Is DC with DCC the way to go for "S" scale??

[Stevert]

jrcBoze

You can even - theoretically - run these 'DC' locos on address '0' with a DCC power system -

That depends on the DCC system you use.  For example, Digitrax accommodates it, while NCE does not.

jrcBoze

until they burn out, that is.

 From what I've read, there are at least as many folks who claim to have not burned out DC locos using address 00 (analog) on a DCC system.  I don't use analog (even though I have a Digitrax system) so I don't have any first-hand experience, but it sure seems to me that "it depends".    

jrcBoze

The DC locos so run also make an objectionable 'buzzing' sound when run by a DCC power system -

 

  Again, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that "it depends", mostly on the motor design and quality.  At the very least, consider that what is "objectionable" to one person may be inaudible to someone else.

jrcBoze

- before they burn out, that is.

 

See above

Steve

[jrcBoze]

 

Hi Stryker -

An earlier poster was correct - due to the situation(s) with S-scale, you are probably going to have to learn a bit more than most of us about electrical control.

You really have three possible control systems: 1) AC; 2) DC; 3) DCC.

I believe that AC will only run the older American Flyer equipment, but I could be mistaken.

There are many discussions / tutorials about DC vs DCC - you have found at least one.

One thing to be very, very careful about. DCC advertises itself as being 'compatible' with DC. While this may be true in some cases, it is not true in a practical sense. In fact, some DCC equipment (older Soundtraxx sound decoders) will BURN UP on DC power (I have letters from the manufacturer stating this).

Further, it is very chancy to set up a layout with part-dc, part-dcc, and expect not to smoke decoders. You hear tales about this happening when a locomotive bridges a gap between sections - very frequently.

It can be avoided, but is best avoided by ditching the whole idea. For safety, stay with DC power packs or DCC power only.

This does not mean you cannot start out with DC locos, and a DC power pack, and learn.  You can even - theoretically - run these 'DC' locos on address '0' with a DCC power system - until they burn out, that is. The DC locos so run also make an objectionable 'buzzing' sound when run by a DCC power system - before they burn out, that is.

If you are at all electronics-savvy, I would go with DCC from the start. If bits and bytes and volts and amps make your eyes glassy, then you might want to start with a simple DC pack and one or two engines, meanwhile trying to learn about DCC. You will (probably) eventually want to go DCC at some time - but not everybody does, either.

Just be very, very wary of claims that DC and DCC can run 'together' on the same layout. You would be inviting costly trouble to try that.

jrc

[fwright]

icemanrulz

 I am trying to find out what is the best way to power an "S" scale layout.  I have not bought anything yet.

The trains are available in AC or DC but I don't know what is best to use.

I am still learning or trying to figure out command control...does it work with either?

I have seen and heard both DC and AC for "S".  but still clueless.

 

Starting with the AC or DC question - it really depends on what locomotives you intend to buy.  S has a history of both American Flyer and scale trains being used together on the same track.

American Flyer used/uses AC, with what is called an E-unit to accomplish reversing.  The same is true of any other "AC" locomotives.  The motors in AC locomotives will run just fine on DC.  But running them on DC still requires an E-unit to get the field windings to the opposite polarity of the armature windings.  There may be problems with horns, whistles, or operating accessories that were designed for DC superimposed on AC - these will sound continuously or do other unexpected actions.

But unless you are building a hi-rail or tinplate layout centered around older American Flyer, you will probably want to use DC.  Motors with permanent magnets - virtually all can motors - operate on DC only.  And the AC motors will also work on DC.  Reversing direction is accomplished by reversing polarity of the track - an e-unit is not needed for permanent magnet motors.  AC motors will still need an E-unit to accomplish sequence reversing.

Realize that most newer "AC locomotives" actually have can motors with rectifiers installed to change the AC to DC, as well as the E-unit for sequence reversing on AC.  These motors will work just fine on DC with the E-unit and rectifier bypassed.

There is no AC command control system available pre-installed for S like there is in 3 rail O.  So the logical choice of command control system would be DCC.  Decoders are readily available and are compatible with all makes of DCC controllers.  DCC provides a DC output to the motors, so either type motor will work with DCC.  The issue is going to be whether the E-unit will work with DCC.  So if you intend to choose the DCC route - either sooner or later - I recommend only locomotives with permanent magnet motors in them.

Bottom line is that because of the dual nature of S equipment, you are going to have to know more about it than you would where only AC or only DC can be assumed from the beginning.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

[icemanrulz]

 Thanks!

I did read that.  I want to be able to run two trains on the same track for sure.  Maybe not in different directions but different speeds yes.  Sound is not a big thing for me but would like at least one train to have it.    I am also wondering if I buy a dcc ready train (locomotive) can any brand dcc run it?

I like the S Helper trains.  But like the Digitrax  DCC  will they work together?

[tstage]

Stryker,

Going DCC depends a lot on how you plan on operating your layout:

• Will you only be running a single train at a time?  If so, there is no real advantage to operating in DCC - i.e. unless you plan on having sound decoders in your locomotives.
  
• Will you ever operate with any additional throttles or operators?  This is where DCC has some advantage. You can operate two (or more) locomotives independently on the same track so that they go in different directions at different speeds.
• Are you interested in signaling or sound?  Although signaling can be accomplished in either DC or DCC, sound seems to work better with DCC.
  

If it were me, I'd personally go with a DC locomotive so that I'd have an easier path going from DC to DCC; should you decide to go that route at a later time.

Stryker, there's a good primer on Tony's Train Exchange web site called DCC For Beginners.  This will help you gain a better understanding of what DCC is and what you can do with it.  You can either read it online or download it onto your computer.

Hope that helps...

Tom

[icemanrulz]

 I am trying to find out what is the best way to power an "S" scale layout.  I have not bought anything yet.

The trains are available in AC or DC but I don't know what is best to use.

I am still learning or trying to figure out command control...does it work with either?

I have seen and heard both DC and AC for "S".  but still clueless.

Still reading!

THANKS!