Hello all! So I have a few DCC questions I'm sure will be easy for you guys to answer. First lets cover the basics. I run HO scale. I have only a small spare bedroom for my layout. My table size is 9x4x4. It's the shape of an inverted upside down "L". The long part of the "L" is 9x4. The small part of the "L" is 4x4.
Wow thats kinda hard to explain. LOL.
With my size restrictions I only ever plan to run 3 trains tops. I'm running 2 at the moment the old fashioned way. (DC) I'm still very new to model railroading. I just dont like the "feel" of the blocked section of tracks, and pushing a bunch of buttons for switches and whatnot.
A local train club was nice enough to let me see their awesome layout and some DCC trains run on them. I like the ability to have really indepent controll over multiple trains.
Whhhew. Didn't expect this post to be so long.
On with the questions.
First the system I'm looking at starting with is the Bachmann 44902 EZ Command DCC Control System. Is this all I need to get up in running? or are there more things I need to purchase to be ready to run trains in DCC?
Since I don't know a lot about DCC I'll tell you what I'd like to be able to do. And if this system is capable.
Run at least 2 trains smoothly.
Be able to run locs with sound.
At some point have the ability to an extra controller (throttle, whatever you call it)
I've seen the wireless controller/throttles for the system mentioned above. A bit pricey, but I'm assuming I'll be able to have multiple controllers if I want?
Also what about switches and whatnot. Can they be controlled through DCC? If so what will I need to do/learn to convert to DCC.
Ohh one last final question. I have a good portion of my mainline in life-like power loc track. I know I know its not good. :)
Another noobie mistake. But I got a nice lot on ebay for not to much cash. It's also the steel not the nickel. I've heard that DCC system and steel track can have problems? Sence learning this I've gone with atlas track. I plan at some time to replace all the power loc track, but might not be for some time. Will this be an issue with a DCC setup?
Any and all suggestions are appricated. Also any good links to DCC for dummies :) would be great! Thanks all in advance for taking the time to answer my questions.
--J--
Stay away from steel track. Go with Nickel Silver.
The bachmann unit will run 2 trains without a problem. With DCC it's all about budget. How much do you have available to spend?
Springfield PA
Hello, and welcome.
Yes, the EZ Command will get you started, but it isn't enough. Your currently DC engines will need a way to understand the digital signals in the rail power. That means a motive decoder has to be installed safely and properly in each engine. Not a big or expensive job for someone with so few engines and just getting started, but you can appreciate that someone 20 years into the hobby with 50-100 engines is going to face a real headache...and expense!
If you also want your engines to have sound, you can expect a lot more complication...at least, your costs go up a lot and you must have speakers installed somewhere in the loco. It isn't always straightforward, particularly if you have to 'create' the space for the speaker and its mandatory enclosure or baffle. No baffle, no sound!
For DCC to work railwise, any track that is properly hooked up to the power will work...doesn't matter much who makes or distributes it. If it is clean, well joined at each joint, and properly fed with power feeders every few feet, your DCC system and its listening decoders will do just fine. The exception may be brass track if local atmospheric conditions make surface corrosion is a problem. If you find that your steel track begins to rust a bit, wipe it down with Wahl's clipper oil.
Go to Tony's Train Exchange (google it by that name) and find his DCC primer.
Good luck!
-Crandell
Avoid steel track. Nickel silver is much better though a bit more expensive. The EZ-Command is good as a bare bones starter system for someone who just wants to run trains. It has zero CV programming ability so you'll have to get someone with a better system to program them. As far as a descent motor decoder (no sound) you could give the Digitrax DZ125 a try. It's really small so it can fit into tight spaces. It can be gotten in hard wire or plug versions.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Thanks for the replys! I know steel track is a no-no. :) Couple questions. What do you mean by "isn't enough"? Is it enough for the scenerio I explained above. 2-3 trains? multiple controllers?
Belive it or not I haven't had much problem with the power-loc track other than its steel...:)
Yeah I only have a couple locs and I only plan on instaling a decoder on one. I was planning on asking for a couple new locs DCC rdy for my birthday. Should I not buy a certain loc with and already equipped decoder? or are they all able to work on any DCC system? Also the same questions about locs with sound?
Also what is this programing needed? Why would I have to have someone with a "better system" program them for me?
I'm confused...
Thanks again for the reply's!
Cheers,
--==J==--
If you're still confused, you might want to visit a local club or hobby shop that has a DCC layout and ask to learn the basics. They will more than likely will let you run a train to see how it works. It worked for me and that is when I had the Ah Ha moment.
Will
Karma-J-...What do you mean by "isn't enough"? Is it enough for the scenerio I explained above. 2-3 trains? multiple controllers?...
First, the EZ Command is a somewhat less than barebones DCC system. It will let you run the trains, but not adjust many of the configuration variables resident in the software in your decoder. Other systems allow you to tune the engine's behaviour to make it more realistic in some respects.
By not enough, I meant that I wasn't confident you understood the need for more than just the DCC system. Your engines need something else besides being able to run on the DC rails. They need a decoder installed, and if sound is desired, you need speakers and sound decoders.
The hand-held throttles on most sytems permit the easy control of only one engine at a time, whereas the Digitrax DT400 throttles have two encoder knobs on them. Each one can control an engine concurrently. So, you would certainly not need another DT400 for operating two engines simultaneously by yourself.
Karma-J-...Also what is this programing needed? Why would I have to have someone with a "better system" program them for me?..
The EZ Command, as I had alluded, is deficient compared to virtually every other commercially available controller. It will not permit you to access the CV's for momentum, start voltage, speed tables, high and low (max and min) voltage, and inertia...just as a few examples. Real engines don't lurch into motion and accelerate quickly unless they were GG1's pulling four heavyweights. They take some time to accelerate to track speed. You must set all decoders to do this, but the EZ Command can't help you to do this. The more costly and advanced systems can. Any of them, including the EZ's newer brother, the Dynamis.
So, if you know an indulgent and patient friend who won't mind doing some programming for you on his own system, then the EZ Command might just work. I don't know if it can reset decoders to factory defaults, but it it can't then this person will have to do that for you occasionally when a glitch happens inside the decoder and then reprogramme all your settings.
We won't get into Decoder Pro and obviating a more sophisticated DCC system. We can talk about that, but it is an option...with some additional expenses.
First thing is congratulations your lie as you now know it will never be the same. Your one of us now........lol As mentioned stay away from anything but nickle silver track, you may want to invest in some books put out by various companies about model railroading and dcc etc.MR has plenty of good resource material. A good piece of advice which I did not heed was don't jump in be patient and do a lot of research beofre you comit to building a layout, buying a dcc system etc.
The whose dcc system is better question is a kin to the old Ford, Chevy, Mopar argument there are a lot of good systems available and a few that you should avoid. Not for the reason so much that they are junk but rather that they have a lot of limitation in regard to how many trains you can run how many addresses you can program how much power they have etc. One thing we all do in the hobby is eventually upgrade equipment as we become more knowledgeable and fall into the trance and just open our wallets more and more willingly, but it's fun so who cares. I have now subscribed to the less is more theory where as I now prefer to have less equipment of better quality then a whole slew of cheap to mediocre stuff. This is all predicated on how deep your pockets are. One thing I can say for sure if you have a question and can't get it answered here there isn't an answer for it yet.
A good DCC system to start with is the Digitrax Zephyr. It can easily run 3 trains and can serve as a base for future expansion as everything Digitrax makes will work with it. It will work with any NMRA compatible decoder (avoid MRC decoders) and has CV readback so programming the CV values is easier. With CV readback you can easily see what the currently programmed value of any CV is (some decoders (very few) don't support this feature) before you change it and you don't have to keep them written down someplace. I have a few locos that have addresses different from their cab numbers. If I forget what the address is I just put the loco on the program track and read back CV 1 and I have the address. Some day I'll get around to changing the addresses on these units. It only takes a minute.
ok thanks a bunch everyone! :) I did some more reading on the NRRMA and I think I'm understanding this a bit better.
I do want the ability to run multiple trains with out a problem. I can also fully understand that you want a system that will grow with you as you progress through the learning curve. I'm not to sure that I'll ever really need all of the more advanced functions that some of the pricey DCC system offer.
Also cost is a factor. I know all to well you get what you pay for when it comes to electronics. I'm just not sure i need to have a system that can controll loc lights, slow start and realistic slowdowns. At this point in the hobbie I just enjoy runnning trains, and would like to have the ability when a freind is over to have two trottles going for true 2 train independent operation.
I'll have to research some more.
Karma,
If cost is a real factor AND...you just want to run trains...the E-Z Command will do a decent job for you. It has 9 pre-programmed address slots and can control speed, turn on and off headlights, operate 8 sound functions (F1-F8), and allow you to run one DC locomotive. (You can also add a remote cab to it with the I/O connector on the back panel.) If you do decide to go this route, find the best price you can on one.
I started out with the E-Z Command and only paid $52 for it. (It was going for $100 MSRP at the time.) You might be able to find one inexpensive and/or used on eBay. [Just checked. The cheapest is Buy It Now NIB for $59.95, plus S&H. There is also one being bidded on that currenly at $40 with a little over a day left.] Train shows in your area might also be a good source for deals.
For entry level DCC systems that will allow you to tweak your locomotives, either the Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Power Cab would be great choices. Either one has the ability to add throttles to them. The Power Cab is limited to only one extra, though. It's a command station, booster, and throttle rolled-up-into-one. You can add up to 10 extra throttles to the Zephyr.
The Zephyr also has two "jump ports" that will allow you to use up to two DC power packs as extra throttles. That would be a quick way to add a throttle or two. However, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe you'd be limited to DC locomotives with this method. You would still need a UT4 or DT400 throttle to run a DCC-equipped locomotive. With the Power Cab, a CAB-04/-05, ProCab or even another Power Cab throttle would work.
Anyhow, hope that helps, Karma. Let us know what you decide to do.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Karma, . On the E-Z Command, I used mine for 3 years and enjoyed it then I bought a Digitrax Super Empire Builder with there DT 400 throttle so I now only use the EZ on the work bench. But it is a great way to get started, for a long time I did not want to play with CV's, so the EZ was just fine.
What I would suggest is buy a EZ of E-Bay they go for around $30.00 to $75.00. That will get you up and running, and they will run sound engines. I ran 3 BLI sound engines with mine. Then, when or if you need to work with CV's get a Digitrax PR 3 and PS 14 power supply or like hardware so you can run Decoder Pro on your computer.
http://www.digitrax.com/menu_computercontrol.php
PR 3 is the computer interfaces hardware and Decoder Pro is a free program. Makes programing so easy. Much easier than any DCC system! Mine cost with power supply $65.00.
If you are on a tight budget look at Atlas flex track. Way cheaper only $3.00 for 3 foot and is NS. It will take a little while to get the hang of laying it, but not hard.
Running DCC sound engines on DC. When I got my first BLI Class J I ran it on DC with no ill effects, guess I ran it that way for a month or so. Then I got the E-Z Command and left the DC world.
Far as DCC engines, with out sound I love my Protos 1000's and 2000's. I have yet had a problem with one, low power draw, smooth and quite. You will need to add a decoder but 95% of the time easy to do.
Sound engines, I love my Blue Line diesels. Great sound and pull well. Now they are a little harder to work with, they have a sound decoder but you have to add mobile decoder. Again not hard, easy install but there are a few tricks to setting both decoders to the same address.
http://factorydirecttrains.com/
I would avoid Athearn RTR engines, I have had back luck with them. They take more power than the Protos and can cause the decoder over heat and cook it self. Or as we call it, Letting The Smoke Out.
Main thing is real a lot about DCC. It is simple, but a simple mistake can cost you decoders.
Good luck with your quest.
By the way, I bought Tstage old E-Z, so it has been working for 4 years now.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
tstage The Zephyr also has two "jump ports" that will allow you to use up to two DC power packs as extra throttles. That would be a quick way to add a throttle or two. However, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe you'd be limited to DC locomotives with this method. You would still need a UT4 or DT400 throttle to run a DCC-equipped locomotive. With the Power Cab, a CAB-04/-05, ProCab or even another Power Cab throttle would work. Tom
Tom, unfortunately you are wrong in saying the jump ports of the Zephyr will limit you to only DC engines. I did run DCC engines with these jump ports.
Jack W.
To be more clear on the jump ports, they can host two DC power packs as additional throttles. It is recommended that these power packs be smooth, in other words, no sudden speed variations. This gives you three throttles to control locomotive addresses.The throttle knob and direction lever on the Zephyr is called the local throttle. The throttle and direction control on the DC packs are called respectively jump 1 and jump 2. The JUMP key on the Zephyr (2nd down on the second row) is used to cycle through the three throttles. In this way up to three DCC addresses (locos) can be controlled at one time through one Zephyr. When you cycle through the throttles the display screen on the Zephyr will tell you the address of the loco being controlled by each throttle. If the main throttle is controlling loco 3856 you will see 3856 in the display when the local throttle is keyed. If the address of the loco on JUMP 1 is 481 then 481 will be displayed when the JUMP 1 is keyed. The same goes for JUMP 2 and it's loco address.
jalajoietstage The Zephyr also has two "jump ports" that will allow you to use up to two DC power packs as extra throttles. That would be a quick way to add a throttle or two. However, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe you'd be limited to DC locomotives with this method. You would still need a UT4 or DT400 throttle to run a DCC-equipped locomotive. With the Power Cab, a CAB-04/-05, ProCab or even another Power Cab throttle would work. Tom Tom, unfortunately you are wrong in saying the jump ports of the Zephyr will limit you to only DC engines. I did run DCC engines with these jump ports.
Thanks for clarifying that, Jack. You know, in retrospect, I should have drawn that conclusion. I know that the Zephyr can run one (1) DC locomotive. Why would you have two jump ports if you could only run one locomotive?
Anyhow, thanks for clearing that up.
Karma-J-Since I don't know a lot about DCC I'll tell you what I'd like to be able to do. And if this system is capable. ...At some point have the ability to an extra controller (throttle, whatever you call it) I've seen the wireless controller/throttles for the system mentioned above. A bit pricey, but I'm assuming I'll be able to have multiple controllers if I want?
...
Bachmann's wireless system, the EZ Command Dynamis, is a completely separate system and is not compatible with the original EZ Command(does this remind anyone else of MRC's Prodigy->Prodigy Express/Advanced/Wireless upgrade path?). With the Dynamis, you can only use one throttle unless you upgrade it to the Dynamis Pro(then you can have a grand total of four controllers, not exactly what I would call a "Pro" system).
Thanks again all!! I really appricate the well thought out reply's. :) At this point in my journey through this hobbie, I think a simple DCC system like the one I mentioned will be just fine to suit my needs for the time being.
I know that for now a lot of the CV functions I really don't care about. I just want independent control and the ability to have me and a friend both be able to run trains. I belive the Bachman EZ system will do this for me, and let me work my way up into a bigger system if I feel the need.
As far as the track question and statements. I'm currently building my first layout. With some previous modeling and painting skills I went with a more advanced layout. I'm constructing a freelancer layout of a Pennslvania route. A 1930's theme and the Shamut & Northern train line. Which as we all know later all small company's were obsolved and became the PRR. My wifes Grandfather worked for this line in the 30's. He passed away this year and in honor to him I'm building this layout.
I would say I'm 50% done. I have my track layed (not tied or secured yet). Like I said in my first post, I bought a large lot of power-loc track on ebay when I first started this project. This PL track right now is my mainline running the dogleg around my track.
Now all my moutain passes, ground stuff i.e. turnouts to sawmill, coal yard. ect are all on atlas nickel. I plan to phase out the power-loc most likely on my next layout.
I'm in the painting and ground cover/tree/bushes stage LOL on my mountains. Which run the length of the back part of the table with two tunnels 1 on a upper section and 1 on a lower. After that I have all my main pieces, sawmill, coal yard, tipple, tower all painted and ready. Just really need to pin down the track, ballast and do my ground cover and tress. :)
Thanks again to all who took the time to help answer my questions. I'm happy to be joining the DCC club and look forward to someday being able to lend advice to some like myself who is just starting. :)
-==J==-
Ok so hopefully if I understand it right, this is what I'm looking at. My questions are is this all I should need to get up and running with DCC correct?
here are some links to help you.
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/bac-44902.htm
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/bac-44907.htm
So if i bought these two items. I would be able to hook them up on my current layout. and be able to have 2 indiepent operators, running multiple locs correct? Is there any thing else I need to buy? I was looking in the pic of the Bachman EZ DCC and the plug looks weird....? as far as hooking it up to the track. Am I missing something?
Thanks again!
Although I can't vouch for the extra throttle because I never owned one, the E-Z Command does come with everything you need to get up and running - minus the decoder you will need for your locomotive(s). It should contain the following:
The decoders you will need to purchase and install separately. You can, however, run a DC locomotive on address 10.
I believe there are a couple of different types of wiring connectors included with the E-Z Command but I can't remember for sure. Ken (Cuda Ken) should know.
Gosh Tom, it been 3 years now. I think 1 was set up to hook to a terminal section with eye lets to put screws through, other had rail joiners hooked to the wires for Atlas type track. They where cut up from day one with me having power blocks all ready.
Karma, welcome to the world of DCC!
Later on you may out grow the E-Z, but you will have fun while you do it.
When you want to play with CV's and you will! Look at the PR 3 again using Decoder Pro, I never use my Digitrax system to write CV's.
Need any tips let me know. Looking forward to seeing some pictures as well.
My old EZ-Command has three different track connectors. One with the Bachmann connector, one with the screw connectors and one with bare wires. It also had a wire to connect a Bachmann DC speed controller/power pack to the EZ-Command. Using this would free up address 10 for DCC use and a DC loco could be controlled with DC controller.
If you are near enough to M B Klein (model train stuff) for a personal visit they have a test layout in the store. It has an EZCommand installed as well as a Zephyr and Powercab to try out.
Sadly the only hobbie store specalizing in trains is 120 miles from me. It's located in Tucson Az. I'm pretty sure that the EZ-control will be fine for me for a while. I know there may be a point where I might want to adjust speed levels/realism stuff etc.
But right now just being able to run multiple trains w/ sound will be a HUGE upgrade for me, and the ability to have a friend over and take control of one of the trains is all I really want at this point.
Another question. I have one power-loc switch (remote controlled) and I have 3 atlas remote switches as well. Will I be able to use these after I convert to DCC? I read and if I understand there is a microchip board that you can buy that will run your switches/convert them to be able to read a DCC code. Is this correct?
EDIT: Also will the unit in question Bacjman EZ command be able to read these singals. From what I've read I belive it will, just need a bit more clarification on what type of decoder I will need etc etc.
Thanks again guys your help and advice has been invaluble to me in this early stage of my model railroading career. :)
You will not be able to operate the Power-Loc and Atlas turnouts with the EZ-Command. They will have to be operated with their own remote switch machines. The only remote turnouts that can be operated by the EZ Command are the Bachmann DCC turnouts.
Hmmmm....So is this becuse it's a cheaper system? that it only supports it's own switches? Are the rest of the DCC units out there the same?
Kinda pricey at $40.00 a switch. Especially when I've already invested well over $100.00 in switches already.
Another question. Would I be able to keep my current switches and have them hooked up to an old DC power pack and keep them remote (still having to push a button) while running DCC?
I would think so as the only electrical input to the switch from the control box is to the switch machine, but would this effect the DCC?
This is a big factor for me and making my decision.
Thanks again really for all your replys!!
Karma-J- Another question. Would I be able to keep my current switches and have them hooked up to an old DC power pack and keep them remote (still having to push a button) while running DCC?
Karma-J-Hmmmm....So is this becuse it's a cheaper system? that it only supports it's own switches? Are the rest of the DCC units out there the same?
Ahh ok. Got ya. Thanks again for all the great reply's!!
Karma-J- Hello all! So I have a few DCC questions I'm sure will be easy for you guys to answer. First lets cover the basics. I run HO scale. I have only a small spare bedroom for my layout. My table size is 9x4x4. It's the shape of an inverted upside down "L". The long part of the "L" is 9x4. The small part of the "L" is 4x4. Wow thats kinda hard to explain. LOL. With my size restrictions I only ever plan to run 3 trains tops. I'm running 2 at the moment the old fashioned way. (DC) I'm still very new to model railroading. I just dont like the "feel" of the blocked section of tracks, and pushing a bunch of buttons for switches and whatnot. --J--
OK, it's a bit off topic but somebody has to bring it up...you're building an HO layout that's 4' wide and planning on running three trains?? If you mean three continous run loops running at once, you're going to have trouble. Considering in HO an 18" radius curve is generally considered an absolute bare minimum curve, you could do two tracks, the outside 22"R and the inside 18"R. You could have a third engine doing some switching inside of the 18" radius curve loop, but unless you're running very small equipment or streetcars you really couldn't do a tighter curve inside of the 18"R and expect reliable operation.
What I would suggest, since you have a fairly small space, is look into building a single-track continous run using 22" radius as your minimum radius. You still will not be able to run everything that's out there (large steam engines and long passenger cars won't fit, or at least won't look right) but most things will work OK. Having just one line allows you to use the remaining space for industry spur tracks, city buildings, scenery etc.
You could still go DCC, maybe within the 22"R mainline have use some 18" curves to create a logging branch or an industrial switching line. A small switch engine can be working the branch while a larger engine runs on the mainline.
You may want to check out the "World's Greatest Hobby" DVD and video, it covers building a 4 x 8 layout in HO and discusses track, scenery, buildings etc. in a good overview.