I'm toying with a scratch built HO vertical boiler Climax loco idea (DCC w/ sound) and need a small can motor that will fit inside the boiler (probably a cardboard tube covered in embossed foil). My motor expertise is more inline with flathead V-8s than small electric motors and I'm over my head when I look at various catalog pages and their encrypted (to me) descriptions. This will be for a small switcher mostly shuffling empty log cars at the mill site so I don't need a lot of horsepower. I've seen several N scale motors and a few slightly larger HO motors but other than length and diameter I don't know what to look for. The motor will be geared down but what is the normal RPM range for small steamers' electric motors? Other parameters are beyond this old man's knowledge- I hope someone out there can fill me in on what to look for too old to learn everything, Roy
Roy Onward into the fog http://s1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/looseclu/
LooseClu I'm toying with a scratch built HO vertical boiler Climax loco idea (DCC w/ sound) and need a small can motor that will fit inside the boiler (probably a cardboard tube covered in embossed foil)...This will be for a small switcher mostly shuffling empty log cars at the mill site so I don't need a lot of horsepower. I've seen several N scale motors and a few slightly larger HO motors but other than length and diameter I don't know what to look for. The motor will be geared down but what is the normal RPM range for small steamers' electric motors? Other parameters are beyond this old man's knowledge- I hope someone out there can fill me in on what to look for
I'm toying with a scratch built HO vertical boiler Climax loco idea (DCC w/ sound) and need a small can motor that will fit inside the boiler (probably a cardboard tube covered in embossed foil)...This will be for a small switcher mostly shuffling empty log cars at the mill site so I don't need a lot of horsepower. I've seen several N scale motors and a few slightly larger HO motors but other than length and diameter I don't know what to look for. The motor will be geared down but what is the normal RPM range for small steamers' electric motors? Other parameters are beyond this old man's knowledge- I hope someone out there can fill me in on what to look for
Roy
Almost all of the motors that will fit in our HO and smaller models have sufficient power/torque to spin the drive wheels when geared appropriately and the load exceeds tractive effort. So power and torque are usually not an issue unless you are using a really tiny motor without much gear reduction.
A Climax had a maximum speed of around 10-15 MPH in 2nd gear - early Climaxes had a 2 gear transmission. Gearing that slow in HO will require multiple gear and/or belt reductions. Available motors usually have a 12 volt RPM of 8K to 15K; smaller motors have the higher RPMs.
My rule of thumb is to fit the biggest, slowest motor that will fit in the designated space and call it good. Slower motors require fewer gears turning at high RPMs - high RPM gear noise is the dominant noise in small model locomotives that are properly tuned.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Some additional comments:
The NWSL catalog (downloadable .pdf) has quite a bit of good info on motors and gearing. It's not terribly well organized, but there is a lot of info there, including speed vs RPM vs driver diameter vs gear reduction tables. I'm not sure what motors NWSL still has or can obtain.
Motorman's and LocoDoc's web sites also have re-motoring information, and both sell motors. LocoDoc has some very small coreless 24V motors that run very nicely at 12V and less at reasonable RPMs, but they are expensive. I just bought a LocoDoc kit for remotoring my HOn3 FED 2-6-0.
Thank you Mr Fred- I'd never heard of the LocoDoc but those web pages are helpful. I'm a NWSL fan and you are quite correct about their somewhat convaluted web pages. Dave (NWSL hauncho) had my Bachmann HO Climax as his guinea pig for several weeks and I'm patiently waiting for Dave's Climax gears so that expensive little loco will run again. It was that loco, and its third failure with less than 10 hour's total usage, that provoked me into trying to build a class A vertical boiler climax. Thanks again,
Please send pictures as your project progresses. My class A Climax "someday" project has grown out of my frustration with the size, appearance, and noise of my Roundhouse Climax. It just looks so out of place with my Keystone and even a back-dated Roundhouse Shay.
I had originally planned to simply cut down the frame and superstructure, and re-do the flywheel to line up with the motor with real bearings. I then realized the stock motor and gears are suspect, and the wheel base of the trucks is way out of line with Climax photos I have seen.
Searching through the NWSL catalog, I realized NWSL sells (sold?) a bare Keystone Shay drive minus the Keystone sideframes and minus the motor (?). This would bring the truck wheel base down to something more reasonable - around 4ft - and the overall length with my other lokies. The drawings of a class B in a 1960s MR show the truck wheel base to be 3ft 3", and I am assuming the typical class A would be no bigger. The remaining question is whether to do vertical or horizontal boiler, and when am I going to scratch the new frame and truck side frames.
yours in geared steam
PS - A sincere thanks for contributing to the new NWSL's development and their new products.