sorry fred didn't mean to mislead you there. i knew a walk around throttle was just that, a throttle, i didn't mean to make it sound like i thought it would be used as a seperate throttle for a multiple trains. thats why i asked about block control, i know with dc and running multi trains you have to use block control and i do beleive a different power pack. after looking at my modeling concepts a little more i could possibly run double headers but not two seperate trains so i don't even think i will need block control.
it was a just trying to use what i had to make cheaper costs, but i sort of forgot that the zephry can use a power pack as second stationary throttle. i think i will wait till i have a track plan done to see which way to go, it should give me a better idea. my hand is still healing so i haven't been able to do much with it yet besides re-read back issues of MR. i'm starting to learn to use the caps button though for capalizing, sure makes it easier than having to try and hold downt he shift button and type.
MILW-RODRI've decided to go with N scale which shot the possibility of sound out the window and once again brought up the discussion of DC or DCC. The layout (undetermined size right now) will be big enough to use walk around throttles, but will only have at most 2 trains running running through the same scene. 1. Is there a good source for pre-made DC walk around throttles that will work with my Railpower 1400 (non-pulse control) DC power pack?
I've decided to go with N scale which shot the possibility of sound out the window and once again brought up the discussion of DC or DCC. The layout (undetermined size right now) will be big enough to use walk around throttles, but will only have at most 2 trains running running through the same scene.
1. Is there a good source for pre-made DC walk around throttles that will work with my Railpower 1400 (non-pulse control) DC power pack?
The earlier posts in the thread gave you some ideas for pre-made throttles. Reading your question again, I sense that you think that wiring a walk-around throttle to your Railpower 1400 will give you a second throttle to control a second train.
The response is not so simple. If your walk-around throttle can use an AC input, AND you do NOT use common rail wiring, the walk-around throttle can be powered from the Railpower AC terminals. This assumes the Railpower puts out enough power to run 2 trains simultaneously - probably true for single-headed trains in N scale. A rating of 12VA should be enough as long as you are not doubleheading.
Your walk-around cannot hook to the Railpower DC terminals because those are controlled by the Railpower knob and direction switch.
2. How would I wire the track/power pack for walk around throttle control?
Without the walk around throttle, you are just wiring the DC output of the Railpower to the track - one wire to each rail. With 2 throttles (walk around or fixed), the track is broken into electrically isolated sections called blocks. Each block has a toggle switch that selects which throttle controls a particular block. Any of the wiring books I suggested earlier will discuss this in more detail.
The NMRA has some online guides to help with wiring at http://www.nmra.com/beginner/wiring.html and http://www.nmra.com/beginner/extended.html. The books I mentioned take things a little slower and more completely. But if these links are good enough, you can save the cost of a book.
The NMRA wiring used in the extended layout example only insulates 1 rail and the block toggle switch only connects to one rail (called common rail wiring). If you hook your walk around throttle to your Railpower AC terminals instead of a separate transformer, you will need to insulate both rails and have six terminals on a DPDT toggle instead of 3 on an SPDT toggle. You cannot use common rail wiring if both throttles are powered by the same transformer.
And FWIW, ignore all the blather about DCC until you are ready to make the move. Your Railpower will do just fine to start, and you can add a walkaround for 2 train operation - just like you were thinking. Since I operate solo 98% of the time, and already have sufficient DC equipment, I feel no need to spend $$ on changing to DCC at present. My trains have other priorities for my limited hobby budget.
hope this helps and makes sense
Fred W
Actually a room sized DCC layout can be as simple as two wires. I constructed a 25' x 50' shelf layout around the walls of my basement (previous HO scale layout). I had a two wire 12ga buss runing under the layout with jumper wires from the buss about every 6 to 10 feet. I used a Digitrax Chief. I had my yard isolated electrically with a Digitrax DB150 booster for the yard. I started the layout with two MRC20 and used three 12 ga (common wire) buss. I used DPDT toggle switches for block control. When I converted to DCC I pulled one of the buss wires and removed the toggle switches.
If you are happy with DC, good for you. I was very pleased with the operation of my MRC DC power packs, but I found that DCC offered a lot more.
Thre are a lot of plug and play DCC decoders and DC locomotives with a built in DCC plug so converting to DCC is simple. I have heard the argument of the cost to convert 50 locos to DCC. I have a lot of locos and only about a dozen have DCC decoders. When I had my DC layout I didn't run that many locomotives anyway.
I see a lot of posts on DCC forums with modelers spending a lot of time trying to program with a DT400. I never got into that because DecoderPro is so easy to use.
I have only recently got into sound....and WOW!!! My first sound locomotive was a gift from my wife. I have since installed some sound decoders on my own and they work great.
Again, if DC mets your needs great, but take a look at what DCC has to offer. Try it, you may like it.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
rrinker I'm still waiting to see just how it is that DC zone control wiring is any simpler than DCC
I never said it was simpler, I simply said DCC is not just two wires, at least not on anything room sized.
Sheldon
DCC wiring is only hard if you MAKE it hard. People overcomplicate things incredibly, a newbie sees this and figures this MUST be the right way to do it, and runs into problems. It all depends on how many trains you plen to run and had little to do with the size of the layout. If you are not going to run more than the 10-15 HO loco capacity of most DCC systems (ones above the basic 'starter set" all you NEED is a paid of fairly heavy wires running under the layout with lots of track feeders hooked to it. Period. Complicated? Hardly.
I'm still waiting to see just how it is that DC zone control wiring is any simpler than DCC - I have the original articles where MZL control was first presented. From an operation standpoitn, once it's all installed - it's super easy to drive your train anywhere on the layout. However, if someone gets scared when they see '6 wire phone cords', showing them the diagrams of something like this is going to send them straight to the nut hatch. If you want to count the complex design inside the DCC controller, then yes, it is simpler, but that's hardly a vlaid comparison point. Yes, it's basic electricity, not electronics, just repeated over and over again depending on the number of zones you break the layout up into. But it is NOT simple - to install.
I DO get it - you liek what you have, it does what you want it to do, you have no reason to switch. Fine. But any DC system that allows more than 2 trains on anything but a trivial layout is NOT 'simpler' than DCC. You can, believe it or not, get everything DCC off the shelf, if if you don;t want sound. I fully realize that at even $12 each for NCE D13SRJ decoders, converting 199+ locos is over $1200, which can buy a lot of other railroad items. In fact I don;t think converting a truly large basement layotu is practical for most people. But satrting out? No one says you need to get 10 throttles, 5 boosters, and several dozen decoders before you even get the benchwork up - unless you buy a DCC system that's not expandable. It is more than practical to start small and add on as your layout grows. Had you (meaning Sheldon) bothered to check out my web page, you would have seen that that 8x12 double oval was just the first stage of a planned much larger layout. I even had most of the track plan at least roughed out. And that whole thing could have been powered with just my Zephyr, no extras needed - even with 3-4 people operating at once. Overkill seems to be the word of the day for DCC, why get 5 amps when you can get 10, never rmind that you don't plan on running more than 2 N scale locos at a time.
You know Sheldon, based on one of your posts on the main board the other day, I think there are MANY things we agree on - just obviously not model railroad control systems.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
ATLANTIC CENTRALPaul,....I don't recal if I ever mentioned to you, I live right along the Ma & Pa in the Village of Forest Hill, MD. In fact my house was built the same time the line was converted to standard gauge and the Ma & Pa was formed. Take care, Sheldon
Paul,
I don't recal if I ever mentioned to you, I live right along the Ma & Pa in the Village of Forest Hill, MD.
In fact my house was built the same time the line was converted to standard gauge and the Ma & Pa was formed.
Take care,
Sheldon,
I have been to Forest Hill a couple of times, looks like a nice place to live. The hobby shop in the Ma&Pa train station is one of the few that carry S. I stop in occaisionally after the Great Scale Train Show in Timonium.
Enjoy
Paul
I could care less about the layout wiring comparisons but I have watched children operating the Aristo Train Engineer system at the Big E show in West Springfield. They did quite well. Sheldon is involved with the young people. You can not argue with success.
Remember the OP, he is not electronics capable from what he said. To each his own. We are supposed to be having fun.
I use DCC and I also know there are many, many issues with DCC that users have to overcome. I belong to seven DCC forums and see a lot of issues because of the complexity of manufacturer/control/decoder software issues, including wiring the layout.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
MILW-RODR that first or second link given was of a throttle that could be bought pre-made for 40 bucks or make it yourself. what kind of connector would those use? i see a lot of dc walk around throttles using the 5mm plug in stereo jack style connectors.
that first or second link given was of a throttle that could be bought pre-made for 40 bucks or make it yourself. what kind of connector would those use? i see a lot of dc walk around throttles using the 5mm plug in stereo jack style connectors.
Possible connectors depend on the number of conductors (poles) needed in the tether. When I was making my DC handheld, I could not find/redesign a circuit to use only 3 conductors and still have reversing control in the walkaround. 4 conductors is fairly easy to achieve - especially if you allow full track power in the tether wires. But 4 conductors do NOT work with a single stereo jack (has 3 conductors). I used a 4 pole square connector I found at Radio Shark in conjunction with a coiled telephone handset cord as the tether. Since the handset cord has very light wire, I modified the circuit, splitting some components to the layout side, and some to the handheld box. A 12V DPDT latching relay was added to work off an SPST toggle for a direction switch, thus enabling just 4 wires in the tether.
Check the specs on the chosen throttle to see how many wires are needed in the tether. If you check the link I gave in my earlier post in the thread, you will see the plug and tether I used in the photo.
If I were doing it again today, I would use a metal DIN plug and socket. These are available with up to 6 conductors, and stand up pretty well to handling and repeated use. I do prefer a coiled tether, and these are readily available in light gauge 4 conductor.
If you use a pot - rotary control with knob - for speed control, and a direction switch, you are pretty much forced to have a minimum of 4 conductors in the tether. To get down to 3 conductors requires push button speed control or a pot that uses half of the range for reverse.
The MRC handhelds do not come with a tether - you make your own, which hooks to screw terminals on the handheld. I do not like that arrangement - I terminated the coiled handset cord inside the box with a strain relief clamp inside.
Last point on DC handheld throttles. Unless it is deliberately set up with throttle memory, disconnecting and replugging shuts down and restarts the power. On a small layout, a no memory throttle is not a problem. I do not want the train to run by itself without a controller plugged in because there often isn't enough free and clear track to run on while I plug/unplug. Besides, with a 10ft coiled tether and a centered plug location, I could reach anywhere I wanted to go on that side of the layout without unplugging.
my thoughts, your choices
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And all you had to do was say that was more than you needed or wanted as opposed to being rude and flip. Sheldon
And all you had to do was say that was more than you needed or wanted as opposed to being rude and flip.
MILW-RODR ATLANTIC CENTRAL The problem with these discussions is that everyone using DCC assumes that everyone else wants to operate the way they do. And you all say "once you try it you'll love it". I operate DCC two to three times a month, I still don't like it after YEARS. The OP has a history of changing his mind, I was hesitent to answer at all, that would have been a better choice. Sheldon and yet you still did. thats ok since i'm being judged i realized no one is going to help me so i figured i would just do whatever and not care if it was a comic book world running 10 trains with dc cab control on top of sky scrapers with a mix of steamers and modern diesels. i wasn't comparing apples to oragnes. i was talking apples and someone else said "well what about this orange". i don't need a wireless dc walk around throttle, or a wireless dcc throttle for that matter. i was talking about dc walk around throttles that were already made. even if i could use a wireless dc throttle i wouldn't, sounds like the wiring would be a nightmare. i would like to make something fun and easy like MR's carolina central or a simplified version of the blue coal & stafford city layouts before i dive into one of my own so to speak. i'm still going to do all the research for a future layout though. with the central i wouldn't even need a walk around throttle come to think of it, but as a lot of things it would be nice to have. that first or second link given was of a throttle that could be bought pre-made for 40 bucks or make it yourself. what kind of connector would those use? i see a lot of dc walk around throttles using the 5mm plug in stereo jack style connectors.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The problem with these discussions is that everyone using DCC assumes that everyone else wants to operate the way they do. And you all say "once you try it you'll love it". I operate DCC two to three times a month, I still don't like it after YEARS. The OP has a history of changing his mind, I was hesitent to answer at all, that would have been a better choice. Sheldon
The problem with these discussions is that everyone using DCC assumes that everyone else wants to operate the way they do. And you all say "once you try it you'll love it". I operate DCC two to three times a month, I still don't like it after YEARS.
The OP has a history of changing his mind, I was hesitent to answer at all, that would have been a better choice.
i would like to make something fun and easy like MR's carolina central or a simplified version of the blue coal & stafford city layouts before i dive into one of my own so to speak. i'm still going to do all the research for a future layout though. with the central i wouldn't even need a walk around throttle come to think of it, but as a lot of things it would be nice to have.
You are most welcome. If I was in a larger scale, like S or On30 or larger, I would be interested in onboard sound. I feel with the larger scales not only is the sound dramaticly better, because of the larger scale, you are in a more intimate relationship with the model, making effects like sound much more realistic and fun.
Making the choice you did, when you did, I would have chose DCC for your situation as well.
Today I would consider the new product from Aristo Craft, the Train Engineer Revolution. It has 50 channels and uses onboard receivers that will control sound boards. It uses track power or battery power in large scale and has basicly all the features of DCC but the control signal reaches the loco through the air by radio, not through the track.
These are brand new, just released. I have one of the orginal test batch but have not done much with it do to other projects and work, but all the reports are VERY GOOD. I think I will install it in my On30 that I run for the Christmas Tree.
My understanding is they are working on HO sized receivers for it as well. Not that I would do that myself, but there is a future other than DCC.
Using the track for power only and not for the signal has the prospect of reducing track cleaning issues and as batteries get better who knows.
Thanks for the explanation.
I agree that one or the other is not automatically right for everyone. I had looked at the Aristocraft system several years ago and concluded at that time that it was not what I needed, but I see they have improved it since then. DCC with the cab bus and/or central control station didn't work for me either. When wireless DCC came along I went with it.
In my case I like wireless DCC because
No control panels or central control station needed. (And I don't want any)
No wiring except for power bus with track feeders. (I don't have a cab bus and my turnouts are hand thrown.)
I like sound and in S you can have larger speakers.
I only have 12 locomotives currently and don't plan to exceed 20.
No signalling required as the Ma&Pa was dark.
Our situations are very different, but fortunately there is a solution for each of us.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Kevin, Do you have the 10 amp Train Engineer or the Basic DC Train Engineer? The 10 amp model is much better for the slightly higher cost.
Kevin,
Do you have the 10 amp Train Engineer or the Basic DC Train Engineer? The 10 amp model is much better for the slightly higher cost.
I had the basic. For power, I was using one of my four MRC Tech II Locomotion 2500's. Everyplace I've seen has the regular Train Engineer priced too high for my wallet to get two of them (let alone one right now).
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
jamnest I don't think the cost differential between DC and DCC is the size of the layout, but the number of trains that you want to run independently. Above two independent trains DC starts to get expensive and complicated with wire and switches for block control. I started out with two MRC20 walk around throttles and power packs. They worked great. I used DPDT toggle switches for block control and had my yard isolated on a third power pack. When I wanted to add additional trains, things became very complicated. I switched to DCC. I started with a Digitrax radio Chief as the Zepher was not available at the time. Then sound locomotives came out. Yes you can run some sound locomotives with DC, but DCC is much easier to use and program sound. I do not program using my DT400, but have a PR3 (also still have a MS100 which works too) With DecoderPro (free software) programing is easy and my PR3 not only programs locomotives but allows me to use my PC as extra throttles with DecoderPro.
I don't think the cost differential between DC and DCC is the size of the layout, but the number of trains that you want to run independently. Above two independent trains DC starts to get expensive and complicated with wire and switches for block control.
I started out with two MRC20 walk around throttles and power packs. They worked great. I used DPDT toggle switches for block control and had my yard isolated on a third power pack. When I wanted to add additional trains, things became very complicated. I switched to DCC. I started with a Digitrax radio Chief as the Zepher was not available at the time.
Then sound locomotives came out. Yes you can run some sound locomotives with DC, but DCC is much easier to use and program sound.
I do not program using my DT400, but have a PR3 (also still have a MS100 which works too) With DecoderPro (free software) programing is easy and my PR3 not only programs locomotives but allows me to use my PC as extra throttles with DecoderPro.
Jim, I will say again, if you like sound you need DCC.
I will also say again, cab control wiring can be complex to install, but need not be complex to operate with a bunch of "block switches".
All those things you discribe about DCC I know about but are of no interest to me.
jamnestI don't think the cost differential between DC and DCC is the size of the layout, but the number of trains that you want to run independently. Above two independent trains DC starts to get expensive and complicated with wire and switches for block control.
But the size of a layout does directly effect how many trains you can run. As I said to Randy, you are welcome to have two, or more, small trains chasing each other around some small layout, or bumping into each other in a small yard. I have no interest in that.
rrinker Well if you want to compare apples to apples you'll also have to get yourself a second throttle, as the Digitrax radio starter sets allow simultaneous independent control of two trains - the DT throttles have 2 knobs to run 2 trains under control - not counting how many you could start up and then let roam free. Some people don;t like to do that for fear of derailments or crashes. But 2 can be actually under control, one on each knob, with live independent speed and direction - no pressing buttons to flip back and forth or anything. What's it REALLY cost for all the Aristo gear you'd need to install on, say an 8x12 double oval which would allow 2 trains to be run, and cross between ovals at will? I'll still spot you the extra cost of the radio, although an 8x12 donut like my last layout, you could stand in the middle and reach everywhere with a tethered throttle. --Randy
Well if you want to compare apples to apples you'll also have to get yourself a second throttle, as the Digitrax radio starter sets allow simultaneous independent control of two trains - the DT throttles have 2 knobs to run 2 trains under control - not counting how many you could start up and then let roam free. Some people don;t like to do that for fear of derailments or crashes. But 2 can be actually under control, one on each knob, with live independent speed and direction - no pressing buttons to flip back and forth or anything. What's it REALLY cost for all the Aristo gear you'd need to install on, say an 8x12 double oval which would allow 2 trains to be run, and cross between ovals at will? I'll still spot you the extra cost of the radio, although an 8x12 donut like my last layout, you could stand in the middle and reach everywhere with a tethered throttle.
Randy, I will full well admit that if your goal is to operate two trains on something as small as an 8x12 layout you need DCC for easy and simple operation. I have often said DCC is the answer for small layouts. But to compare fixed station DCC starter systems with the TE is not fair, and UT4R's may only be $100, but they have to talk to something, base system, decoders, etc, etc.
I have no interest in a layout that small having two short little trains chasing each other around two ovals. The average train my layout is designed for is 18-20 feet long, it would reach half way around such an oval.
My layout goals are different, my control system is different.
If my layout space was that small I would build a switching layout, run one train and only need one Train Engineer and wire the whole layout as one block with power routing turnouts to kill sections for parked locos. Simple wiring and one TE and power supply - cost $200. As you point out, why would anyone need wireless on a layout that small? - they wouldn't.
In fact, a while back I visted a really nice layout, that fills a whole 1500 sq ft basement. The layout is point to point and it is wired similar to what I just discribed. The guy runs one train at a time, from one stagging yard to the other. It is a giant industrial layout - he uses one Aristo TE, he has no "block" toggles, only few kill switches for special sections.
My layout is large, one of my goals is prototype or nearly prototype length trains, lots of staging, industrial and yard areas mostly seperate from the mainline running, so the safe spacing of trains is no problem and neither is the DC control that provides that.
I understand why you do/use what you do. I'm sure its great for your purposes. You fail to expand your view to understand it might not suit everyones purposes.
I looked long and hard at DCC and operate on a half dozen large DCC controlled layouts on a regular basis. I know lots about it, having even helped design and build one of these layouts. Dispite the views of some members of this board, trying it does not mean wanting it.
The short answer is yes. Many large scale operators use it that way. They often have a receiver on each loop of track, with out any block toggles, and one transmitter allows them to quickly (one touch) switch from train to train. Remember most large scale operators are running more of a display mode than an operational mode.
In HO or N most Aristo TE users, like myself, use each throttle/receiver set as a deticated throttle, replacing a power pack or memory throttle system.
It is not practical with the TE to have a train move from receiver to receiver. many large scale modelers do this with "transfer sections".
The part that is hard to explain is that I (and many others) do not use block toggles or rotary switches to assign the throttles to the blocks (we actually prefer the term "track section" as per Paul Mallory). There are lots of cab control systems that do not use toggles or rotarys.
First I use a walk around friendly push button circuit to assign throttles. A set of lighted pushbuttons for each section can be duplicated at the beginning and end of the section allowing complete walk around operation without doubling back or being anchored to a control panel. This allows sections to be assigned from either direction as you walk with yor train. AND another set can be located on a master panel to allow "dispatcher" type operation.
Second, the number of sections (blocks) is reduced by half using X-sections, sections that are connected to ajoining sections depending on turnout position. Additonally, the wiring used to do this also provides the basis for complete detection and signaling, and also provides free built in colision avoidance.
Randy is welcome to run two trains on the same route with his DT400, I prefer not to. When two operators are on the same route and each have a ajacent sections assigned to their respective throttles on my layout, there is a built in buffer of dead track. This is done for FREE with no additional wiring. By using seperate power supplies for each throttle, gapping and switching both rails (the TE does like common rail anyway) and staggering gaps between sections, the area of the staggered gaps is effectively dead to each respective throttle as only one rail has a path to its power supply. Only when both sections are assigned to the same throttle can the train proceed through the buffer section.
My system is unique to my needs and wants, but I am not alone in those needs/wants.
I want/have:
detection, train location monitoring
signaling with comlete and correct intoerlocking signals
colision avoidance
easy display operation
the choice of wireless walk around or central dispatcher control
no need to install decoders in the 100 locos I allready have and need for my operational scheme
excelent slow speed with the pluse with modulation of the TE with little or no loco modifications
the TE pluse width puts 12 volts on the track as soon as the throttle is touched, before the loco moves, providing excelent constant lighting without user input
the TE provides ten discrete channels that can operate simultaneously, I have eight on my layout
the TE is simple for all operators having only 5 large buttons for train control functions
my control panels have few buttons and a simple and easy to use and are located as you walk around with your train.
I don't need or want:
onboard sound - in HO the sound quality is not to my taste and I find multiple sound locos in operation very annoying, even with the volume down and the layout large (my current layout fills an 800 sq ft room, I will be moving soon and may have even more space)
helpers/pushers - not something I want to model - period
speed matching - I find it completely unnecessary, I model the 50's, my diesels are matched sets and I find many of todays steam models will double head with each other just fine - example proto 2-8-8-2 and spectrum 2-6-6-2 run great together on the TE throttles
ditch lights, headlight control, ringing bells, blowing whistles/horns - need to pay attention to the train
To meet ALL my goals, my system costs less than any DCC/computer signaling/dispatching combination out there. In fact, my system only cost a little more than putting quality non sound decoders in my 100 locos would have cost.
The TE has proven ruggid and reliable with no range issues even with modified shorter indoor antennas and the pushbutton control is more like a real loco than a knob.
I will full well admit its not for everyone, it is layout goal specific. But in my view DCC is not "automaticly" the best for every layout either.
Without going into which is better,
If I understand the Aristocraft system, for multiple train operation, you need to have blocks and one receiver/power pack combo per train to be controlled. With one throttle transmitter you can control multiple receivers up to 10 or you can have multiple throttle units for multiple operators. But you still need block/cab wiring and still need to switch track blocks between the receiver/power pack combos as the trains advance from block to block.
The primary advantage is being able to run DC locomotives without modification. Secondarily, it's easy to add/mix with existing DC cab/wiring layouts
The primary disadvantage is having to have block/cab wiring and toggle the blocks between receiver/power pack combos for each train.
Is this correct?
If your starting out from scratch aka a brand new layout then it's a no brainer DCC is the ONLY way to go. You can get a very good system Digitrax, NCE, MRC for under $200 way under if you shop around. Just the savings in time and money you'll save in not having to wire blocks is worth the money. You'll have your sound also, don't be disappointed when you hear N scale sound. A lot of guys expect it to sound as loud and clear as HO well when you can do that with speakers half the size be sure to let me know.
Comparing DC to DCC is like comparing a Ferrari to a Yugo, there are pleanty of ways to save money by adding extension plates yourself to conserve funds a bit but how big of an N scale layout are we talking about? If your building a basement empire then sure a walk around throttle is a necessity but if your building a 4x8 which is a very respectable size for n scale then one throttle with one fascia plate should do the trick. The money will be very well spent I can assure you, I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone who has made the change over who will tell you differently.
MILW-RODRthanks for the laugh. that things more expensive than ANY DCC option I had. when i wrote this i forgot that i could use my power pack as a second stationary throttle, which would eliminate the need for a dc walk around throttle, by using my power pack in jump port of a digitrax zephyr so now the choice will come down to a cost annalysis.
What's more expensive than DCC? The Aristo Train Engineer? You need to compare apples to apples.
Sure, there are stationary DCC systems for that price or maybe even less, BUT.
There are no WIRELESS RADIO DCC systems for $225.00, not to mention the cost of decoders.
The Aristo 10 amp TE is $200 retail, they can be bought all over the place for $150-$170.
The power supply I recommended is only $22 from a dozen different online electronics suppliers.
How much is a Digitrax radio starter set?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL chatanuga This is the throttle that I'm planning on getting a couple of once I have the money saved up for it. Two wires hook up to the AC output on the transformer and the other two wires go to the track. I've got all the wiring changes planned out so that once that's done, I'll be able to just plug them in. Kevin, That is a good throttle, but you can have wireless pulse width control by simply purchasing the Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttle. Sheldon
chatanuga This is the throttle that I'm planning on getting a couple of once I have the money saved up for it. Two wires hook up to the AC output on the transformer and the other two wires go to the track. I've got all the wiring changes planned out so that once that's done, I'll be able to just plug them in.
Kevin, That is a good throttle, but you can have wireless pulse width control by simply purchasing the Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttle.
Not sure why you had problems, but I suspect it was your power supply. The Train Engineer (all of them) works best on a regulated, filtered power supply of at least 12 volts DC and at least 2-3 amps.
All of the problems you discribe can be caused by a poor quality power supply. Most regular power packs are not really a good choice for powering the Train Engineer. When the load drops the voltage below 12 volts, the electronics in the TE will not work correctly. Small HO packs often are only rated at 1 amp or less and are easily overloaded by the TE and a locomotive.
Aristo sells very nice power supplies that work well, or, you can use what I use. A filtered, regulated 13.8 volt DC, 4 amp power supply sold to power automotive CB radios in your home. The ones I use are made by Pyramid and only cost about $22.
I have eight Train Engineers and a friend of my has six on his HO layout, each with its own power supply of this type. We have no problems with range or overloading. I can run my trains from my driveway 70' from the layout.
As for the nine volt batteries, if you buy good, name brand, akiline batteries from someplace where you know they are fresh, you should get about 6 months of moderate to heavy use. ALL the large scale guys I know who use the TE also have this same experiance about the batteries, cheap batteries cause problems and don't last. Duracell's are the best.
As for the throttle response issue, you need to program your reciever for NO momentum and be sure you are set to pluse width mode (PWC). HO locomotives do not seem to benifit from that feature. I will say that as to the pushbutton control, you either like it or you don't. I was very hesitant about that until I used one for a while, now I really like it.
I did extensive testing of the Train Engineer before deciding to use them. I know a number of others who use them both in HO and large scale and are also very happy with them. I have been very happy with the results.
If you go onto the Bachmann forum or the Aristo forum and do a search of my name, you will find a whole series of threads where I detailed all my testing and developement of the the TE and the control system I use with it.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Kevin, That is a good throttle, but you can have wireless pulse width control by simply purchasing the Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttle. Sheldon
I tried one of those. It worked okay until it started causing an overload on the transformer I had it on. The thing I didn't like about it was the push button control of the throttle. I kept having to hold it down and let go as soon as the train started to move, which seemed to take forever. Also, I hated having to keep replacing the 9 volt battery in the remote so often. Even when the battery was just low, it would work and then I kept having to hold the remote high in the air and get closer and closer to the antenna for the Train Engineer throttle to get any response. So, I've given up on going for wireless, at least for now. With the throttle I mentioned above, I'm planning on putting in three access points (one for each staging yard and one in the middle of my main yard) for each throttle so that they can be used for yard work.
MILW-RODRif i go this way i will have to buy the premaid..i can't read wire schematics. it instantly confuses me with all the triangles and circles and half moon and pine tree symbols.
if i go this way i will have to buy the premaid..i can't read wire schematics. it instantly confuses me with all the triangles and circles and half moon and pine tree symbols.
That should work very well. I built a similar design in the late 1980s and I was very happy with the results. I now run DCC but I have been an electronic tech for many years and I understand the lingo. Good luck.
A possible caveat, the 60hz frequency of the pulses might cause motor buzz in some locos.It may not be an issue for most people.
I modified my design to operate at a higher frequency.
Some first generation DCC decoders do this. Newer generation decoders send the pulses to the motor at a higher frequency which pretty much eliminates the motor buzz issue. This throttle is still a good option for those who only want DC control.