Tom, my experience is pretty limited. Built a few Tandy kits as a kid, know how to read a (basic) schematic and know which end of the soldering iron NOT to hold on to. Fred, making my own throttles is one of my main goals. I'd love to build Westcott's TAT-IV throttle or something similar that offers some adjustability for start voltage, top voltage, pulse width and cutoff and so on. I've found some decent looking ones online (but not the TAT-IV) and they don't look too confusing. Chuck, I should have mentioned in my OP that I've got Andy S's book "Easy Model Railroad Wiring" (if that's the correct title). Good book, well written and pretty clear. I do understand that basics of block wiring, common rail, reversing sections, x-sections and so on. I'm just looking to build and use some of the more refined developments in straight DC.Lou
Tom, my experience is pretty limited. Built a few Tandy kits as a kid, know how to read a (basic) schematic and know which end of the soldering iron NOT to hold on to.
The circuits for the TAT IV throttle appeared in Model Railroader in 1969 (I lost the issue in my last move, when the post office lost a couple of boxes of bound MR volumes on me). There weren't all that many built, but those who did build it reported it as one of the best throttles ever. The problem is finding the components forty years later. It would take some redesign to use today's available components. Kieth Gutierrez of CVP (maker of CVP DCC equipment) might have better insight into this issue. The other issue with the TAT IV was the learning curve of the interdependencies of the various controls - very much like optimizing a Tsunami decoder with all its CVs. One later adaptation was once you had tuned the throttle for a particular locomotive, the settings were recorded in a small plug that would be inserted into the throttle when you ran that particular engine.
The other question to consider in DC throttles (since you or building or customizing your own) is what I call "control style". Do you want a tethered walk-around throttle, a fixed throttle, a simulated engineer's station, or a wireless control system (or one of each )? If a tethered walk-around, do you want throttle memory while you unplug (don't say yes before considering the operational ramifications of a running train you no longer directly control )? If a walkaround (wireless or tethered), how many adjustable functions do you really want (or will use) on the walkaround throttle? Which ones? Do you need a wide range of momentum settings, or just momentum on/off? Or 3 different momentum settings? How much will you actually use minimum and maximum voltages? Do you really want that very slowest tenth of a MPH achievable with pulse adjustments? Or will a fixed pulse rate and height and shape work well enough? Thinking about these issues will help you choose what feature set you want, and what circuit(s) to use to achieve them.
A jab at my DCC friends: Note that the feature set is chosen for you by the DCC system manufacturer. All you can do is choose which pre-packaged set of features you will buy through your throttle purchase selection.
Meanwhile back to DC: Your choice of control and operating style should also dictate where your block and turnout controls are located, and how much automation is appropriate in the block assignment arena. The MZL control Chuck and Sheldon discuss refers to Master/Zone/Local control, which was originally published by Ed Ravenscroft to operate his layout equally well alone or with an operating group.
DC control is really quite a fascinating subject - at least to me.
There was one final update to the TAT line with the TAT V which repalced the discrete components with integrated circuit op amps. Either one will probably require some experimentation as many of the specified components will be unavailable. And while the TAT throttles do some neat stuff, they still output a basic DC varying voltage with pulses mixed in - the PWM method used in newer designs like the Aristo system provides better motor control. I guess the ultimate would be TAT controls putputing PWM to the rails. True BEMF is also possible. Actually, the way to do it these days, it to use a microcontroller like a PIC or ATMEL to do all the 'math' part handled by the array of op amps in the TAT design, although I suppose that goes against the 'simplicity' of DC control. It's just a lot more versatile - depending ont he chip used and how much you want to build you can have varying performance controls depending on engine type and how much train it's supposed to be pulling - like the reistor packs used in the TAT V that modified throttle performance. Check out the Yahoo Model Railroad Electronic group.
SInce Fred brought it up - ALL of the performance characteristics you could want to modify are in all but the crappiest DCC decoders. And you're not limited to what the manufacturer provides - if you don't buy a closed system! I point you to the FRED throttles for Loconet, home made controllers with varying features depending on what you want to add. Digitrax is probably the only system that truly allows this as they freely publish the information you need to make a throttle for their system - none of the others does. With JMRI you can add any desired control device for any system supported - basically all major brnads except MRC. The first such device is the WiThrottle app for iPhone/iPod Touch. Such a concept with an intermediary app to handle the translation would also work in a DC environment, if desired.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy brings up a very good point. The motor control capabilities of a DC throttle and the DCC throttle/decoder combination can be exactly the same. If you took the decoder out of the locomotive and mounted it in the throttle or under the layout, and hook the orange and gray motor wires to the track instead of the DCC system, you would have a pulse width modulation (PWM) DC throttle.
PWM is pretty much standard in DCC as the method to control the motor because it works quite well, but more importantly is efficient - PWM doesn't generate much waste heat to deal with in the confines of a decoder.
There are PWM circuits for DC throttles that are reasonable to build and use readily available components. They are also available as kits and already built. The main catch - and this was a problem for early DCC decoders too - is using a sufficiently high pulse frequency to avoid motor growling and possible overheating of coreless motors. Some PWM DC throttle circuits use 60Hz as their pulse frequency because it doesn't require additional circuitry to generate a higher freq. But as "Silent Drive" and similar DCC decoders have shown, boosting the pulse frequency to above 1KHz gets rid of the problems without sacrificing much in tie creeping ability. Incorporation of BEMF makes slow speed operation even steadier and smoother.
Now a DC throttle doesn't have to worry about efficiency and heat so much - we can mount heat sinks as needed, or as in the case of MRC's ControlMaster 20, use cooling fans. So we are not restricted to PWM as the motor control method. Personally, I prefer pulses to start dying out and being replaced by filtered DC as the motor gets above 6 volts. I feel this is a little kinder and easier on motors. But that's my personal choice.
As I said before, by building your own, you can select what you want in a throttle.
my thoughts, your choices
Granted, it is not a kit like the OP expressed interest in, but since he may not be aware, I will mention that the Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles I use are Pulse Width Modulation throttles and are high freq. with no motor hum and no over heating issues.
The resulting motor control is excelent, and standard DC lighting effects provide excelent constant lighting features.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Granted, it is not a kit like the OP expressed interest in, but since he may not be aware, I will mention that the Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles I use are Pulse Width Modulation throttles and are high freq. with no motor hum and no over heating issues. The resulting motor control is excelent, and standard DC lighting effects provide excelent constant lighting features. Sheldon
Sheldon,
I am using the Aristo Craft Basic (one train) Train Engineer until such time when I upgrade to something else, if ever. It works wonderfully. I am very happy with it as it suits my priorities so far.
Not to hijack the thread, but it might be interesting for the OP to have a bit more information on the constant lighting statement. Its my experience that the lighting does not work well for all locomotives. It seems to work best on certain locomotives and not so well on others. I run only diesel. It works best on early to mid 2000 run Proto's and Atlas Classic's. The newer run P1k GP15 not so well. The Atlas's with the dual mode decoder, even set to the factory default DC setting, the lights do not even come on at all, which is not the case when I use to run those locomotives on the basic power supply/throttle. I'm using a standard Railpower 1370 for powering the Train Engineer, but I believe the differences lie in the PC Board's of the locomotives. It looks like manufacturer's change the circuitry of those board's from time to time, and not just when making them DCC ready. The boards on the Atlas Classic's changed over the years, but even a 2008 run of the U23B and the RS-11, the lighting works great, as you described. It does not work very well on a 2007 run of an RS-1. Both are classics, but the lighting operates differently.
In my situation, the Aristo Craft product improves the constant lighting effects on most of my locomotives, which is one reason I'm very happy with the product. But not all are improved.
It seems as though to get the same lighting effect from locomotive to locomotive, maybe even with a kit that the OP has expressed interest in, the locomotives have to be wired consistently relative to each other. Perhaps my situation is unique. Perhaps my wimpy railpower 1370 is the culprit, but I don't think so.
Doug
- Douglas
Hi All Y'all,
I'm learning already, which was the goal all along. Even though I don't think I'll require wireless (my room's 11' sq) knowing that high frequency pulses are less troublesome than 60hz pulses is useful info for me as I dig through throttle plans. I've found some that do "dissolve" the pulses out gradually like the MRC power packs do. The one I'm using now, a Railpower 1400 is a basic unit but it will allow all my engines to creep very well. One thing that tells me is that my basic requirements are not exotic at all, and a throttle with memory/walkaround capability but otherwise fairly simple will fill the bill. I know I could buy a kit, but with my desire to DIY I think I'll just gather some parts and build one. I've already got a 12.6v. center tapped transformer I bought some time back for another project.
I think the idea of using a decoder to control what is otherwise a DC layout is a novel idea. Seldom do you get a chance to tick off two diametrically opposed parties at once! The DC guys would say you've over complicated the whole deal, and the DCC guys would accuse you of not taking advantage of the medium. Seriously though, I do like the degree of control offered, but wouldn't you have to use a large scale decoder or would a basic HO decoder work once you figured out how to link it to a layout? It's a clever idea in any case.
Thanks to all for providing so much food for thought.
Doug,
First I would excude ANY dual mode decoder equiped locos from my statement. I have found all decoders to be problematic with the Train Engineer in pulse width mode and/or my detection and signaling system. So I remove all decoders, or don't buy locos with them in the first place unless the price is right.
Second, some DC locos wired for DCC, like BLI BlueLine, do not have correct lighting effects on any DC throttle with the "jumpers" installed.
I do not have the Proto1000 GP15, as it is out of my era, but even my brand new DC Proto2000 F7's work just fine.
And, I will admit to not having any Atlas locos since little of what they offer is in my 1954 era.
On a few locos I have had to remove the niose filter capacitor on the jumper board to get good slow speed, but this does not effect the lighting.
Also, while we are here, I remove the motor filter capacitors on ALL Bachmann Spectrum locos and this provides MUCH betterslow speed performance with the Train Engineer. Easily as good or better than any decoder installation I have seen in a Spectrum loco.
I have over 100 locos, Bachmann Spectrum, Proto2000/1000 of all ages/production runs, Genesis, Intermountain, old Athearn w/upgraded motors, Mantua, IHC, BLI/PCM stealth, BLI with the sound/DCC removed, they all work fine.
Since I have no plan for DCC and no interest in collecting or reselling, I modify the few that need such, but all the DC products I have tried work fine, no so with dual mode decoders.
Javelina...I think the idea of using a decoder to control what is otherwise a DC layout is a novel idea...
Javelina...wouldn't you have to use a large scale decoder or would a basic HO decoder work once...
JavelinaI think the idea of using a decoder to control what is otherwise a DC layout is a novel idea. Seldom do you get a chance to tick off two diametrically opposed parties at once! The DC guys would say you've over complicated the whole deal, and the DCC guys would accuse you of not taking advantage of the medium. Seriously though, I do like the degree of control offered, but wouldn't you have to use a large scale decoder or would a basic HO decoder work once you figured out how to link it to a layout? It's a clever idea in any case. Thanks to all for providing so much food for thought. Lou
Going a little astray: It was an illustration - although feasible - to show that DCC and DC are not as different as conventional thinking would indicate. If you look at DC and DCC as black boxes, the inputs and outputs are the same. The "engineer" provides inputs as to what he wants the locomotive to do, and the system puts out a shaped power form to our DC motor that makes it perform the desired action.
Where the 2 really differ is where the power form shaping takes place. DCC puts a decoder in the locomotive to perform the power form shaping. And it adds addressing so that only the selected locomotive takes action. The rails only conduct data communications and the raw power source. Sound and lights are also generated locally as additional outputs from the decoder.
A DC throttle performs all the power form shaping upstream, and puts the finished output on the rails. Thus a subsystem is needed (track blocking) to ensure only the desired locomotive gets the throttle output. If the throttle and controller are separate boxes, an addressing scheme and comms link are needed to connect the controller and throttle. This can be as simple as a 3 wire tether or a full blown wireless throttle bus as in some DCC systems. PFM and other external sound systems, as well as high frequency lighting, all provided their signals through the track as well. The problem is the separation of the sound, light, and motor signals at the locomotive requires some electronics on board - at which point an onboard decoder with local generation of outputs is probably the easier method.
The downside of the onboard decoder has always been space and heat constraints. Both have become less constraining as electronic components continue to downsize, but the constraint is still there to some extent.
Have fun building your throttle, and post some pics when you are done.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doug, First I would excude ANY dual mode decoder equiped locos from my statement. I have found all decoders to be problematic with the Train Engineer in pulse width mode and/or my detection and signaling system. So I remove all decoders, or don't buy locos with them in the first place unless the price is right. Second, some DC locos wired for DCC, like BLI BlueLine, do not have correct lighting effects on any DC throttle with the "jumpers" installed. I do not have the Proto1000 GP15, as it is out of my era, but even my brand new DC Proto2000 F7's work just fine. And, I will admit to not having any Atlas locos since little of what they offer is in my 1954 era. On a few locos I have had to remove the niose filter capacitor on the jumper board to get good slow speed, but this does not effect the lighting. Also, while we are here, I remove the motor filter capacitors on ALL Bachmann Spectrum locos and this provides MUCH betterslow speed performance with the Train Engineer. Easily as good or better than any decoder installation I have seen in a Spectrum loco. I have over 100 locos, Bachmann Spectrum, Proto2000/1000 of all ages/production runs, Genesis, Intermountain, old Athearn w/upgraded motors, Mantua, IHC, BLI/PCM stealth, BLI with the sound/DCC removed, they all work fine. Since I have no plan for DCC and no interest in collecting or reselling, I modify the few that need such, but all the DC products I have tried work fine, no so with dual mode decoders. Sheldon
Thanks Sheldon,
Yes, lighting effects with the Train Engineer works great with all of my proto's, except the GP15, which also tends to have a jack rabbit start as well. It works well with the few Athearn's I have. I only have proto, Athearn, and Atlas.
I figured the dual mode decoder was an impedement, but I bought those locomotives before I bought the CREST system.
I'll replace all of the Atlas Classic's with basic pc board's to fix the issue. The pc boards aren't expensive, if the newer runs will work. Its strange why the 2003 and 2005 vintage boards work, but not the 2007. Neither have the dummy plug that's provided for dcc readiness. Atlas must have changed the circuitry on the newer locomotives, maybe like proto has done with their GP15. Finding the few proper pc boards I need might be a challenge. I wish I knew more about them, or how they could be modified, if possible.
Fred, thanks for helping to clarify some of the points of DCC to me. I really find all the doodads interesting in concept but the execution at this point requires more patience than I have. I see far too much frustration displayed on this forum in regards to DCC to regard it as anything but a distraction. The tethered throttles I've seen that feature walkaround capability all use a capacitor to hold speed for a given time and a latching relay to control direction. I have no desire for sound other than that the train makes. (Actually, I've given thought to modeling electric locomotives just for the "realism".)
I'll keep you posted about any electronics I build, just for fun, and if I have questions I'll bug you, Chuck, Sheldon or one of the other generous lads on this forum.
Harry, Harry, Harry......Boy did you ask the slowest guy in class or what? Seriously, some of the other guys posting replys to my initial question are full of good advice due to their experience levels. I will tell you though, that you're likely to get a lot of advice to not go with a 4 x 8. As I've mentioned to some others, www.layoutvision.com is Byron Hendersons site. He's a pro layout designer and has some really thought provoking alternatives to that traditional shape. He provides some analysis so the reader can understand the limitations of the 4 x 8 and see the rational behind his suggestions. This is a hobby with fascinating alternatives available and one of the most helpful things is the enormous amount of info available so we don't have to re-invent the wheel. Unless we want to (see my original post). Have fun and use the heck out of the web to get info.
"DCC Ready" is an industry joke. The way it's (mis)used in the industry, you could say ANY engine is DCC ready because you can put DCC in anything. DCC Ready can mean anything from "it will take you longer ot get the shell off than to instalol the decoder" to "if you cut here and here, and solder wires there, you can install a decoder". DCC Ready does not mean it has a decoder in it, so it will work just fine on DC.
Worth the price? Depends on what you want to do. Have full control of sound locos? Pretty much need DCC for that. Want to run just one train around a small loop layout? Don't need DCC for that. DCC doesn't have to cost all that much more than a GOOD DC system (by 'good dc system' I don't mean the train set special power packs, which these days go for as much as $50). I see way too much overkill when people get DCC - if you don't plan to have more than 3-4 locos running at the same tiem you don't need a monster 5-10 amp DCC system.
The throttle units I built up are based on an article in the January 1986 Model Railroader. This is a truly DIY throttle that is set up for memory and walkaround, meaning you can accelerate your train, disconnect the controller while the train is running, and plug it in at another location around the layout. The actual throttle itself is under the layout, all you have is a small handheld control that has 5 buttons and an LED on the front, and four resistors and a diode inside. On the club layout we had six throttles, and any of them can be plugged into any outlet. The connection I used is a 25 pin D-subminiature, a common computer connector. Each throttle requires 4 wires, so Cab A is pins 1 thru 4, Cab B is pins 5 thru 8, etc, any control unit can be plugged into any outlet. The handheld unit has only the four wires for that cab attached, and the jacks on the layout have all 24 connections run to the throttles.
Doughless Atlas must have changed the circuitry on the newer locomotives, maybe like proto has done with their GP15.
I don't think you need to change the whole circuit board to fix the GP15. It may well just be a RF filter circuit like on the Bachmann locos that is causing both problems, poor slow starts and the lighting.
If you can trace out the circuit, look for a capacitor right across the motor leads. If you find one, simply remove it. Often these circuits are tuned to a frequency close to the pulse frequency of the TE. This causes the motor to see the TE signal as pure DC, not the puleses, so this could effect the lighting and the starting speed/voltage of the motor.
I have found this to be the case on a number of locos, vertually all Bachmann locos and several recent Intermountain FP units.
On some locos the difference is small/none. On others, the improvement is dramatic. The Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 in particular showed great improvement in slow speed ans slow starting after removing these capacitors. Typically known for not being a great "slow speed" loco, mine now start and run smoothly at or below 3 SMPH. And in the case of this loco, the improvement was noted on both the TE and on conventional DC power packs.
Hope this helps.
Tom,
This is one of the throttles I had been interested in. The disposition of componentry sounds like the walkaround throttle I've been considering. I assume that buttons on the handheld are used for speed control. Do you find buttons as convenient to use as a rotary potentiometer? Does the MR article give the complete build instructions in one or is it spread out over months? Would the components still be available? Before I commit to build the one I've got picked out I'd sure like to see this one. I don't have a problem ordering back issues for a project like this but I want to make sure I'm not drillin' a dry hole first.
Lotsa questions, thanks,
Hi Lou
In case you are still around , here is a link to Andy's Book. Only partial but might be a help..
http://tinyurl.com/ycwdl4j
A lot of links on model railroad wiring below.
http://tinyurl.com/y8jxlky
The Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttles use push buttons as well. I did not know if I would like that at first, but after a few weeks of testing one, I have come to prefer it. It does take dome getting use to, but once you get it, it really works well. In many ways it it more like the controls of a real locomotive, steam or diesel.
One feature that is built into the Train Engineer that may be possible with the throttles you are looking at is auto ramp down/ramp up on direction change. At any speed, if you change direction, using the currently set momentum rate, the throttle ramps down to zero, changes polarity, then ramps back up to the previous setting. This is great for slow speed switching even with the momentum set at zero. It turns three commands into one and results in very smooth operation.
So anyway, I hope this helps with your questions about push buttons vs rotary.
Javelina Tom, This is one of the throttles I had been interested in. The disposition of componentry sounds like the walkaround throttle I've been considering. I assume that buttons on the handheld are used for speed control. Do you find buttons as convenient to use as a rotary potentiometer? Does the MR article give the complete build instructions in one or is it spread out over months? Would the components still be available? Before I commit to build the one I've got picked out I'd sure like to see this one. I don't have a problem ordering back issues for a project like this but I want to make sure I'm not drillin' a dry hole first. Lotsa questions, thanks, Lou
The components of the throttle part that goes under the layout are mounted on a 16 inch piece of 1 x 6 lumber. Each one has its own step down transformer making them a stand alone control, what you load on the other ones has no effect on the one you're using. I have them plug connected so they can be easily removed for repair or troubleshooting.
The handheld is small, and I've used them so much, I usually hold them by my side or even behind me while switching. The buttons are (E) emergency stop, (F) forward, (R) reverse, (A) accelerate, and (B) brake.
The article was published in that single issue, and the components should still be readily available.
Hi Guys,
Rich, I have the first edition of Andy's book. It's a great primer and constant reference. In fact some of the stuff he talks about in the section on throttles whetted my appetite for more, which led me here.
Sheldon, that ramping feature sounds tasty! Does it take practice to get the timing right as to when the switcher reverses? I know with my low-buck railpower 1400, if I focus on the closure rate I can get cars to couple without even rolling backward. That power pack isn't designed for hand held use and it's clumsy to try and one hand it. That 3 moves in 1 effect I like.
All the throttles I'm looking at are pure schematics with only a bare suggestion of enclosures. The walkaround units use 4 wire cables like phone cable/plugs. The handheld unit only contains a potentiometer, reverse switch, leds, and a few resistors. One version has additional switches for a "scaling" feature for the control pot. It allows you to slow down the response for yard work, then go to a more aggresive response for the main. Another has a single unit throttle/reverse control (clockwise from null = faster, counter-clockwise = slower, null stopped) which seems to be a "poor mans" version of the throttle you describe.
I plan on making my own enclosure as ergonomically sound as I can. I'd really like intuitive, one handed use.
Thanks again to all of you,
Lou, I know you are interested in building your own, and don't think you need or want wireless, so I have not tried to steer you in my direction up to this point.
However, as you tell us more, you may want to take a look at the Aristo Train Engineer before you make up your mind.
It is wireless, 27 Mhz radio. The hand held transmitter is very one hand ergo friendly with only five buttons for normal train control. They are: accel, decel, direction east, direction west, emergency stop.
The base unit has the actual throttle circuitry and can be programed for various momentum rates. Coupling does take a little practive, but no more than with a knob, just a little different.
At any slow peed, simply changing direction results in a smooth controlled stop, a slight pause, and smooth accelleration back to the previous speed. This can obviously be used for uncoupling with Kadee magnets or for spoting cars in Kadee "delay" mode. Even the emergency stop is a rapid ramp down so at a slow speed it is a controled, realistic stop.
The accel and decel functions of the Train Engineer are smooth, controled and have some "delay" even with the monentum set to its "minimum" setting.
You shoud know up front, the momentum features are not ajustable from the handheld and are not easily reset for each loco - with the version I use. With the newer locos on the market, I have never felt a need for individual ajustment of momentum/braking effects.
But there is a newer version that allows more advanced programing from the handheld. It is the new Train Engineer Revolution. Actually, I have one of these new ones but have yet to try it on anything or learn about all its features or their implcations for layout based control.
All the Aristo products are designed to allow both trackside control for smaller scales and onboard control of G scale and similar larger scale trains.