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Decoder install on BB Athearn loco

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  • Member since
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  • From: Miltonfreewater, Or
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Decoder install on BB Athearn loco
Posted by RRTrainman on Friday, February 27, 2009 1:46 AM

I'm just getting started with the change over to DCC.  I have a ton of BB Athearns loco's that will need decoders for.  Is this going to be a drawn out process to put in decoder in them and what would be the most reasonable sound type decoder for them.  These are modern type loco SD, GP, Dash 9 type.  These are 15+ year old loco pre-DCC era type.  And also can these loco's be used on DC type layout after they have been converted.  I need these questions answered be for I go with either new Loco's or converting the ones I have.  I would hate to scrap 20+ loco's or have them in the box collecting dust.

 

4x8 are fun too!!! RussellRail

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, February 27, 2009 6:51 AM

The most important question is:  How well do these engines run on DC?  If they stall or hesitate, DCC will only make them worse.  On the other hand, if these are good-running engines, then DCC will work just fine.

If you open these engines up, how much empty space is there inside?  The big issue with sound decoders isn't the decoder itself, it's the speaker.  Before sound came along, it was common practice among locomotive manufacturers to fill the shell with the metal frame to increase weight, and therefore traction and pulling power.  A typical rectangular speaker enclosure is about an inch and a half long, half an inch wide and maybe 3/8 deep.  On a flat layout, running small trains, you can probably get away with removing some of the weight to make room for the speaker.

I'm not sure if all decoders will run on DC or not.  Certainly, some of them do.  From experience, if you only plan to run these on your own layout, once you go over to DCC you're not going to want to go back.

Sound decoder choice is in the ear of the beholder.  I've got one of the low-cost "LC" Soundtraxx decoders, and I'm very happy with it.  I've also got QSI decoders, and one Loksound, which I like a lot more, but they're much more expensive.  I've got 2 units with Digitrax sound-only SFX decoders.  To use one of these, you need a motor decoder as well.  I find that these are too quiet for my taste, but they are programmable so I can use my own sounds, a nice feature for the trolleys which nobody makes sound for.

Since you run consists, you might think about installing sound in only one of the engines in each pair.  That will give you the effect you want at substantially lower cost.  Later on, you can slowly upgrade the rest of the fleet to sound, either by replacing the decoder or by adding a sound-only unit.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by mike_ruby on Friday, February 27, 2009 7:07 AM
I've convert several of these locos to DCC sound. My favourite method is to mount the decoder(s) on a length of stripboard along with lighting resistors and in some cases the LEDs. I then use double sided foam tape to stick it to the top of the body shell. One advantage with these locos is the amount of space in the top of the long hood. Things to do are isolate the motor from the pickups and chassis. Remove the long metal strip between the trucks. Remove the motor press the tangs from the bottom connector strip up, solder a wire to it and cover with insulating tape. If the motor mounts fall apart I've had success with hot gluing the motor back in. I solder wires to the trucks for pickup to the decoder (one to the upright strip and one to the plate just in front / behind the chassis bolster) this eliminates the worst contact points. I've used lenz decoders for power and Soundtraxx DSX for sound (I wanted BEMF and four light outputs), but you could use any other combinations or combined sound and power decoders. I use a small oval speaker in an enclosure mounted at the back of the long hood facing down over the rear truck. I think they sound better that those mounted in the fuel tanks. I find apart from some drive noise these locos run well on DCC. Mike Ruby (with several more BBs to go)
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Posted by RRTrainman on Friday, February 27, 2009 10:12 AM

My concerns is with my locos being able to run on DC too.  My old 4 x 8 layout the grand kids use is DC cab controlled and if they move one of these locos to it,  its not going to get fried.  Do these decoders know the differance and is it going to run on DC too. I know that my new Athreans do but with a old loco converted to DCC will it do the same thing.

4x8 are fun too!!! RussellRail

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, February 27, 2009 10:41 AM

RRTrainman
I have a ton of BB Athearns loco's that will need decoders for.  Is this going to be a drawn out process to put in decoder in them and what would be the most reasonable sound type decoder for them.

Decoders - no. Sound - possibly.   Decoders are fairly straight forward.  The hardest part is isolating the motor and then taping the power off the frame for input into the decoder.  Then if one would want to change the lighting it can vary based on the unit.  Sound on the other hand is a much bigger issue.  With sound one must deal with speaker placement which can be simple or complex.

And also can these loco's be used on DC type layout after they have been converted.

That would depend on which decoder is chosen for them.  Some decoders have "dual mode" or some such thing that allow them to be run on DC as well.   My guess is that once you experience DCC control this will become a moot point.

RRTrainman
My concerns is with my locos being able to run on DC too.  My old 4 x 8 layout the grand kids use is DC cab controlled and if they move one of these locos to it,  its not going to get fried.

That is not a significant issue.  A straight DCC locomotive can sit on a DC track without damaging it, it just won't be able do anything but sit.  An extreme case was that a friend of mine brought one of his DCC locos down and put it on our Railcommand system at the club.  Railcommand puts out a constant 15VDC to the track with another 2.5V command signal on top of that, so the loco sat there and took a full 17.5V for almost an hour before we notice.  There were no ill effects.

The reverse is not true.  A DC locomotive sitting on DCC tracks will buzz and hum and eventually fry the motor. 

 

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Posted by cudaken on Friday, February 27, 2009 11:32 PM

 I am going to guess your name is Russell, am I right? First, I would not add sound decoders to every engine. Sometimes there sound just becomes racket and I either turn off the sound or run a none sound DCC engine. Watching a silent train glide by is very soothing.

 If you like to up grade some engines with out sound, look at the Digitrax DH123AP decoder. It is all most a solder less install and comes with new Athearn Motor Mounts. My LHS sells them for $20.95 and work at 1.5 amps with a peak of 2.0 amps. Stock headlights will work, but I am going LED with mine.

 They will all so work on DC, I use DC power to clean the wheels.

            Cuda Ken 

 

I hate Rust

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Posted by jasperofzeal on Saturday, February 28, 2009 4:13 AM

RRTrainman,

As someone stated earlier, if your locos don't run too well on DC they won't run any better on DCC.  I don't know about your maintenance routine but here is a very thorough Athearn tune-up that you can follow.

 

cudaken
...If you like to up grade some engines with out sound, look at the Digitrax DH123AP decoder. It is all most a solder less install and comes with new Athearn Motor Mounts. My LHS sells them for $20.95...

I also agree with Ken in maybe not installing sound decoders in all your locos.  The decoder he suggested, DH123AT (BTW, this place has them for a dollar less Wink) is a pretty good choice.  There is also a  6-function decoder with the solder-less harness, DH163AT, it costs a few bucks more.  If you don't mind soldering then your decoder options are almost limitless and somewhat less pricey.

TONY

"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)

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Posted by RRTrainman on Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:18 AM

Not all my unit that are BB Athearns are powered about 1/3 are nonpowered.  So Dightraks is the way to go.  MRC blew it for me lucky for me, my LHS will trade for these other ones. 

Hey Ken when are you going to get some photos of you layout Love to see this new expanction.Big Smile

4x8 are fun too!!! RussellRail

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Posted by cudaken on Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:17 PM

 Jasper, great link on the Athearn up grades. I have know about the tooth paste trick from my slot car days. Some of the troubles he listed I am having with some of my newer RTR's. SD 40-2 will be getting apart pretty soon.

 Is your name Russell, RRTainman? Far as the new section, it is sort of at a stand still. With the down turn in the economy I may be getting rid of my current house so all the bench will go.That is one of the things about moving I am looking forward to! If I get the condo I will lose about 200 sq foot of living spaces and the Hated In Ground Pool and Yard Work! Condo will still hold a 19 X 19 bench and will have no yard work! Plus I will save about $500.00 a month. That is a Steam engine added a month and about 12 more free hours as well so life could be much better. 

 If I find the time, I will post a few new PIC in weekend photo fun.

 By the way, how about some pictures of your bench? Looks a little bigger that a 4 X 8 with the UP engines getting sand, or was that oil?

               Cuda Ken

I hate Rust

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Posted by RRTrainman on Sunday, March 1, 2009 9:53 AM

This is my 4' x 8' layout.

And this is 2.5' x 12' yard.

Got the bridge track set between the two last weekend.  So now it one unit instead of two modules now.  You can call my Tom my last name is Russell, Ken's your is it not.

4x8 are fun too!!! RussellRail

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Posted by mikebo on Sunday, March 1, 2009 6:22 PM

I have converted about a dozen Athearn Blue Box locos to DCC. I my opinion the issue is how well they run and how much current they draw running in DC. If they run smooth and quiet ( for an Athearn BB)  and they draw less than an amp at stall in DC, I would install a decoder without remotoring. If they draw more than an amp I'd remotor the loco. I use a TCS T1 decoder for BB locos, the T1 is small and has very good motor control features to get a slightly balky engine to run smoothly. I wouldn't spend the money trying to put sound in one unless it was a very dear loco that I'd remotored. 

 

Mike Modeling Maryland Railroads in the 60's (plus or minus a few years)
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Posted by cudaken on Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:54 PM

 Tom, my name is Cuda, Mon and Dad did not like me!Big Smile Just kidding it is Ken. Far as your yard, just shows how much track a 2.5 section will hold. I plain on the next bench to have a run through yard with 2 mains going in and out about the same sizes as yours.

 Ken

I hate Rust

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Posted by RRTrainman on Sunday, March 1, 2009 11:34 PM

cudaken

 Tom, my name is Cuda, Mon and Dad did not like me!Big Smile Just kidding it is Ken. Far as your yard, just shows how much track a 2.5 section will hold. I plain on the next bench to have a run through yard with 2 mains going in and out about the same sizes as yours.

 Ken

I could of made the classification yard area larger but I want a industry on the other end from my shop and I thought that a refinery would do the trick and it did. Got tons of pict's at my home page well Photobucket.  Cuda aint bad Dodge or was it Plymoth (can't spell tonite) pick it can't remember the 60's I was 10

4x8 are fun too!!! RussellRail

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