Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Failure to Launch (PowerCab)

2418 views
20 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Friday, August 7, 2009 2:21 PM

mcfunkeymonkey
&, (sigh), yes, that's an unnecessary gap in the stock rail above the first circle on the right.

You might want to revisit that gap before you get too far along.  It appears, from the photo anyway, that there is a horizontal offset between the ends of those gapped rails.  I think that'll be bound to give you tracking problems if not corrected.

By the way, the rest of the track laying is better than I'll ever be able to do, especially since it's N scale.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Riverside,Ca.
  • 1,127 posts
Posted by spidge on Friday, August 7, 2009 1:28 PM

The main reason to power the frogs is to better reduce the chance of a stall. If you would like to know some alternative set ups for this start a new thread as is off this topic.

 

John

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Friday, August 7, 2009 12:40 PM

maxman

I'm happy it is working for you, but I think I'm still missing something on how you have this gapped.  In the second circle from the left, the tie on the right side seems to be connecting the two diverging rails.  Does this not make a connection between two opposing polarities (and/or phases)?

Or is that an unnecessary gap in the stock rail above the first circle on the right?

Yes, that tie is connecting the two diverging rails & wasn't gapped.  After I made that cut, & the corresponding one on the other turnout, the short disappeared & trains started rolling ;)

&, (sigh), yes, that's an unnecessary gap in the stock rail above the first circle on the right.
A casualty of my first time using a dremel disk Whistling
I'm just putting the mandrel in my drill (since I don't have a dremel), & while it cuts fine & only at a slight angle, it is a wee bit awk.

The second cut is better (only nicked a tiny chunk out of that stock rail!).

As for powering the frog: my 44tonner makes it through the turnouts fine as is with dead frog.  Is there any reason to power the frog?

Thanks for all the feedback, people!
This is definately helping my understand the scary & fantastical world of electricity & dcc!
--Mark

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Friday, August 7, 2009 9:32 AM

Mark,

And even though you've cut gaps in your turnout, you'll still need to solder a wire to the frog in order to power it for switching.  For manual switching, the Caboose Industries 220S ground throw works well.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Friday, August 7, 2009 8:55 AM

I'm happy it is working for you, but I think I'm still missing something on how you have this gapped.  In the second circle from the left, the tie on the right side seems to be connecting the two diverging rails.  Does this not make a connection between two opposing polarities (and/or phases)?

Or is that an unnecessary gap in the stock rail above the first circle on the right?

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, August 7, 2009 6:53 AM

Was going to say, the cut in the tie just below the left purple circle in the last image is definitely not through the copper foil. Photos help with more than just getting scenery to look right. Hmm, this could be a followup article to Pelle Soeberg's in the last MR....

 

                                            --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Friday, August 7, 2009 1:27 AM
Got it!
The gap right above the cut at the top of each turnout had a tie that wasn't clean enough.
I cut a good groove in each, & the thing worked!
Yeay!
We have a section of operationable track!
Wheeeee!

Thanks for all yr help!
--Mark
  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Friday, August 7, 2009 1:12 AM

Here's a close up:

I thought I isolated the frogs & upper point rails with the cuts & grooves in the pcboard ties, but maybe I'm missing something.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Riverside,Ca.
  • 1,127 posts
Posted by spidge on Friday, August 7, 2009 12:13 AM

maxman

I can't quite tell from the photo, but it appears that the second long tie you have at the frog is beyond the gap you cut and is tying the two frog rails together.  But maybe I'm not seeing the photo clearly.

I agree, but its difficult to know for sure from the photo.

 

John

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:58 PM

I can't quite tell from the photo, but it appears that the second long tie you have at the frog is beyond the gap you cut and is tying the two frog rails together.  But maybe I'm not seeing the photo clearly.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:31 PM

I cut the point rails to isolate the frog, but it seems there's still a short somewhere.
Here's the setup:

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 768x1024 and weights 116KB.


The Red & White are the feeders to the bus underneath.
The purple circles the cuts I made to isolate the frog.

I went back & made sure all the cuts in the pcb ties are clean.
There might be some metal burrs still in the cuts.

Am I missing something?
Thanks for all yr help for a electronics-challenged dude!
--Mark

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:34 AM

Just hooked everything up to an isolated test track & all works fine.

It's definately the turnouts.

Guess I'll slip a couple pcb ties under the point rails near the frog, solder, & then make a cut before the frog.  But will work it out.

Thanks!

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:19 AM

If you've got your Power Cab correctly connected into the LEFT socket of the PCP panel...and it's blinking on and off...you've definitely got a short somewhere.  Disconnect the new portion of track and see if the problem goes away.  You should be able to narrow it down from there.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Riverside,Ca.
  • 1,127 posts
Posted by spidge on Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:00 AM

The frog does need to be isolated if this is handlaid track otherwise there will be a standing short and the powercab will keep attempting to send powere, but end up shutting down. Can you isolate the turnout or switch your power leads to another piece of track not connected to the turnouts and test the setup?

John

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Thursday, August 6, 2009 10:53 AM

I think my frog is touching / connected to the point rails.

I made them pretty snug, & dropped some solder in underneath the frog to secure it to the pc board & it might have connected with the point rails.

Any way to deal with this (other than rip out turnouts & start over?)

Thanks.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Thursday, August 6, 2009 10:31 AM

Got everything plugged into correct spot.

The red light doesn not come on, though the cab panel does.

It blinks slowly.

I do have facing turnouts (a single crossover), but maybe I didn't cut the gap clean enough with the dremel.  Or, I didn't gap the pcboard ties well enough when I made them.

Will check!

Thanks!
--Mark

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Riverside,Ca.
  • 1,127 posts
Posted by spidge on Thursday, August 6, 2009 10:25 AM

Also, you mention panels(plural) remember the Powercab is the command station so it only works in the one socket in the power panel. The additional panels you can daisey chain are not made to accept the track power. In fact your additional throttle will not work unless the Powercab is plugged in but the extra throttle will work out of panels downstream.. Are you using the flat six wire cord or the springy cable. The springy cable is a four wire cord and does not carry the extra two track wires so be sure you use it. That springy cord is for using the Powercab on other layouts where it is not the command station.

Have you installed any turnouts that could be causing shorts?

John

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Riverside,Ca.
  • 1,127 posts
Posted by spidge on Thursday, August 6, 2009 10:19 AM

So your plugged into the correct powerpanel socket, and the red light comes on(track power indicator), but no reponse from the loco. It sounds like there is a problem in the loco. Is it the only DCC loco you have? Is the track clean? If located in the garage or basement it only takes a day or two to muddle up the track. Could the track feeders have come undone?

John

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Thursday, August 6, 2009 10:02 AM

Got it in the right panel.

When I plug it in (to the correct master / powercab jack), the screen flashes on & off at one sec intervals.

I'll read the manual again.

Thanks!

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, August 6, 2009 7:14 AM

 Are you plugged in to the proper jack on the PowerCab's panel? The PowerCab ONLY works when plugged in to the left jack on the PowerCab's panel (the one the pwoer supply goes in, and the track wires hook to). It does NOT work plugged in to any downstream cab plate. The downstream cab plates are only for a second cab.

                                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
  • 835 posts
Failure to Launch (PowerCab)
Posted by mcfunkeymonkey on Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:16 AM

I installed all the bus wires & cab plates.

I hooked up some feeder wires to test on a section of track.

All worked fine.  My n-scale 44tonner moved back & forth, no problem.

But now I've laid some real track and the light's on, but no one is home.

I plug my cab into the panel & the startup sequence happens on the cab screen, but the light on the panel doesn't come on, & the train doesn't move.

Speed & direction show up on the cab, but no movement from the loco.

I'd be less confused if the system didn't work a month ago on the test track.
Any suggestions?

Thanks!
--Mark

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!