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Running an analog loco with MRC Prodigy

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  • Member since
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  • From: Waynesboro, TN
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Running an analog loco with MRC Prodigy
Posted by tnhllblly06 on Monday, October 19, 2009 4:19 AM
With my retirement fast approaching (two weeks!), I will soon have LOTS more time to devote to my layout.  Step 1 will be converting from DC to DCC.  I have read as much as I can on the subject, and am still undecided about which system to purchase.  I am leaning toward Digitrax or MRC. However, there is one question that I can not find a definitive answer to.  Can you run a decoder-less loco on the layout with the Prodigy Advance system?  Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on the subject.
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Posted by CSX Robert on Monday, October 19, 2009 5:40 AM
No.
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Posted by simon1966 on Monday, October 19, 2009 7:27 AM

No the MRC can not.

The Digitrax can, but this feature has limited appeal IMO.  Now I am a Diigtrax user and a strong advocate of the system due to the quality and ease of use of the system.  I thought that I would use the DC capability often, but find that it has some draw backs that you really need to be aware of, especially if this is your one and only deciding factor.

First you can only control one DC loco at a time.

Second, there is in most cases a high pitched buzzing harmonic sound that attenuates and warbles as you adjust the throttle setting.  There is frequently a buzzing sound when the loco is stationary.  I find this noise annoying.

It is said that if you leave a DC loco on the track too long that the motor will burn up.  I have never experienced this, and have deliberately left a DC loco on the track buzzing for hours with no adverse affects.  So not sure if this is a myth worthy of myth-buster attention, or is a real problem.

Fourth, the performance, in terms of top speed, is significantly reduced between the DC loco on a DC layout and running on the DCC layout. 

Having said all that, there are time when I do run a DC loco on the Digitrax layout.  First when I get a new DC loco, I like to test run it before installing a decoder.  I also have some old locos from my childhood that are simply not worth, or too hard to convert, and I like to give them a nostalgic run from time to time.

I used the DC feature much more early on, but rarely use it now as the sound really is annoying.

I am not trying to put you off, but think it is important to understand the pros and cons of a feature.

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by JoeinPA on Monday, October 19, 2009 8:27 AM

 I will agree with Simon. I started in DCC with an MRC Command 2000 system and soon tired of it's limitations.  I purchased a Digitrax Zephyr system with the idea of running my old favorites without decoders for a while until I could add decoders to them.  I  soon tired of the humming, whining poor performance and added decoders.  I've been very happy with my choice since then.  I point that you may want to consider in your choice is the easy upgrading path with Digitrax and others.  At present the MRC systems - which are very good systems - are limited in this respect. I think we all start out with the "I won't need that feature" mentality and then find out later as we become familiar with the technology that we really do want it.

Joe

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Posted by simisal on Monday, October 19, 2009 10:16 PM

I use the MRC Prodigy Advance and very happy with it. I do have some engines without decoders in them at this time. My layout originally was set up for DC with toggle switches to switch between two different power packs. Now what I do if running DCC, I throw the switches to the Prodigy. If I want DC, I just throw the switch for the standard power supply. I do remove the DCC engines from the layout while using the DC system. I don't run the DC very often but I can also test new engines this way prior to installing decoders in them.

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Posted by tnhllblly06 on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 3:32 AM
Thanks for the responses. I don't have any DCC locos at the moment, and wanted to test my wiring as I went with an analog loco.  From the sound of things, I think I'll convert a couple of engines before I do or decide on anything else.
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Posted by seacoast on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:36 AM

Not to go off on a tangent and with all due respect to MRC, it seems the lack of the computer interface JMRI? seems to be a turnoff for DCC users who want that added feature in the future. I have seen MRC in action at shows and an area club and its seems to work fine as well as Digitrax which works well at a large N scale layout.

Do any of the DCC systems support DC locomotives without all the interference as mentioned above?

George
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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:53 AM

seacoast

Do any of the DCC systems support DC locomotives without all the interference as mentioned above?

 

Above this message someone said Digitrax will run DC locos. The Bachmann EZ Command will run DC locos. No control over the sounds by either system, plus the motors buzz even when the DC loco is stopped. If you understand the technology, you will realize this is normal. Can be annoying. Most people switch to full DCC.

Don't know what you mean by interference.

More DCC info.

http://www.loystoys.com/info/how-dcc-works.html

Running DC locos.

http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/DCC-waveforms/DCC_waveforms.html

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by CSX Robert on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:00 AM
seacoast
Not to go off on a tangent and with all due respect to MRC, it seems the lack of the computer interface JMRI? seems to be a turnoff for DCC users who want that added feature in the future...
MRC does have a computer interface now, but they alienated a lot of users by not giving JMRI developers the information needed to make JMRI work with it(This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me. MRC is not selling their software, you only have to buy the interface, which you would still have to do if it would work with JMRI. I don't see allowing JMRI compatibility doing anything but increasing their market share). MRC likes to talk about how "easy" their software is to use when compared to "others," of course it's easy when compared to JMRI, it has nowhere near the capabilities of JMRI.
seacoast
Do any of the DCC systems support DC locomotives without all the interference as mentioned above?
No. The buzzing and heating of the motors is inherent to the method used(called zero bit stretching) to run a DC engine on a DCC layout. You are basically feeding the DC motor with a form of AC. As far as motors overheating, some motors are more susceptable to it(never run a non-DCC engine with a corelss motor on a DCC layout). N-scale seems to be more susceptable than HO, the smaller motors just have a harder time dissipating the heat. I've used zero bit stretching some and don't really like it, but I know some users use it quite often and are happy with it.
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Posted by Stevert on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:05 AM

seacoast

Do any of the DCC systems support DC locomotives without all the interference as mentioned above?

 

 By "without all the interference" do you mean without the noise some DC motors make when you run them on address 00?

  The answer to that is generally no, because it's a characteristic of running s DC motor on what amounts to a type of AC current.  

  But how objectionable that noise might be is a function of the particular motor and the tolerance of the person who has to listen to it.  Some motors are worse than others, and some folks are less tolerant of it than others.  That's why some folks say it's a good feature to have, and others don't.

Steve

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Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:48 PM

 The Prodigy Advance Squared works ok but I have found it's weakness in how many accessories it can run IE: stationary decoders. It's the reason why I switched to NCE and gave the Prodigy to my son for the N-scale layout.

Just my 2 cents worth, I spent the rest on trains. If you choked a Smurf what color would he turn?
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Posted by mfm37 on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:37 AM

tnhllblly06
Thanks for the responses. I don't have any DCC locos at the moment, and wanted to test my wiring as I went with an analog loco.  From the sound of things, I think I'll convert a couple of engines before I do or decide on anything else.

 

 

Go ahead and do all of your testing with DC. Just be sure to use plenty of feeders and a decent sized bus.

We test every NTRAK layout with DC before we switch the power out to DCC. One time we used a 12 volt auto jump box to test because the house electric was temporarily turned off.

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Posted by seacoast on Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:49 AM

CSX Robert thanks for the information, that clarifies many issues, your very well versed in the world of DCC.

George

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