mikemorey I'll submit another recommendation for the Digitrax DS64. A DS64 can run standalone or on a LocoNet -- and, yes, an NCE layout can have LocoNet. The street price for a DS64 is under US$50 so that's no more than US$12.50 for each set of points controlled. Sure, there are some cheaper options but many features are also given up. Here's what I like best: 4 outputs per DS64. 8 routes per DS64. Routes can be cascaded between DS64s as long as they are connected to LocoNet. DS64 can be powered by track power, AC or DC hardwired power or rear DC power jack. Outputs can be controlled with trackside pushbuttons (needs only one switch per output). Outputs can be controlled by throttles. Outputs can be controlled by computer. It also has at least 4 sensor inputs that can be used for reporting block status from block detectors. If there are no trackside switches used then it has 8 sensor inputs available. Here's an example of a trackside panel I made for a friend's layout that uses DS64s. Behind each number is a tactile switch and behind each green dot is an LED showing the turnout's position. The turnout number is what would be entered on a throttle. An operator can control everything from the throttle and verify the turnouts on the panel or simply press the panel to set the turnouts. Plus, everything can also be controlled via JMRI's PanelPro. DS64s are VERY flexible.
I'll submit another recommendation for the Digitrax DS64. A DS64 can run standalone or on a LocoNet -- and, yes, an NCE layout can have LocoNet. The street price for a DS64 is under US$50 so that's no more than US$12.50 for each set of points controlled. Sure, there are some cheaper options but many features are also given up. Here's what I like best:
Here's an example of a trackside panel I made for a friend's layout that uses DS64s.
Behind each number is a tactile switch and behind each green dot is an LED showing the turnout's position. The turnout number is what would be entered on a throttle. An operator can control everything from the throttle and verify the turnouts on the panel or simply press the panel to set the turnouts. Plus, everything can also be controlled via JMRI's PanelPro. DS64s are VERY flexible.
Have to link as a url, not a picture: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/30004294
That's a neat looking panel.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I guess they used to make the Atlas stuff better way back - I had Selectors and COnnectors fromt he late 60's that I used right through the 80's on a multitude of HO and N scale layouts and NEVER had one fail, or get stuck. The pushbuttons for N scale turnouts, on the other hand... but a CD power suppyl solved that. The OLD pushbuttons for HO, they had a little plastic part that slid back and forth as you pressed the left or right button, and there were pieces to glue on there that showed normal or diverging - those never stuck, and even the early versions of the blue controls for HO, I never had a problem with the HO layouts. Only the ones for N scale, those always stuck and I burned out a lot of coils until I built the CD supply.
NCE has released their Mini panel that will allow pushbutton or toggle input for DCC accessory control - 30 inputs per panel that can control up to 4 DCC accessories per input via macros. The Mini Panel is around $45. Their SW8 accessory card controls up to 8 switch machines at $46 ea. 30 really nice pushbuttons are around $64.
So ($46x4 or 30 DCC controlled switches, plus $45 for 30 inputs on the Mini panel, plus 30 pushbuttons at $64)= $293 $293/30 is $9.76 per turnout. Not too costly for the benefits of having both types of switch control, DCC and Manual on 30 turnouts plus routing capability. Also your cab controller will always be correct with respect to the position your turnouts are in.
RF&Prr
I'm surprised that no one has thought of the fact that with Tortoise machines and any kind of stationary decoder, one can have both DPDT control and DCC control. Some stationary decoders like the DS44 do not have push button contacts (DS64's do, however), but still can be operated with local control. How? Simple...
Wire the DS44 as normal, but when you run the wire from the decoder to the Tortoise, put a DPDT toggle in the circuit and place the DPDT in a convienient location. The toggle acts as a reversing switch. So whenever you throw the toggle, the Tortoise moves. The only drawback is that you lose that whole "clear" vs. "throw" on the throttle command (normally, "clear" means a straight route, while "throw" means the diverging route).
Still, it means one can use the cheaper stationary decoders and still have local and remote control of all Tortoise machines if you want.
BTW, probably my biggest pet peeve in model railroading is the use of Atlas electric switch products on otherwise great looking layouts. It's like opening the hood of a brand new car and finding a hamster wheel powering it. Ick. Not slamming anyone personally, but jeez do I dislike that product line. I once saw an awesome local PRR layout with steel mills, etc., that looked superb...but he used Atlas switches. On one of his blocks, the Atlas toggle had been fused shut. I can't understand how people can spend $1000's on track, trees, buildings, locos and cars and then buy the cheapest, lowest quality electrical devices around. If I"m a snob about anything, it's probably on that subject. I stopped using them when I was 15 years old when I re-wired my father's layout, and it just bothers me to see them in use on great looking layouts. Oh, well...
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
timber2 Thanks abundantly my friend for your message and valuable information. No, indeed, I did not know that some stationary decoders have inputs for manual switches. That gives me something to consider and think about, now, during my planning phase. I will certainly take that information into consideration. Sorry I did not respond to your message earlier; I thought most folks had responded already to my post. It was just a "fluke" that I checked in on my post this evening to see if there were any more responses. Have a nice Christmas. Timber (aka steve)
Thanks abundantly my friend for your message and valuable information. No, indeed, I did not know that some stationary decoders have inputs for manual switches. That gives me something to consider and think about, now, during my planning phase. I will certainly take that information into consideration. Sorry I did not respond to your message earlier; I thought most folks had responded already to my post. It was just a "fluke" that I checked in on my post this evening to see if there were any more responses. Have a nice Christmas.
Timber (aka steve)
On my layout I have three control panels each built differently (I couldn't decide which I liked better). They are: DPDT, DS64 Stationary controller, and DS64 Stationary controller with pushbutton controls on the panel for routes. Of the three I like the third option the best, stationary controller w/manual control panel pushbuttons., That gives me the best of both worlds. I'll be going back and adding pushbuttons on the second panel and I have already purchased the DS64s for the first panel. I just need some time to make the modifications.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Hi from Belgium,
On this same forum, a few post ago, there is one about a circuit board to control yard ladder or cascade turnout with a diode/time liner circuit for Tortoise motors..
Parts and schematic are shared. Even the board is double sided circuit you can use a prefored one to build it. You can switch as many as you want board togheter to control an infinity of turnouts (Tortoise or stall motors cotroled)
Forget the sad debate about the price of the board posted in answer, because anyway a commercialy aviable circuit control will be more expensive than a scratchbuild one.
I will make a ty of this board in the days coming.
Marc
timber2Thanks for your message. I"ve opted to go with control panel and DPDT toggles
Are you talking about a central control panel located at one spot, or multiple small local panels located around the railroad where switching areas are concentrated?
I believe that you have described your railroad as basically an around the room, walk around type layout. I think in your first post you said the dimensions were almost 24 feet along each wall. If you have the central control panel located in the middle of the space, you will be walking 10 to 12 feet back and forth every time you want to throw a turnout. If the panel is along one wall, that distance becomes maybe almost 18 feet in each direction. That doesn't sound like much fun to me, but then I'm not training for a marathon. Of course, if you intend to have a dispatcher doing all the routing, the walking isn't as much of an issue. But then the dispatcher will only normally be throwing the mainline turnouts, so you'd still need some method to throwing the local turnouts. And if you operate by yourself, you're back to the walking thing.
Local control panels sound like a better option in your case, but then I don't know how many of them you want to build.
The other option that you mentioned, stationary decoders, has the advantage of eliminating all of the peripheral panels, toggles, and associated wiring. There is the disadvantage that you do have to use the DCC handset to throw the accessory decoders, if that bothers you. To me the issue of trying to remember the turnout numbers is a non-issue. You can either plant a small milepost looking stake in the ground with a number on it next to each turnout, or you can mount a small track diagram on the face of the benchwork at each location.
Just my opinions, of course.
Regards.
As Texas has posted you can do both. I have used the DCC Specialties Wabbit and they provide for a SPDT input so you can control both ways. Just make sure you use a center off position toggle or the toggle position will override and any inputs from the Procab. Just haven't decided on central panel or remote. Has anyone found a good way to reproduce a layout on the panel? I have one that I have done by hand, but it is just OK. Any suggestions?
Jeff
I know you have already posted with a decision to go with DPDT switches, BUT have you considered that you can go both? Some (many?) of the stationary turnout control decoders have inputs for manual switches. That is a simple switch flip can change the DCC logic so one doesn't have to pull it up on the throttle like a video game to change it. The more advanced aspects of DCC are available to do routing, computer control, central dispatching or whatever.
Also on the manual front - if one uses SPDT center off momentary contacts with AC power source and diodes, then the turnout can be controlled from mutiple locations without have to run two wires between each control point.
So sorry Randy, I meant to say DPDT toggles, thanks for your message.
Thanks abundantly for your input and suggestions. I've opted to go with control panel and DPDT toggles. I meant to say DPDT toggles in the first place, sorry. Indeed, I don't want the complexity of pushing buttons on my controler either. My controlers are also wireless and I do "walk around", but I also want the option to sit at a control panel, directly in front of my turntable-roundhouse-yard and industrial area for switching; your concepts were most valuable, thanks.
Thanks for your message. I"ve opted to go with control panel and DPDT toggles
Thanks much for message, indeed, I've opted to go with control panel and DPDT toggles
Rich,
Thanks much for your message. The responses were most valuable. Without a doubt, I've opted to go with a control panel and DPDT toggles.
You can use SPDT with Tortoises - see the second and third diagrams in the instructions. You use either AC or a bipolar DC power supply with steering diodes which allows a SPDT switch to reverse teh current through the motor.
First - technical issues. I think you need a DPDT toggle, not an SPDT toggle, for Tortoises. (I stand corrected. See below. Thanks, Randy.) You can use an SPDT for twin-coils. The Atlas buttons shown are SPDT. My personal experience, and that of others as well, is that these Atlas buttons are not reliable, and when they fail they often do so in the "closed" position, leading to a fried switch machine.
Now, how do you like to operate your layout? Do you walk around and closely follow your trains, or do you stand/sit at one central location? Do you do a lot of switching, or are you more interested in running trains? How busily do you operate your throttle when running?
Personally, I have a more central control panel approach to running my trains. So, I've opted for the simplicity of toggle switches. I suspect that trying to control turnouts from my throttle would add a lot of complexity, not so much for wiring but more for all the additional button-pushing that would be necessary. I'd need to remember or look up the address of every turnout on the layout. With a schematic, that's easy, but I don't want to carry around a track plan so I can get the address of the turnout I want.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
timber2
In a reply to wiring a yard ladder? cacole provided a link to using diodes to simplify wiring of turnouts and switches; you might want to take a look.
Alan
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
I use DS-64 stationary decoders because of their ability to run routes and cascaded routes.
Obviously toggle switches would be cheaper if they meet your needs and/or desire.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I've gone another route. Rather than a centralized panel, use Atlas switches recess mounted at various locations around the layout. I have a large walkaround layout with wireless DCC throttles so I am walking around the room with the trains. I simply get to the appropriate location ahead of the train and make sure the turnouts are set properly for the desired route. The switches are strung together to create mini panels at various locations around the layout. I have one at each town, one at each end of my main yard, and one at each staging yard. Here is one example:
The turnout switches control the west end staging loop which is on the other side of the tunnel.
I had thought of using stationary decoders but the cost seemed too high for me. Eventually, I will label the switches to help me remember which one controls which turnout, but even without that, I have a pretty good handle on it. That's easier for me than remembering the address of a stationary decoder.
timber2 I have an around-the-walls layout in my 23' by 24' basement where fortunately, the staricase is in the middle of the room. Benchwork is 2' wide on 3 walls and 5' wide on 1 wall where the 7 stall roundhouse, 130' turntable, and 9-track double-end yard are located. I used code 83 flex track with a total of 40 Walthers - shinohara turnouts and Tortoise motors. The layout is double tracked all the way around, with 3 passing sidings on the outer track, and 2 passing sidings on the inner track, with the yard feeding off the inner track. Spurs feed off the passing sidings to industrial facilities. I use 2 NCE Procab controllers which I enjoy immensely. I'm trying to decide whether to use stationary decoders to control the turnouts and routing (which gets pricey) or build a control panel with track plan schematic and spdt toggles to control the turnouts and routing, which is more wiring. I'm in favor of the control panel option as it feels like I'm more of a dispatcher, as well as the appearance of operation. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated (I'd rather benefit from other folks experiences).
I have an around-the-walls layout in my 23' by 24' basement where fortunately, the staricase is in the middle of the room. Benchwork is 2' wide on 3 walls and 5' wide on 1 wall where the 7 stall roundhouse, 130' turntable, and 9-track double-end yard are located. I used code 83 flex track with a total of 40 Walthers - shinohara turnouts and Tortoise motors. The layout is double tracked all the way around, with 3 passing sidings on the outer track, and 2 passing sidings on the inner track, with the yard feeding off the inner track. Spurs feed off the passing sidings to industrial facilities. I use 2 NCE Procab controllers which I enjoy immensely. I'm trying to decide whether to use stationary decoders to control the turnouts and routing (which gets pricey) or build a control panel with track plan schematic and spdt toggles to control the turnouts and routing, which is more wiring. I'm in favor of the control panel option as it feels like I'm more of a dispatcher, as well as the appearance of operation. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated (I'd rather benefit from other folks experiences).
Your layout sounds a lot like mine which is a P-shaped 42'x25' double mainline with a 130' turntable, a 9 stall roundhouse, 8 track freight yard, and a total of 64 Tortoise-controlled turnouts.
I avoided the more costly stationary decoder approach in favor of three strategically placed control panels with DPDT toggle switches and bi-polar red/green LED indicators. True, additional wiring is required but it all looks cool, adds to the fun of operations, add provides a better visual assurance that things are operating properly.
Rich
Alton Junction