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can i make any dc engine dcc

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can i make any dc engine dcc
Posted by bootleg_conductor on Friday, March 27, 2009 1:41 PM

Hello i am going to go dcc soon and i hace a few dc engines that are nice i was wondering if i could make them dcc like do i have to wire a chip and stuff? i am not afraid to cut wires and solder i have been doing stuff like that for awhile so can i do it ,also what do i need and how or is it not worth it TIA    

" the power behind you is stronger then the power against you" (i think like a train weird)
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Posted by elansp on Friday, March 27, 2009 2:16 PM

yup

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Posted by bootleg_conductor on Friday, March 27, 2009 2:18 PM

ok how?

 

" the power behind you is stronger then the power against you" (i think like a train weird)
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Posted by skagitrailbird on Friday, March 27, 2009 2:23 PM

 At least theoretically any DC locomotive can be converted to DCC.  In practice, however, some may be so difficult as to make them "impossible."  Others may not be worth the time and expense of doing the conversion.

 The first and absolute requirement is that the motor be isolated from the track.  In DC, track power (DC) is delivered directly to the motor.  The power pack alters polarity to reverse direction and adjusts voltage to change the locomotive's speed.  In DCC, track power (modified AC) is delivered to the decoder which rectifies it (changes to DC) and varies the voltage based upon commands it receives from your contreoler through the command station.  If the motor is not isolated, you will let the smoke out of the decoder.

 Newer locomotives are generally what is called DCC ready, meaning they are made with the motor isolated.  These may require some soldering, wire cutting, etc. Many come with a plug (NMRA eight pin or JST 9 pin) into which one plugs a decoder--no soldering required.  And some come DCC equipped meaning they have decoders already installed.

 Good luck with your conversion to DCC.  You'll never look back!

Roger Johnson
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, March 27, 2009 2:29 PM

I model in HOj (1:80 scale) so I can't speak for N scale.  Looking at my collection of DC locos, converting them to DCC ranges from dead simple to impossible:

  • Dead simple - recent acquisitions with DCC sockets, aka, "Plug and play."
  • Some soldering of leads - most of my (1960s vintage) brass steamers and catenary motors.
  • Machine down weights (or body castings) to make space - a few brass and die-cast tank locos, all of my diesel-hydraulics, a few of my catenary motors.
  • Fuhgeddaboudit - one 0-4-0T (prototype built in 1873.)  Superstructure is solid lead, with barely enough clearance for the vertical-shaft open-frame motor.  The lead is thin, so there's no place to cut away enough to make space for a decoder.

 

One caveat - I have the necessary equipment and skills to do micro-wiring of circuit boards and other components.

So, why don't I convert to DCC and retire old #60?  Because I'm quite happy with analog DC, MZL system - but I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner unless he's a wiring freak.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by bootleg_conductor on Friday, March 27, 2009 4:15 PM

i have the motor isalated engine they are shaft driven no contact the motor sits in the middle and spinns two shafts

 

" the power behind you is stronger then the power against you" (i think like a train weird)
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, March 27, 2009 4:43 PM

bootleg_conductor
ok how?

It depends on the locomotive, but generally as the others have said.  1. electrically isolate the motor from the frame or track power.
2. Install a decoder into the wiring between the track power and motor.
 

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, March 27, 2009 7:56 PM

Two words:  Yes, but...

You didn't mention scale.  In HO, you can find room under the shell of most engines for a decoder.  For N scale, that may not be as simple.

How well does the engine run on DC?  If it's smooth and doesn't stall, then it's probably worth it.  If not, you'll find that it runs even worse on DCC.  Fact of life.

For HO, go out and buy one Digitrax DH 123.  That's a good, basic decoder that supports motor and headlights.  It comes with instructions that are easy to follow.  Some soldering required.  I'd recommend getting small-diameter shrink tubing for insulation.

I started 4 years ago with a fleet of engines 45-50 years old.  Of the dozen or so locos, only one ended up on my layout with a decoder.  The rest just were not worth trying to salvage.  That one engine was one of the oldest, easily over a half-century.  But, it was really, really noisy, and I ended up swapping out the chassis for a new one.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by mfm37 on Saturday, March 28, 2009 5:40 AM

 What scale? The answers to your question can be more prcise if you mentioned which scale you are modeling.

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Posted by bootleg_conductor on Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:06 AM

i have HO scale

 

" the power behind you is stronger then the power against you" (i think like a train weird)
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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:18 AM

 I'll say the answer is ALWAYS yes. What changes is the difficulty factor. Even that loco Chuck mentioned - you can always put a deocder in a car that remains coupled to that particular loco. There's ALWAYS a way, so long as you have enough talent, patience, and money. Some are so simpel it takes longer to get the shell off than install the decoder. Some are so complicted you need to cut or file away aprts of the frame, swap out the motor, or use the traler car trick. Maybe all 3 for the same install.

                                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by bootleg_conductor on Saturday, March 28, 2009 6:26 PM

well i have the pacience talent and money(to some extent) i am not afraid to go in to mess of wireing and ajusting i have been doing wireing/soldering/lighting and lots more for some time now i also have some video help too ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9xB_ZyudGs&feature=related ) graet stuff well wish me good luck  ;) i will let u guys/gals know when i get a chip and dcc stuff and try it

" the power behind you is stronger then the power against you" (i think like a train weird)
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Posted by wjstix on Monday, March 30, 2009 2:23 PM

The "chip" I suspect you're referring to is the DCC decoder?? Anyway it depends on what you have. Most engines made in the last 10 years are made for either "plug and play" installations - you pull out a dummy plug, and plug in a decoder - or "drop-in" installations, where you remove the green light board and replace it with a decoder shaped like the light board.

Some decoders you'd use for a 'plug-in' installation are available with an 8-pin plug built into them, others have a 'harness' attached with an eight-pin plug connected to it.

A "hard wire" installation (soldering wires etc.) is generally only needed where the first two options aren't available (although in a 'drop-in' installation you may want to solder the wires in place.)

Generally the motors are isolated already on newer engines except for Athearn "Blue Box" diesels. But Digitrax makes a harness to use to wire them up for DCC and comes with good instructions.

You'll need to look inside your engine before buying the decoder for it, to determine what type of decoder you need.

DCC For Beginners - Tony's Trains

Stix
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Monday, March 30, 2009 2:48 PM

Randy,

The flaw in your reasoning is that #60 is my shop switcher - which means there is no way that it will always have a car coupled to it, never mind the same car...

Actually, if I really had to, I could probably fit a decoder into the frame between the driver axles - assuming that a decoder that small could handle the current of a 1950s vertical shaft motor.

Happily, I don't have to.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by bootleg_conductor on Monday, March 30, 2009 7:27 PM

my oldest engine is 2 years old so there more new then old .yeah i call a decoder a chip sorry if i messed u up by that

" the power behind you is stronger then the power against you" (i think like a train weird)
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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:07 AM

tomikawaTT

Randy,

The flaw in your reasoning is that #60 is my shop switcher - which means there is no way that it will always have a car coupled to it, never mind the same car...

Actually, if I really had to, I could probably fit a decoder into the frame between the driver axles - assuming that a decoder that small could handle the current of a 1950s vertical shaft motor.

Happily, I don't have to.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

 If my friend can get decoders in his scratchbuilt N scale turn of the century Camelbacks, I'm pretty sure one could be fitted to that 60's shop switcher. Out of necessity to be able to pull more than 1-2 cars, the boilers of these locos are filled solid with metal for weight, and rely on a tender drive. The small, low-sided tender is mostly filled with motor, but he crams a decoder in there, the very small ones from Zimo or CT Elektronik, with wires that are maybe 1/16" long. There's ALWAYS a way - it just, as I said, depends on how much time, skill, and money you want to spend. Although I didn't mean to infer that a complex installation is always expensive, at least in money. Say you need to file some of the frame, and don't have power tools. You can use a file and do it by hand, it just might take a while. No cost other than time. The more you file, the bigger (and cheaper) a decoder you can use, so like everything else, it's all a matter of tradeoffs. Me, I'm pretty cheap - if a standard HO size decoder fits, I use it. I see no need to spend as much as double to get a super micro decoder when the regular ones fit. I'll save the expensive special ones for where there really is no other choice.

                           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by TheK4Kid on Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:15 AM

 I am looking at doing the same thing with some of my DC  steam engines and two early diesels.All of my engines are fairly recent though.
I too am in HO scale.
I have two Proto 2000  2-8-8-2 steamers, several IHC mountain engines, several IHC enines of various steamers,one Rivarossi 2-8-8-2, and I have 5 BLI steamers already DCC with sound I bought brand new.
All in all I have about 25 steam engines.
My main theme is PRR since my Dad and Uncle both worked on the Pennsy when I was very young and my Uncle was an engineer and hauled a lot of war materials during World War Two.

I'd like to keep the costs down , as I was recently layed off from work after giong back to work from a disabling injury.
I don't need sound, just a basic decoder.
I've considered trying to find someone locally to do it that has some experience, and I don't need to convert all of them right away.
I'm still working on my layout, but any progress I can make is always  inspirational.
I live in the midwest just outside Ft Wayne,Indiana, so if anyone knows anyone who can offer me some advice locally.
There is a local MR club, but I'm not a member.
Happy MRRing to all!

TheK4Kid

aka---Ed

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Posted by Dweeb on Friday, April 3, 2009 10:58 AM

WhistlingA caution note: DCC is not everybodys preference. I found it to be extra trouble and expense, and no better operation the well thought out block wiring with walk around throttle.

How hard it will be for you to install depends on your skill level. Good luck.

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Posted by teen steam fan on Friday, April 3, 2009 8:04 PM

could you take it in to a dealer or hobby shop and have them do it?

I am also interested myself. I don't have the nessisary skills

If you can read this... thank a teacher. If you are reading this in english... thank a veteran

When in doubt. grab a hammer. 

If it moves and isn't supposed to, get a hammer

If it doesn't move and is supposed to, get a hammer

If it's broken, get a hammer

If it can't be fixed with a hammer... DUCK TAPE!

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