jbinkley60 I hope the Athearn Tsunamis are full featured. It would be shame otherwise, especially after what they've put their customers through with the old sound decoders..
I hope the Athearn Tsunamis are full featured. It would be shame otherwise, especially after what they've put their customers through with the old sound decoders..
The new Athearn diesel Tsunami decoders are not full featured like a Tsunami you install yourself but are still a much better decoder than the MRC ever was. The big issue, people "Assume" the factory decoder sounds are the same. Wrong assumption.
This issue showed up sometime ago when Bachmann started selling factory installed Tsunami decoders in their steamers. Some people thought they were being cheated by some sounds not included. They “Assumed”.
Read the specs in the advertisements and Athearn PDF documents. Don't assume.
If I was to ever get another DCC/sound loco, be it steam or diesel, I would by the Athearn or Bachmann factory installed. It is more cost effective. If you know how to shop on the Internet, there are good deals available.
I have five Roundhouse steamers and two Spectrum steamers that I put the Micro-Tsunami into. Each decoder with speaker cost about $120.00 after the cost and shipping of the loco.
Right now, I can buy a HO Bachmann 2-8-0 with DCC/sound Tsunami for $148.00 online.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
First off I have to agree with the poster that said converting Steam to DC locomotives to DCC is by no means easier then Diesels, in fact I feel it's much more difficult. So much so I sold off most of my old DC steam roster for DCC ready or DCC equipped locomotive. That being said the whole installing DCC decoders in DC engines a a matter of reverse engineers/retrofitting at it's best and most decoder manufatures do a pretty good job at it. Do a little research on the net and for example put in install dcc sound decoder in what ever engine your interested in and you'll find a slew of information most have pics as well. You'll see what I mean by clicking on the links below. If you deal with a company like SoundTraxx for example they will tell you what size speaker you need speaker enclosure and decoder you need for a specific application you can't get easier then that. Sometimes you just need to do a little tweeking on your own to make things work it really isn't as difficult as you might think
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/HO_Search/search.html
I have just completed installation of a QSI sound decoder ( model 5050-481) in the new Athearn Gas Turbine Locomotive...no problems.......I asked the question about what decoder to install on the Digitrax Yahoo group page.....many LHS's and vendors monitor these groups and are willing to provide the answer to such questions. This loco was designed to accept two different style plugs plus two different speaker locations.........the manufacturers of locomotives and decoders are starting to talk to each other with regard to design issues for decoder installs. This Athearn Loco is a good case in point.
I assume you are thinking mostly of narrow body locos and not F units.
Yes, you will find what you asked for in the newer Kato diesel locos. But unless you are like me and lurk around several eBay sellers and snipe some decent barely used Katos for half price, you would be better off looking for regular retailers with good prices for factory installed sound. A brand new Proto 2000 with QSI sound for example is sometimes still less expensive than a used Kato with after market sound installed at home.
One can pick up a new Proto 2000 U-boat with Quantum sound for $109.00
I have a good number of both Katos and P2K and am fond of both makes.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
shagspastic Are there any companies that are making ho scale diesels that are designed to easily accept decoder boards and sound modules like say a speaker mount in the fuel tank or a specific place for the decoder board ? I must say it is a good feeling after you have mounted all these things inside of a loco with severe space constraints and have it all work right but it would be so much easier if they were already designed to receive these things. I've installed dcc and sound in three Athearn diesels. Getting it all to fit plus a decent size speaker was nearly impossible. Does anyone have any advice ? Thanks for the help.
Are there any companies that are making ho scale diesels that are designed to easily accept decoder boards and sound modules like say a speaker mount in the fuel tank or a specific place for the decoder board ? I must say it is a good feeling after you have mounted all these things inside of a loco with severe space constraints and have it all work right but it would be so much easier if they were already designed to receive these things. I've installed dcc and sound in three Athearn diesels. Getting it all to fit plus a decent size speaker was nearly impossible. Does anyone have any advice ? Thanks for the help.
The newer Kato units have space in the fuel tank for a 28mm speaker and an 8 pin plug for the decoder. It's almost as plug-n-play as you can get. I think they do this because they don't offer their locmotives with DCC and sound from the factory. Most other manufacturers offer sound and nonsound options. I've upgraded around a dozen nonsound units to DCC and sound. All take some work. Some much more than others. I do find that using decoders with built-in current limiting (i.e. Digitrax DH165 series etc..) cuts down on some of the work. Overall I was initially a bit shy about tearing into a locomotive to add sound but now I just go at it and take my time. For new units I do buy them with DCC and sound from the factory. It's the older ones I need to retrofit.
shagspastic I wish i was modeling the steam era cause putting it all in the tender would be so easy.... I've been debating on putting a draw bar between two engines and having one of them be a dummy engine with the dcc and sound inside of it. I just don't know if i want them to always be linked together. Decisions Decisions
I wish i was modeling the steam era cause putting it all in the tender would be so easy.... I've been debating on putting a draw bar between two engines and having one of them be a dummy engine with the dcc and sound inside of it. I just don't know if i want them to always be linked together. Decisions Decisions
I think you need to try a sound install before you state how easy it is. If you are modeling small steam or 19th Century steam, there is nothing easy about it. Factors to consider:
- is the motor going to be in the tender or the firebox/cab or the boiler? All 3 motor locations have positives and negatives, and affect speaker placement and how big the speaker can be.
- if the speaker is in the tender instead of the engine, will it appear the sounds are coming from where they should - the cylinders of the engine and stack?
- the best way to synchronize the sound correctly is through a cam on a driver axle - more wiring to contend with. The only semi-realistic alternative is computation using the known gear ratio and motor BEMF.
- Similar to diesel throttle issues, linking steam cutoff to cobination of load and speed instead of just speed is not trivial
- (this one applies to your situation with using a dummy) keeping the wire bundle between engine and tender flexible enough to not derail, especially when backing, is not trivial, either. The sound decoders have extra wires (speaker, cam, and lights spread over 2 units), plus pickup is needed from both tender and engine. Often, if the motor is in the engine, the decoder goes in the tender - this means at least a 6 wire bundle between engine and tender for the headlight, motor, and track pickup. The cam adds another wire - and this assumes the speaker is in the tender with the decoder.
- (also applies to dual diesel units) if you want to be able to separate the units for maintenance or other reasons, the wire bundle has to have a cable disconnect plug and jack. This is more opportunity for things to go wrong, or to stiffen the connection between tender and engine, causing derailments.
- I don't model diesels - although I would probably relent for a Bachmann 45 tonner except for my personal economic downturn - so I don't know all the challenges of fitting sound in a single unit diesel. I do see the trade-off between speaker and engine weight for tractive effort - a big issue in my eyes with the steep grades I have.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Welcome aboard!
Just for reference, there is also a forum called "Electronics and DCC" here. While General Discussion pretty much covers everything, you'll find that the DCC geeks (yeah, I'm a geek, too, and proud of it) spend time over there.
Many manufacturers are now making the same models both with and without decoders and speakers. To save on manufacturing costs, the engine frames are identical. So, if you find a model that is available both with and without decoders, chances are it will be a piece of cake to add your own speakers and such. I recently bought a SoundBug, intending to put it in a dummy F7B, but when I opened up the A unit I found a lovely 1-inch round mounting hole for a speaker. Now, I've got sound in both the A and B units.
If you look at prices, though, you'll see that the cost of buying an engine with sound already installed is generally less than buying the DC engine, a decoder and a speaker, and then you have to do all the work, with the attendent risk of making a mistake and frying your decoder. So, I generally recommend getting the engine with sound installed, if that's what you want.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I wish i was modeling the steam era cause putting it all in the tender would be so easy. I've been debating on putting a draw bar between two engines and having one of them be a dummy engine with the dcc and sound inside of it. I just don't know if i want them to always be linked together. Decisions Decisions
The only advise I can give is to buy the loco with DCC and sound already installed. Other than that you just have to keep cramming stuff into spaces where there is not supposed to be anything there. Keep your wiring neat and tidy. Swap bulbs for LEDs while your at it. Even better is to revert to steam and put all the stuff in the tender.
Keep going and just do your best.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!