Thanks all.
Jim
I'm in the same boat Jim. I am finishing a 14'x32' room for my layout. I have nothing as far as DCC equipment yet accept all my engines do have decoders installed. I have figured that purchasing an end-need system will save a fair amount of money in the long run, so I an planning to purchase a Digitrax Superchief 8 amp radio system. I chose Digitrax due to familiarity with the DT400 controller my friends use. NCE would also be a great choice also.
RF&PRR
Buy the end need system now. You'll learn the system as you build your layout and install decoders. By the time your layout is up and running you'll have a fleet of locos with decoders installed and be familiar with the ins and outs of your system.
I would recommend the NCE PowerHouse Pro system. Oone primary reason is that ease with which you can upgrade the PHP system. If between now and when your layout is build there are sugnificant changes to either NCE system or to DCC standards, the historical upgrade path for NCE has been to issue a new EPROM chip. For a minimal cost (IIRC the last one was $20) they send you a new EPROM, you open the black box, remove the old and install the new. No need to send the unit back to the factory. In contrast, Digitrax's upgrade path has either been to issue a new system, with no upgrade path for the old system you have, or to come out with some other new piece of hardware, like a new throttle, for you to access new features. No option to send in the old for an upgrade to the new standards.
Something to consider. You don't want the DCC system you buy today to be outdated when you finally get around to building your layout in a few years. Either will handle the criteria you listed.
Don't buy anything now -- wait until you have an operational layout and decoder equipped locomotives if you anticipate it being 5 years from now, because DCC technology is changing so rapidly that what you purchase today might be obsolete in 5 years, especially one of the "beginner" systems.
What's even more scary is that if you purchase a cheap beginner system now the company that makes it might not be around in 5 years.
If you do decide to get your system now, go all the way and with a major supplier such as Digitrax, Lenz, North Coast Engineering or EasyDCC.
This is where I step in and say Digitrax Zephyr. Perfect for that basic loop to get you going, and it runs a DC loco on address 00 (not very well but it works - especially if you have no coreless can motors, which will melt rather rapidly if palced on DCC track with no decoder). As you add more benchwork and track for more operational possibilities you can add an extra throttle, and as the layotu continues to grow, an extra booster for more power. And finally when you're ready for radio, you cn add that AND get your original tethered throttles upgraded to radio - for no price penalty (Digitrax upgrades throttles to radio for the same cost as the price difference between the tethered and radio versions). Finally, if you want to add detection and signalling, you alrady have the data bus installed - the same Loconet that connects the throttles also connects the block detection system and signal controls, both from Digitrax and numerous third parties. That last - NO ONE else has. And through it all, that original Zephyr you purchased can be located in a spot where the operator doesn't have to move, liek the engine terminal, and continue to be a fully functional part of your system. No wasted components with Digitrax if you choose to start small and add as you go on.
As for buying the top of the line system right out, if I did that I'd have no money for wood, track, and roadbed to actually build my layout. I started with the Zephyr, and until my layout reaches the point where the Zephyr is too small, I will continue to use it as my only system. Eventually I will add the other bits as I need them to expand the power and number of operators.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I recommend getting the full blown system with radio now. That's what I did and I have just about finished wiring 2/3rds of the current layout. The advantage is that I have been adding and testing as I go with the final system. So I don't wind up with a problem later when I get the final system. Also, I haven't spent money or time doing a cab bus that I don't need.
Enjoy
Paul
Rinker (Randy) had some good points. I ran a cheap E-Z Command for around 3 years and did enjoy it, but it lacked things I wanted. It was a little hard to run 2 engines on the same line and I wanted walk around capability.
Couple of thing we have in common Jim is we don't know much and have big benches. Mine is 19 X 13 and is getting bigger. On of the problems that drove me a little nuts was when I did have a bad section I could not be close to see what was happing.
I bought a Zepher with a UP 5 faces plate and a utility throttle, cost was right around $255.00 this way I could have walk around capability. Before I installed mine Simon 1966 brought over his so I could give it a try. It's 2.5 amp power supply ran 6 engines with no problem. What I did not like was the way it controlled 2 engines on the same main. Lets say engine 1 is at 40% throttle and you want to start engine 2, you change address from 1 to neutral, select engine 2, turn throttle to 0 and select 2 and off you go. Now, you want to regain control of engine 1, you exit engine 2, set the throttle to apx speed you had engine 1 and select and you are in control again. I must add it is easer than it sounds. But, it was no better than the E-Z command that I was giving up.
I went with a Digitrax Super Empire Builder because of its DT 400 throttle. You can control two engines at the same time because it has knobs for this. Let say engine 1 is at 40%, I select engine 2 and crank it up to 60% then I go back to engine 1 and it is still at 40%. You must read about what all it can do at there site, but it is amazing.
Now, the Zepher cost me $255.00 apx with the extra stuff. My SEB for short has 5 amps, DH 400 throttle, UP 5 faces plate and with it $40.00 power supply came to $300.00.
My goal is to run 8 to 10 sound engines at the same time and have it all controlled by computer. I am 95% sure the 5 amps will do that.
I have found a few short comings to the SEB but pretty happy with it. Latter I can up grade to Radio like Randy stated. Lack of programing track is a pain, the Super Chief is set up for a programing track.
If you have the money to buy what you want, do it. If not buy what you can get by with.
Hope I was of some help.
Cuda Ken
PS, use DC to get the trains running and have fun!
I hate Rust
been reading thease (whats best) for a year now..... first I liked the easy dcc.then I decided on the chief.....then it hit me 'I dont even have any track down ' got some bench work a lot of ideas no real plan sooo ..I went for a deal on a zepher and after playing all day on some temp track its all I ll need for a long time .....dcc is the e ticket ,just fooled a round with a f7 p2k w/sound set and am sold ....got me ready to move forward ....nothing like dcc ...zepher is fine for now .........J.w.
Jim,
CudaKen's post is exactly what you to AVOID. Read his post carefully, sort of read between the lines.
First, he started with a Bachmann EZ-DCC system. This is as about a basic, beginner level DCC system as you can get. Did it work? Sure, has it lasated to meet his needs? No. Did he have numerous problems with it? Yes, just go back through his history of posts and look at the various problems he had with and the number of decoders he's burned up. DCC system No. 1 down.
Next (based on recommendations from forum members) he bought a Digitrax Zephyr (not Zepher) system. This is the Digitrax starter system. Again, did it work? Not exactly. It didn't fit his operating 'style.' DCC system No. 2 down.
Becuase CudaKen was already hooked into Digitrax he now (again based on forum recommendations) goes out and buys a Digitrax Super Empire Builder (SEB). The SEB is the next step up the Digitrax product line. He gets the fancy DT (not DH) 400 throttle and should be good to go. Except, CudaKen likes to mess around with CV settings and trying to program, re-program and fix decoders. One problem, the SEB doesn't have CV read back capability. So, time to buy another piece of hardware that will allow him to read CVs and program sound decoders. More $$$ out of pocket.
Now it appears that CudaKen is saying that, if given the chance to do it again, he'd pick the Digitrax Super Chief system because it has CV read back capability.
SO, lets review. You could take the recommendation of some and buy a started system and be like CudaKen. You could be on your THIRD DCC system in the last 3-4 years, OR you could go out and buy a full, top line, top featured system now, have everything wired and installed from the beginning to meet it and be learning how to operate it and its features as your layout is constructed. As, look at the costs involved in CudaKen's response. The outlay for an EZ-DCC ($50, maybe), then a Zephyr ($255), then a SEB ($300), power supply ($40), CV reader ($???). So you're easily over $700. Sure the zephyr isn;t a complete loss since it can be used as a stationary throttle and a booster, but you'd probably be prefer and walk around throttle and could get by with a circuit breaker and not a full out booster.
Now, from my experience, as stated in my initial response you need to consider upgrade paths not only with the manufacturer's product line (i.e. Digitrax's Zephyr to SEB to Super Chief or NCE's PowerCab to PowerHouse Pro) but also the manufacturer's way of upgrading as DCC features change. Do you want to send you unit back to the manufacturer for upgrades or have the manufacturer send you the new chip and have you do it yourself in your home?
But to repeat, I recommend going with the top line system at the begining and learning and building your layout around it.
Hi!
I'm in the process of rebuilding an 11x15 two level HO layout and converting to DCC at the same time. A year ago I would have said "no way" to the conversion. Now I am crazy about it - mainly to be able to run trains as opposed to figuring out which toggle controlls which block, etc., etc.
I went with a Digitrax Super Chief, with a second booster and two Digital Specialties PSx4 circuit breakers - which gives me 8 power districts with one 5 amp booster for 4. I chose Digitrax because of quality, availability, and the fact that they are used by so many. I almost chose NCE, and if I had, that would have been fine too! Money wise, I've spent $1k so far, and will spend another $1k on decoders over the next few years.
Soooo, before you buy, I suggest you ask yourself a couple of questions.......
First, is model railroading a passion of yours, or a casual hobby? In other words, are you in it for the long run or is it just something to do for now? If its truly a passion, I would get a bigger system to start with - one that you can expand upon.
Second, is money a factor? If so, go with a basic starter system - although try to get one that you can incorporate into an expanded one if it grows on you.
One last comment....... If you can, I would go with the bigger system no matter what. Take good care of it and the boxes/manuals, and if you decide you are not going to stay with it, you can get a reasonably good price for it on Ebay.
FWIW,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Silver Pilot,
Not quite upto date on Digitrax upgrading.
I think since the DCS100/200 command station came out there has been one upgrade that required a small fee and and a return to upgrade at the factory. This was several years ago. Since then, there has been no need for an upgrade.
The only upgrades available for the DT400 throttle are to add wireless and to upgrade them to the new DT402 standard. AFAIK all manufacturers require throttles to be returned to the factory for wireless upgrades. In the case of Digitrax the cost to do this is the difference between having purchased the wireless in the first place, very reasonable I think.
As for the DT402 throttles, the upgrade is via software download from the web. You don't even have to crack the case to insert a chip and for what it was worth the upgrade fix they just put out was free.
For anyone buying a DCC system today, if upgrades are a high priority issue, then I would submit that Digitrax offers the best current solution. Personally, I think this is a way over played feature.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Silver Pilot I would recommend the NCE PowerHouse Pro system. Oone primary reason is that ease with which you can upgrade the PHP system. If between now and when your layout is build there are sugnificant changes to either NCE system or to DCC standards, the historical upgrade path for NCE has been to issue a new EPROM chip. For a minimal cost (IIRC the last one was $20) they send you a new EPROM, you open the black box, remove the old and install the new. No need to send the unit back to the factory. In contrast, Digitrax's upgrade path has either been to issue a new system, with no upgrade path for the old system you have, or to come out with some other new piece of hardware, like a new throttle, for you to access new features. No option to send in the old for an upgrade to the new standards. Something to consider. You don't want the DCC system you buy today to be outdated when you finally get around to building your layout in a few years. Either will handle the criteria you listed.
The above statement was almost true up to one and a half months ago. Now it doesn't hold the water. Digitrax command stations did not need any upgrade since 1999. A tribute to how well they are engineered. In addition the DT402 series of throttle are now upgradeable via software download. As Simon pointed out no need to crack open any case to change a chip.
Jack W.
Let's say you have a Zephyr with a DT400 that you purchased 5 years ago, can you access all possible 28 functions? Simple question - simple answer - Yes or No? Nevermind the argument about whether you need to or may even want to, the question is can you?
Sorry I forgot to add another $50-80 to the price of Super Chief so that sound decoders can be programmed.
It is an admitted limitation of the SEB that you can not read back CVs. Whether you (David) like to read them back or not without using DecoderPro and computer connection is irrelevant to this discussion. It is a capability that most other systems have including the Zephyr and SC. There is still a segment, perhaps large segment, of the model railroading population that want to be able to read back CVs without having to go fire up the computer and start DecoderPro. A situation such as a module layout setup for a weekend and the need to program/troubleshoot a decoder would be one example.
Upgrade chip? You make the point. To 'upgrade' the system requires the purchase of new throttles such as a DT400 (from a DT300) to access new capabilities.
CudaKen as in past post lamented the inability of the SEB to read back CVs and the difficulties he has had getting the PR3 to work properly with his locomotives.
Just to set the record straight Silver Pilot.
1 E-Z Command cost me $30.00 with shipping.
2 With the Zephyr never being out of the box, LHS gave full trade toward the SEB.
3 SEB with the $40.00 transformer total cost was $300.00
4 Reason I went with the SEB and not the chief? I bought a PR-3 at the same time. PR 3 running Decoder Pro is much better at reading all the CV's than hunting through hundreds of them and setting them 1 at a time.
5 Total spent on DCC System with the E-Z, extra UP 5, phone cord, PR-3, PS 14 and the SEB is $397.00 with tax.
By your standards I wasted a whole $30.00, if you can call it a waste with it still being used on the work bench?
But you where making the same point I was, buy what you want up front. Main reason I did not like the Zephyr was I wanted the DT 400 and it by it self would run another $135.00.
Wasted a whole $30.00 Ken
Silver PilotThere is still a segment, perhaps large segment, of the model railroading population that want to be able to read back CVs without having to go fire up the computer and start DecoderPro.
Ummm... that would be me. Wayyyy too much work.
Silver Pilot Let's say you have a Zephyr with a DT400 that you purchased 5 years ago, can you access all possible 28 functions? Simple question - simple answer - Yes or No? Nevermind the argument about whether you need to or may even want to, the question is can you?
I have exactly that set up and the simple answer is yes coming this September. Digitrax will upgrade my DT400 for $25.00. Don't forget that with a PHPro purchased 5 years ago you can't access all 29 functions unless you pay and install an upgraded chip. Therefore both system are in the same boat.
Silver Pilot Sorry I forgot to add another $50-80 to the price of Super Chief so that sound decoders can be programmed.
At the club we can program any sound decoders without problem with a Super Chief system. Only some first generation QSI sound decoders may be a problem to read CVs. For these I agree a booster or a resistance across the programming track is required.
Silver Pilot CudaKen as in past post lamented the inability of the SEB to read back CVs and the difficulties he has had getting the PR3 to work properly with his locomotives.
This is correct but for one individual having difficulties with the PR3, many others replied, me included, having no problem whatsoever reading and programming sound decoders. My own experience with a PR3 is with QSI, Soundtrax, Blue Line and Paragon2 decoders.
hardcoalcase........get a zephyr great place to start and if the time comes when you need more umph , upgrade ..... Iv been reading these pages a long time ...if medium size layout not built yet ,4 locco running,no prev dcc ex. .....its a great place to start got mine 112.00 american little used on e-??? and I am happy as a clam.... hey the warrantys are only a year ...heck your on a two to five year plan if I read rite ,tech stuff changes fast who knows whats coming.........save some cash get a zephyr and have some fun while your building...J.W.
Over ten years ago I started with a Digitrax Super Chief (Radio) with a DT100R throttle. I had a plywood pacific in my basement I knew that my basement layout was going to need more AMPS, and needed a booster. It was less expensive to get a Digitrax Empire Builder with a DB150 and a DT100 throttle. I use the DB150 for a booster and sent the DT100 to Digitrax for upgrade to radio. I also purchased an MS100 to program decoders. Since that date I have picked up two DT300R throttles and a DT400R. All are still in full use on the layout and work great.
After making too many trips to the canyon (basement floor) I had to send my DT400R to Digitrax for repair. At the same time I sent my DCS100 to Digitrax to have the command station upgraded from 8 to 12 functions. (Cost was $50 inclding return postage.) I'm not sure why I needed the upgrade as I never used eight functions, but I am moving to sound an may need them at some point.
I will be upgrading to Digitrax duplex radio this fall by purchasing a UR-92 and new UT4D throttles.
Last year I picked up another DB150 on ebay and a power supply. My job takes me away from home and I use the extra DB150 as an away command station. (Small apartment layout.) While my MS100 is still working great at home with Decoder Pro; I have purchased a PR3 to use with the DB150 and my laptop computer on the road. While I can't do much on the layout, I am using the road time to upgrade my fleet of Athearn BB SD40-2 to sound and mobile decoders. With a Digitrax PR3, reading back CVs with the DB150 is not an issue. I gave up punching CVs on a throttle years ago and use Decoder Pro exclusively for programing. Decoder Pro also allows me to use my computer as multiple throttles to run the layout. With a Digitrax PR3 I get programing and a throttle through my computer.
I have a lot of friends who have bought and sold multiple DCC systems over the same time period to get additional features. My old Digitrax keeps on working and working and working!
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Jim, first let me say I am sorry this question has turned into a bit of a fire fight, duck! In coming! It does sometimes happen here at this great board. You can learn a lot here, I have.
jalajoie Silver Pilot Cuda Ken as in past post lamented the inability of the SEB to read back CV's and the difficulties he has had getting the PR3 to work properly with his locomotives. This is correct but for one individual having difficulties with the PR3, many others replied, me included, having no problem whatsoever reading and programming sound decoders. My own experience with a PR3 is with QSI, Soundtrax, Blue Line and Paragon 2 decoders.
Silver Pilot Cuda Ken as in past post lamented the inability of the SEB to read back CV's and the difficulties he has had getting the PR3 to work properly with his locomotives.
Cuda Ken as in past post lamented the inability of the SEB to read back CV's and the difficulties he has had getting the PR3 to work properly with his locomotives.
This is correct but for one individual having difficulties with the PR3, many others replied, me included, having no problem whatsoever reading and programming sound decoders. My own experience with a PR3 is with QSI, Soundtrax, Blue Line and Paragon 2 decoders.
This statement is not correct! Reason I sort of wish I went with the Chief is not because it can read CV's! Reason is the SEB DB 150 does not have a programing track hook up. If the PR 3 was working right, that would have never came up.
On the PR 3, yes many here have given me ideas what might be the problem. To be honest it has not been a big deal to me and have not messed with trying to fix it. David is right reading CV's is not that important 98% of the time!
Again Jim, sorry for the fire fight.
Maybe you should hook up the laptop to the Zephyr instead of the DB150, then you could pull in the settings for new locos when they get added to the layout. How else do you handle someone bringing a loco from home that they've already programmed? You know the address, so you can plug that into JMRI and not overwrite it, but what about all the other settings?
I use JMRI all the time - however for the SIMPLE stuff liek just setting an address, I can do that faster on the Zephyr console or a DT400 than I can in JMRI. Since I have a Zephyr, I can later on go back and read the address and/or program extra stuff for functions - although here the benefit of stickign with one or two brands of decoders comes in handy, after you've done a half dozen you kind of remember what the values are for what CV to make Rule 17 dimming. Theonly time I've found I really NEED JMRI, or at least it makes things MUCH easier, is when soemoen wants a more complex function setting, or programming those crazy multi-part QSI CVs. In working up my control scheme, I've probably used PanelPro more than DecoderPro.
Part of my reluctance is my dislike for XML and the use thereof as a 'database'. It's just a bad idea in so many ways, but since this isn;t a computer programmign forum I'll leave it there. Which is also why I have a back-burner project to read the DecoderPro XML and store the data alongside the rest of the loco info in Dave Husman's car card and roster database. As well as move that database into something more robust than Access. A solid database plus an offsite backup copy, once I get a picture of each loco and piece of rollign stock I have, will be the disaster recovery bit for insurance purposes - which I hope I will never need.
Well, as you can see, it's not a question with a simple answer.
I bought my Lenz System 100 a bit over 4 years ago. At the time, it had capacities and capabilities that other systems did not. It is a 5-amp system right out ouf the box, while many others were only 2.5 amp. It supported 13 functions, which was state-of-the art in 2005. And, with my big fingers and aging eyeballs, the large, friendly buttons on the throttle made me more comfortable than the little cell-phone buttons on all the others.
I have been completely happy with this system, and have no plans for upgrades. For my layout, 5 amps is plenty. I picked up an extra "engineer's" throttle, because I thought I might like the large analog throttle control dial, but as it turns out I never use it. In fact, if I ever get around to multi-operator action on my layout, I'll probably pick up another "dispatcher's" throttle rather than saddle anyone else with the low-end one.
The higher functions now available don't interest me, to tell the truth. I have sound engines, and I enjoy them, but I don't need the "station announcements" or "mooing cows" or whatever else comes out of those speakers when you get to the point where they ran out of meaningful engine noises.
However, much has changed in 4 years. While Lenz was on the cutting edge back then, they really haven't released anything new, other than some very high-end block signalling stuff I'm not interested in. Other manufacturers have added radio throttles and whole new systems. I expect this to continue.
My advice, then is to buy a basic system, but one that's already expandable. If you plan to operate with radio throttles, it might be a good idea to get that now, although a control bus for tethered throttles isn't that big a deal to add.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley...I bought my Lenz System 100 a bit over 4 years ago. At the time, it had capacities and capabilities that other systems did not. It is a 5-amp system right out ouf the box, while many others were only 2.5 amp. It supported 13 functions, which was state-of-the art in 2005...The higher functions now available don't interest me, to tell the truth...
davidmbedardCSX Robert Just to be clear, Lenz does now support functions up to F28, and older system scan be upgraded to provide that support. Just so I am clear, who cares? Who cares about functions over 12 or 8 even?
CSX Robert Just to be clear, Lenz does now support functions up to F28, and older system scan be upgraded to provide that support.
Just so I am clear, who cares? Who cares about functions over 12 or 8 even?
davidmbedardI just don't see the need to hear the toilet lid slamming down.....
David,Um, I hate to break it to you, but BLI's new Paragon2 line of sound decoders have 28 functions, and so does MTH (I know, I know...they are barely DCC but they do have 28 DCC functions). The 28 functions is an NMRA item, not an MRC item. MTH was first, then MRC, and now BLI. MRC was the first DCC system that had 28 functions, but MTH made the first loco that had 28 functions.
Other than that, yeah, most of the higher functions are all but useless. But if they are totally customizable, then I can pick the first 12 I like so I can play with them with my DT400R without too much problem. For example, I like the speed call out of F10, I like having a grade crossing sequence built into a function for the horns (but I still want both long and short toots for other things), I like various other doodads like more realistic braking performance, various 1-button sound volumes, and things like that. I'm not into "train wreck sounds" or other nonsense.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Well Paul looks like you beat me to the keyboard.
Yes Paragon2 decoders support F0 to F28 and I particularly appreciate the F13=Grade Crossing Horn. Fortunately the documentation for these decoders is so well written that mapping function above F12 to something in the F0-F12 range is a piece of cake.
LOL
I always love a thread where the different makes are argued as who's the best.
I'm personally an NCE user but from what I've seen if comes down to a couple of things.
1. After trying a couple of samples, which one works for you functionally.
2. If you're planning on joining a club, it's a good idea to use what they use, since you'll probably be using your controller.
3. What is the expansion path of each system. Each major brand has one.
4. Consider radio. Once you try it you'll never go back so I suggest you start there, especially if you have a large layout.
If you haven't started the layout yet, I'd suggest that you wait until benchwork and some track is laid. Shortly after I'd look into a couple of Loco's and a system. Don't wait too long though. All work and no play often results in a dust collecting layout.
Springfield PA
davidmbedard The question is, why do we actually need higher functions? I submit to you that the higher function "need" is an MRC feature that MRC wants you to have so that MRC can sell more systems and MRC can sell more sound decoders. In short, it is an MRC thing. I don't see Digitrax, QSI, Loksound, Soundtraxx, or any other MFG of sound decoder claiming that they actually support above function 12. MRC is the only company that uses the 28 functions as a selling point for their sound decoder. So why bother?....unless you really like MRC sound decoders... David B
The question is, why do we actually need higher functions? I submit to you that the higher function "need" is an MRC feature that MRC wants you to have so that MRC can sell more systems and MRC can sell more sound decoders. In short, it is an MRC thing.
I don't see Digitrax, QSI, Loksound, Soundtraxx, or any other MFG of sound decoder claiming that they actually support above function 12. MRC is the only company that uses the 28 functions as a selling point for their sound decoder. So why bother?....unless you really like MRC sound decoders...
David B
David, with all due respect you've have ignored the part of my question about skipping the argument about whether they are needed or not or if you want to access them, the question STILL is, with the setup described, Can you? Put aside your bias against MRC decoders, its not about MRC, it has to do with accessing (or conforming to being able to access) the 28 functions that are part of the NMRA standard.
After reviewing the NMRA DCC standards, here's an example of a possible use for something above F12 and for readback of CVs without using a computer. Just imagine having CVs that you could program for the amount of fuel, water or coal on board the loco. As you run your train fuel is consumed, if you fail to stop and re-fuel. when the CV hits 0, your loco stops where it is, or if you run out of water all of a sudden you hear an exploding boiler. The CVs control how much you have on board, the function controls with the CV settings have any effect. Turn on f15 and the water CVs now have effect. Now, you'll need to read back the balance of the CV so you know if you need to make that water stop or not. It would add an interesting twist to operations. For those that think this is far fetched, it is already being done with digital slotcars and the need to make a pitstop for fuel during a race.
It's still a pointless argument as all systems currently on the market (maybe not CVP - did they have an upgrade for 28 functions yet?) do all current NMRA functions. They're there regardless of which system you go for, if you really need them.
As for reading back values on the fly, Digitrax has had that ability for YEARS. If you're careful with your layout design and wiring, it works pretty well, but it's touchy. The NMRA has once again adopted a Lenz idea as the psuedo-standard, and there are several systems supporting it now, but it is every bit as finicky as Digitrax's transponding PLUS there are still issues with non-decoder loads on the track (lighted cars, etc). If I had to guess, we'll have onboard battery power with radio control before we get all this feedback stuff working reliably across the board regardless of decoder or system brand.
Silver Pilot,"jalajoie" already answered your question back on August 9th.
At this very second, no, one cannot access F28 with a DT400 purchased 5 years ago. However, starting next month, one will be able to access F28 when one sends in a DT400 into Digitrax and they turn it into a DT402 for $25.
All this talk about upgrading throttles and all that... Ask any Digitrax user whether they wish Digitrax had simply upgraded the software of the DT100/DT300 over the years or put out the DT400. The answer, IMHO, will be heavily weighted towards the "glad they made the DT400" camp.
Sure, NCE and MRC stole a march on Digitrax with supporting F28, but it's not like Digitrax hasn't lead the way in the past:First to offer plug-n-play decodersFirst to offer a decoder under $20.First to offer infrared DCC throttlesFirst to offer radio DCC throttlesFirst to offer bi-directional communication with decoders ("Transponding")First to offer an integrated DCC signal systemFirst to offer support of F9-F12
And so on...
what Paul said
i do prefer the size of the 100/300 though, but smaller means more button combo's required, not to bad for just movement and lights, but when sound etc comes into it, the more buttons the better..
and on the subject of sound, i would like to see ( wish ) that digitrax would allow you to set all the function buttons ( their outputs really as the button is just push with no latch ) to either latching or non latching as a user selectable choice. i get frustrated with having to hit function buttons twice on my sound loco as it doesn't the see the 'off' command on the function as an activation of the sound. so you have to clear each function except the factory non latching F2 button/function. even the bachmann dynamis allows the user to set the latching aspect of functions, and it sets those latching options for each address. so if say F3 is coupler noise on loco A and it isn't latching, if you select loco B, and F3 is a cab light, it can be latching so it stays on when you let go of the button. to me this is the only option digitrax don't offer that i would want to make use of.