Rivarossi Cabforward /BLI sound tender hookup

[ESPEE LIVES]

I hope somebody can help me on this one, I have a Broadway Limited AC-4 tender with dc/dcc sound that I have purchased on EBAY. I purchased it in hope of being able to adapted it to my DC Rivarossi Cabforward. I was thinking that all of the electronics that give the locomotive its sound in the DC mode would be in the tender so therefore it was just a matter of attaching the tender to my Rivarossi and go. Apparently not! All I get out of it is just bell,whistle, air pumps and a occasional chuff, basically all the idle sounds. I don't get any of the working power sounds when the locomotive is running.What do I need to do to the DC Rivarossi unit so that it is compatiable with the dc sound unit in the Bradway limited tender so that I get all of the working sounds? If I would convert the Rivarossi model over to DCC would I then be able to use the BLI sound tender with all of its functions? Rich

[ESPEE LIVES]

Wow, I guess I have not only stumped the people at Tony's Trains DCC forum but this forum also ! I tried getting the wiring schematic from BLI / PCM but they said none are available, I attempted to see how my BLI 3751 was wired thinking that all I needed to do was wire the Rivarossi Cabforward in a like manner to the BLI sound tender but..... I would pretty much have to disassemble the 3751 far beyond that I would be comfortable in doing to see how the locomotive is wired. So..............does anyone have any other ideas?There just has to be away! I know why don't I just buy a sound equipped Intermountain or a BLI Cabforward. The one biggest reason is that the Rivarossi will negotiate a 18"radius curve because both power trucks are articulated where the others are not. Rich

[claycts]

WOW you are hoping to make a DC work like DCC. Let us start from #1

The Motor in a DCC system is ISOLATED from the frame and you run SEPARATE wire from the Decoder to the Right and Left Rail pickup and then run Separate wires to the motor. The MOTOR CAN NOT be connected to anything but those (2) wires from the decoder.

The way your AC-4 is now the WIRES from the motor go to the PICKUPS from the track and that is how 12v dc gets to the motor. In DCC the power from the track goes thru the RED and BLACK wires to the decoder which then sends the power to the motor.

That is DCC in a nutshell. Is the AC-4 already DCC and you are on DC power which allows certain things to work and others do not. For ALL BLI functions to work you must be DCC.

Hope I did not confuse you with all the tech stuff. Short answer was ALL BLI FUNCTIONS work in DCC only.

Take Care

George P.

[ESPEE LIVES]

My Rivarossi AC11 Cabforward is wired for DC, the BLI/PCM AC4 sound tender is wired both for DC and DCC operation from the factory. What I am trying to find out is how can I wire my Rivarossi that is DC to the BLI sound tender that is both DC and DCC compatible. As of now there is no wiring connections between the locomotive and tender, I need to find out how and where to run the wires from the tender to the locomotive either in its now DC configuration or by changing it over to a DCC configuration. Basically the tender has a 6 pronged plug while the locomotive has nothing for it to plug into . Rich

[C&O Fan]

ESPEE LIVES

My Rivarossi AC11 Cabforward is wired for DC, the BLI/PCM AC4 sound tender is wired both for DC and DCC operation from the factory. What I am trying to find out is how can I wire my Rivarossi that is DC to the BLI sound tender that is both DC and DCC compatible. As of now there is no wiring connections between the locomotive and tender, I need to find out how and where to run the wires from the tender to the locomotive either in its now DC configuration or by changing it over to a DCC configuration. Basically the tender has a 6 pronged plug while the locomotive has nothing for it to plug into . Rich

 

You can get a parts drawing at

http://www.hoseeker.org/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahm4884cabforwardpg1.jpg

You can read what others wrote on the cab forward at

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/model/HO-steam.php

You might try posting your question at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WiringForDCC/

 

 

[trainnut1250]

Rich,

The BLI's are DCC locos with a DC option, so I'm pretty sure you need to convert the loco to DCC for proper operation of the decoder in either DCC or DC mode.  The decoder may be looking for feedack from the motor to enable the chuffs to work properly.  I think you will need to isolate the motor and headlight in any case (DCC or DC) from the frame if you use the tender connected to the engine.  My guess would be that the decoder doesn't want to see track voltage coming back to it via the motor/accessory leads. 

 I do know that some of the BLI sound functions do work in DC, not sure which ones and, as George points out, the selection is limited.  BLI has this info. They also sell a "sound box" device for DC use that expands the options available in DC mode. 

Random guess would be that the plug has the following connections in the six pins: 2 pins for the motor, 2 pins for the track power pick from the loco (presuming all wheel pick up in the BLI) and two wires for the headlight.  I'm not sure what the configuration for the pins would be but there may be a standard.  I'm sure some one can help you out at BLI with this info and with possible corrections to my guesses.  You might also want to pick up a mate for the plug from them as well.

Other wise you could hardwire the connection or cast about for some micro-connectors that fit the socket on the tender.  Check the wiring for DCC site for info on standard wiring codes for DCC and info about conversion.   

BTW if it matters to you, I believe that the prototype tender for the AC -4 is quite a bit different than the tender for the AC-12 (Rivarossi)...I would still use it - sounds like a resourceful way to avoid installing a sound decoder in the tender (buy it done for you).

Good luck with your adventure,

 Guy

[ESPEE LIVES]

Guy, Thanks for the USEFUL information, finally I have something to go by and I hope a way to figure this problem out. I know that the AC11's did not use this tender but the AC6's did and some AC6's had the newer rounded cab on them and as far as I can tell by my Cabforward book the AC6 was pretty much the same as an AC11 as far as I can tell, therefore I is just a matter of doing a renumbering job of the locomotive to make things correct. Rich

[lutherman]

A related question:

 

I was planning on replacing the quantum DCC chip in my BLI Cab Forward tender.  Sound is not good and not even close to proto.  Picked up a soundtraxx chip that has the distinctive cross compound sound of a cab forward, but after removing the quantum board, have no clue where to even begin.  Any suggestions?

[lutherman]

lutherman

A related question:

 

I was planning on replacing the quantum DCC chip in my BLI Cab Forward tender.  Sound is not good and not even close to proto.  Picked up a soundtraxx chip that has the distinctive cross compound sound of a cab forward, but after removing the quantum board, have no clue where to even begin.  Any suggestions?

 

 

After getting little help from BLI tech support, it appears that the 6 pin wiring harness is the same as on an Athearn Genesis FEF-3/Challenger/Big Boy.  Did the FEF-3 Genesis unit last night - will tweak it tonight and start the BLI Cab Forward Quantum replacement with the TSU-1000 cab forward chip perhaps tomorrow.

[farrellaa]

Rich,

Before I converted to DCC I had 2 BLI DC/DCC Hudsons w/sound and bought a BLI DC remote that allowed me to play the sounds on DC. I think it was called the 'Engineer' or something like that and cost about $40 (I sold mine after going DCC, and have no regrets!). This should function with the BLI tender and not affect the DC loco operation. Just a thought.

   -Bob

UPDATE: I just found a listing for the 'Quantum Engineer' and it was made by Atlas. Don't know if the newer one works with the CabForward you have.  http://www.atlasrr.com/dcc/quantumengineer.htm

[rrinker]

If this is a newer Paragon II loco from BLI, it also has a chuff sensor in the loco to synchronize the chuffs, which of course will not be present in the Rivarossi loco.

          --Randy