I have two old Tyco locos that I like and wanted to install decoders. MRC was selling AD321's on their website for under $10.00 each and I figured that I would have a go at it. With some slight modifications I thought I had successfully installed an AD321 in each. When testing the locos each one responded and ran fine for a minute or so and then went dead. I went back and forth with MRC on this sending in the decoders for repair only to have it happen again. They asked for one of the locos, which I sent to them. I received it back last week labeled "mechanism not suitable for DCC Decoders". Has anyone successfully installed a decoder in an old Tyco with the pancake motor built into the truck?
If not, what can I power it with instead that would work with DCC?
Ken, first and second any thing can be done if your are to stupid to know you can't do it! Ask me how I know!
It could be done and if it is your bride and joy rebuild it. If you are trying to save money it will cost you more in the long run.
There is something to be said in fixing junk, you can learn a lot by doing it! When I joined this great site 4 years ago I was told I was wasting my time on fixing the junk I bought of E-Bay. Way I looked at it was if I bought new good stuff I will ware it out and have to figure out how to fix it! So why not learn how to do it up front? Thanks to hands on fixing I repaired a $600.00 engine that the warranty department at BLI / PCM could not fix.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Did you check the DC motor current with a multimeter?
Usually, one motor brush is connected to the frame. Did you isolate this motor brush.
If the loco did run, it sounds like you had the correct wiring, WAG.
Were all the wire connections insulated from each other?
What is the max current rating of the decoder?
If you do not have a meter, here is what you should have in your tool box. I have three of them.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90899
The 10 amp DC current option is what you need to measure motor current. I measure the DC current at twelve volts DC on every DCC install. Some people lock the wheels for max current reading. Some people press on the wheels to slow the motor down and put a load on the motor.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Rich,
My DC stall amps were 0.60 Amps and I ran the loco on a 3 ft. section of flex track connected to the main connections on my Prodigy Advance Squared System. I installed a 2 A fuse in one of the leads to the track. The decoder was rated for 3A. The fuse did not blow. I brought the decoder back to life one time by reprogramming it multiple times but it eventually failed again. MRC claimed that there was either a short or too much current. I wrung out both locos with a VOM multiple times and they checked out. I had successfully isolated the motor from the housing according to my VOM. I have converted 4 other locos already but they are not Tycos. One was a Lionel with a pancake motor and I got that one to run fine after sending it's decoder in to MRC for repair "only once".MRC has not been forthcoming with their failure analysis of the decoders that I have sent in. They just fix them and send them back.
I am trying to determine if the problem is a Tyco problem or a MRC problem. I was hoping to find someone with a working Tyco loco that was sucessfully converted and ask them what decoder they used. MRC does not publish a list of "mechanisms not suitable for DCC decoders". If they did and listed Tyco locos as one of them, I would not have bought their decoders in the first place. I figured that the MRC decoders should run on MRC equipment, but was mistaken. They never bothered to tell me why the decoder will not work in the Tyco pancake motor frame. I was schooled as an avionics tech and would have liked a technical explanation as to how they arrived at this conclusion. After reading the many, many posts on MRC decoders, I am not sure that the Tyco wouldn't run on a different manufacturers decoder. I would like to get some advice before trying another brand.
I have a fleet mostly consisting of Athearn locos that I was going to eqip with MRC decoders but am now reconsidering using Digitrax instead. If you have any reccommendations for decoders for Athearn GP38's and SD-40's I am open to advice on that front as well.
Thanks, Ken
It can be done if the grounded brush is isolated from the frame. Stock has the brush grounded to the frame so the power goes from the track to the wheels to the trucks to the brushes. If isolated correctly the power will go from the track to the wheels to the trucks to the decoder to the brushes. Neither brush should have any direct connection to the track. Doing this with the pancake motor is somewhat easier than with the old MU-2 Mantua in-truck motor though the pancake motor is of far more inferior quality. I usually replace such mechanisms with far better Bachmann or Athearn mechanisms. I have one Bachmann GP40 I bought in 1977 that I've totally rebuilt and only a couple of pieces of the frame are original.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Ok, I could not tell from your post what kind of experience you had.
I looked up the AD321 and it looks like it is good for 3 amps. Should have worked ok unless there is some kind of spiking going on. I do know there is a lot fo negative reactions to MRC decoders on these forums. Some people will not answer questions about MRC decoders. I had one MRC decoder in a steam loco and removed it for a better brand. Best I can do.
Others may comment.
When the motor swivels with the truck, is there anyway a motor lead might contact the frame?
Are you talking about a late 70's early 80's Tyco diesel? If so I doubt that the motor can be successfully isolated from the truck. I have a couple (one my first HO loco) taht I looked into converting but deemed them inappropriate. Since the whole truck is electrically live and the motor grounds to it theres just too much potential for problems. Perhaps converting to plastic axles and making wheel wipers can help but its a lot of work. FWIW I plan to turn mine into sound dummies eventually.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
Compund that motor design witht he fact that they only pick up power on 2 wheels on each truck - and one of them usually has traction tires! If you absolutely positively can;t get that road name in a better quality unit (and even Athearn Blue Box locos are light years beyond that old Tyco stuff), sonsider remotoring it with a different drive. If you must run it for nostalgia sake, if your DCC system supports runnign a DC loco on address 0, run it that way. I rememebr my odl Tyco diesels from when I was a kid. FIrst train set or not, I wouldn;t bother trying to make it run on DCC today. If anything it would go in a display case where I could ponin out that it was my first train set, the one the truly was given directly to me and not inherited or Dad's trains that I was allowed to run, but all mine.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I live in Australia and although I havent converted a tyco loco I have converted two Lifelike locos to dcc using digitrax decoders. The flat decoder that is good for atlas locosDH165. I had one in Proto BLI and it kept stalling so changed it out into the lifelike as a trial an found it worked so used the second one to power the matching loco. Converted the BLI with a digitrax DH126 and it runs well. must be some difference in the handling capabilities of the decoder/motor combination.
I have about 80 locos of various makes/vintages, including one of those old Tycos. Most of them have been converted to DCC, and the rest will be eventually.
Except for the Tyco, that is. The only reason it hasn't already been sent to the circular file is because it has some sentimental value. But it's strictly a shelf queen. I have absolutely no desire to inflict pain on myself by attempting to get it to run decently on DC, let alone convert it to DCC. And there's no possible way that Tyco shell is worth the trouble to put a different chassis under it.
But this brings up an interesting point: Why would anyone even care that the MRC decoder is rated at 3 amps, unless you were going to use it in S or O scale? In HO scale, having to consider that much current for a motor decoder means you already have problems.
Getting that fixed would be my first order of business, which is why my Tyco will forever remain a shelf queen: The high current draw and difficulty in isolating the brushes are inherent in it's design. There's no worthwhile way to fix it.
Steve
davidmbedardHmmm....Tyco and MRC......a match made in heaven, perhaps? Let us know how it turns out.David B
Hmmm....Tyco and MRC......a match made in heaven, perhaps? Let us know how it turns out.
David B
LOL!
I actually thought this was a "stir up the hornet nest" post. When I saw it I thought...oh boy put on your flame suit. Sadly Tyco does not get much respect around here and apparently that is for good reason. As for MRC, they made great DC power packs but I have not heard a lot of good things about their DCC systems and I have yet to hear any praise for MRC decoders.
davidmbedard It was a "they are at the same level of quality post".David B
It was a "they are at the same level of quality post".
Sorry David, I should have clarified that I meant the OP's post seemed like a stir up the hornet nest post, not yours. :o)
Having owned Tyco rolling stock and having read lots of bad press about the MRC decoders I think I would agree that they are of similar quality and usefulness.
I guess if one is going to put a decoder in a Tyco loco it might as well be an MRC decoder as they both should remain on the shelf rather than being put into service on the layout.