I am starting this post to try to answer a question that keeps popping up to me when I read this and other model railroad forums. Namely:
What do Digitrax and NCE owners have against the MRC Prodigy DCC systems?
These folks always seem to be slamming the MRC systems. And 99% of the time if you read a further down in the postings you discover that the person doing the slamming really didn't know what they were talking about. Now I'm not saying that MRC doesn't have any problems with it's systems. Of course they do, so does Digitrax, NCE and all the others. I'm also not saying that all Digitrax and NCE owners slam MRC but you gotta admit, it's pretty rare you see one of them say anything good about them.
I own an MRC Prodigy Advanced 2 for my layout and have an Express system at my workbench. I love them, they work great, are extremely user friendly, and are very reasonably priced. Does this mean I think that the other brands are not as good? Of course not. It comes down to personal preference. All major brand systems are solid and reliable, including MRC.
Basically what I'm trying to get across is, if you don't have experience with something don't slam it because you own something else, paid more for something else, or heard of one problem with a brand. These forums are for spreading our knowledge with each other, not our biases. Having an opinion is great, we all have them and should, But if it is just an opinion let everyone know that, don't make it sound like your opinion is a documented fact. Doing so may be misleading someone who does not have as much knowledge as you about the subject. And that is not fair to them.
The above is just my humble opinion. Long live model railroading!
I would have to agree. I know very little about MRC, the system, other than what others have said, and I have never used one, I use NCE. But I can't say much of anything nice about the MRC decoders and no longer have any in service, or in the drawer, or on the layout. The last left with the trash people a few months ago.
Bob
Yes I do agree with you fellows about the decoders. They do leave something to be desired don't they? All my locos now have Digitrax decoders. I have had great luck with them. I didn't throw the MRC ones out though. They work good for other things on the layout. I have one running my turntable in the yard.
MRC has a serious PR problem in the DCC community. There are several reasons. Here are what I perceive them to be.
1. MRC decoders are universally reviled by virtually everyone that has ever used one. The failure rate of these devices is far above other brands. For many, the performance of the decoders is enough to put them off MRC altogether. It is entirely possible that the latest decoders are better, but not many folks that have been burned the first time are going to try them to find out.
2. MRC have made at least 3 attempts at getting into the DCC market. Previous efforts were not successful. As new systems were introduced anyone that purchased the older systems were left behind as there was no backwards compatibility. These users were stranded with unsupported devices that had no upgrade path other than total replacement. This did not help the MRC image. I for one would be very wary of buying a current generation model for fear that I would be stranded with no upgrade path in the future.
3. The cost of entry level MRC systems is relatively low. The cost of adding peripheral devices and expansion modules is very high. Look at the PC interface for example. Not only is it double or more than the price of other manufacturers, it has been developed with its own software and can not be used by the very popular and free Decoder Pro application. In my view this makes an MRC system fine, just so long as you never want to expand. The likelihood that the MRC software gets dropped and is not developed is potentially very high based on past record in DCC.
4. Finally, there is the laughable MRC advertising that suggests that they are the leader in DCC. I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone that actually took that seriously.
Having used a Prodigy Advance 2, I would agree that the device is very easy to use and performs well. In my personal assessment it is the simplest system to use on the market. Under no circumstances would I purchase one of the systems because I have no confidence that MRC will stand behind the unit and support it into the future. It also does not offer me the type of expansion path that I want.
So in a nut shell, MRC's past is what haunts the company today and results in a lot of negative opinions that are expressed.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I have nothing against the MRC Prodigy. I was even thinking about buying one before I settled on a Digitrax system. I do however have a lot of bad feelings for their decoders and won't use one even if somebody gave it to me. I've had two of them and they both went up in smoke inside of a day. That's not a good record. I have locos that have the cheap Bachmann decoders in them that have been running for years.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I certainly cannot say what motivates individuals to say what they say, but it does seem that the bad rap on MRC decoders MAY add to some folks generic anti-MRC comments. However, in a few obvious cases, there may actually be a sort of vendeta designed to trash MRC because of real or perceived shabby treatment by MRC representatives.
I have a good friend and best model railroading buddy who carries a huge chip on his shoulder about certain resturants, products, etc. If he has been slighted, or thinks he has, he'll never be a customer again. If he thinks he has the absoulete answer on an issue, and someone disagrees, he'll write them off in the blink of an eye. However, I don't think he goes to the extreme of trashing them at every chance once the issue is settled.
Although it may seem counter-intuitive, the anti-MRC 'advice' on this forum is actually moving me toward using their products, including a new DCC system, just to see if all the negatives prove true. If I do so, I won't hesitate to post complaints. If customer service dismisses my issues, they'll be exposed. Nevertheless, if all goes well, I'll be the anti-anti-MRC voice everytime a non-specific bash is posted.
For what it is worth, I've used MRC decoder equipped locos (maybe 7) for almost ten years with absolutely no problem. Yes, my system is very fundamental (MRC Command 2000) and when I move up the limitations will surface, but so far they have served well.
simon1966MRC has a serious PR problem in the DCC community. There are several reasons. Here are what I perceive them to be.<snip an excellent summary>So in a nut shell, MRC's past is what haunts the company today and results in a lot of negative opinions that are expressed.
Very well stated, Simon!
If you don't mind, I'd like to add a number 5:
5. Their apparent arrogance towards established DCC preferences and conventions: You don't need CV readback. You do need wireless throttles if you want a (proprietary, no less!) computer interface.
It would be different if their break from those preferences and conventions added some value to their product line. But they took away an ability (CV readback) that is widely used and recognized as invaluable (After all, what's usually noted as the main drawback of the Digitrax Super Empire Builder (DB150) set?), and sniffed at literally the thousands of DCC users who rely on it. And they bundled, at a significant expense I might add, two completely unrelated options. C'mon, MRC, why should I have to buy wireless just to use a computer? And why can't I choose which computer software best meets my needs?
The marketplace apparently spoke on the first issue, since their non-readback decoders have for the most part, if not completely, been discontinued. And I suspect a similar fate will eventually befall their proprietary, "wireless required" computer interface.
Steve
By-the-way, I have absolutely no axe to grind with respect to MRC at all. I own MRC DC throttles and loved them. I own an MRC sound decoder that has so far served me well. I am simply stating my opinions based on my observation of the market. I have been in sales and marketing in various capacities my whole career, some 25 years, and always find it fascinating how companies with an incredible name and reputation (would anyone disagree that MRC in DC is/was the leader in the market?), handle significant shifts in a market. The introduction of DCC was such a shift, and I don't think MRC has navigated this at all well, to the significant detriment to their reputation.
mreagantYes, my system is very fundamental (MRC Command 2000) and when I move up the limitations will surface, but so far they have served well.
This is a perfect example of what I meant. Moving up, means scrapping the Command 2000. You can not upgrade your system with new MRC components and continue to use the system that you invested in originally. You have no upgrade path now except replacement. Would MRC even fix the unit if it broke down today? By contrast, if 10 years ago you had purchased a Digitrax system, you could purchase brand new components to upgrade your system and continue to utilize the bits you purchased all that time ago. The same applies to MRC's replacement to the Command 2000, the first generation Prodigy, it is not even compatible with current generation product that share the same name.
For some folks, this is not an issue at all. However, I do beleive that this is a significant issue that has impacted the reputation of the company in the market place.
You know, before I get too involved in this discussion, I'd like to see some proof of this supposed slamming of MRC Prodigy systems by Digitrax and NCE users.
To my knowledge, there is little to no slamming of MRC Prodigy systems. There's plenty of slamming of MRC decoders and even of MRC itself for making these decoders and even for lying about them. But I don't recall any actual slamming of anything Prodigy.
The worst thing we do is ignore it. And that's hardly "slamming" it. AFAIK, the PA and the PA2 are fine systems. I know very little about it as I don't know anyone who uses them (except online...I've met a few that way but it rarely comes up on these forums).
JDVass,Please use the search function and dig up all the Prodigy slamming quotes by NCE and Digitrax users. I don't think you're going to find too many...if any. Or perhaps your idea of slamming is different than mine? (shrug)
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Simon has layed out many of what I believe to be MRC's poor marketing choices over the years. Quite frankly, when I started with DCC in 1996, MRC didn't have a horse in the race. They have been playing catch up ever since. Their decoders at the time were expensive and had the least features of all the decoders on the market.
MRC seems to have taken the KISS form of design and marketing. Their present systems are remarkably easy to set up and operate but they stick with proprietary designs even to the point of secrecy. For instance, I can hook up just about any manufacturer's booster including MRC 8amp to a Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, or CVP command station. Home built boosters can also be easily connected. In all cases it's two or three wires to make them play happily together. All a booster does is "boost" a low current signal from the command station. Try to hook up any other than an MRC booster to their command stations and your guess is as good as mine as to which two wires are the signal. Their plug has eight wires which is at least 5 more than needed. It could be reverse engineered but so far no one seems to have taken that initiative.
This type of proprietary design means that you have to purchase an MRC booster to add power to your layout. Simple "plug and play" makes it good for MRC's bottom line and certainly simple to connect. Bad because they ignore the scores of possible customers for add-on boosters that could work with another system. Posts have already been made concerning their computer interface. Again, its good for their bottom line because you have to pay them (and only them) to play.
Martin Myers
Well, I do think that the Prodigy systems did get some bad press here in the past, though I have not seed it so much lately. I'm sure that was due to assumptions based on other MRC DCC products which has now abated as Prodigy Advance et al has proven itself over the past 4 years. I bought the original PA and later the wireless upgrade and I love it. I use all Digitrax decoders and the combination is great. I prefer the PA throttle to any I have used and ease of use is second to none.
Ron
Owner and superintendant of the N scale Texas Colorado & Western Railway, a protolanced representaion of the BNSF from Fort Worth, TX through Wichita Falls TX and into Colorado.
Check out the TC&WRy on at https://www.facebook.com/TCWRy
Check out my MRR How-To YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/c/RonsTrainsNThings
I use the NCE system so have no experience of the MRC control system.
I have however used the sound decoders which I discovered before I encountered the "bad press" and have them in my n gauge GP40s, AC4400s, SD40s and a P42. So far I have had no trouble (18 months) whatsoever whereas I have had digitrax chips seemingly "reprogram" themselves and fail to respond on other occasions for no obvious reason (one of my reasons for changing to mrc). My only gripe has been with the chips in the AC4400s which are a bit quiet and the horn is even quieter still. However I added a second speaker which made a big difference. OK the sound is not as good as HO (but then neither is the detail on the rolling stock in n gauge if we want to get pedantic) but I have found a lot of the issues about distortion can be resolved by appropriate programming of volume and not running them at full blast. My preference for performance in OO has been TCS, particularly for my steam locos and I have some hardwired into my non-decoder ready n gauge locos but I now have the problem that if the loco has no sound in it, it stays on shed as my sons won't use it unless is gets lumped into a consist with the sound equipped ones (and I know there are issues with some prime mover sounds but a mashima 12v motor is not prototypical either!) I have heard rumours that other companies are thinking about n gauge sound but so far noone seems to have had the nerve to dip their toe in the water. So until then, my locos keep rolling with mrc under NCE control - no choice or contest at present. Maybe I have been lucky so far...(my F40s are about to receive the treatment too).
I do agree though that the mrc PR is hilarious and struggle to see how it does not fall foul of some sort of advertising standard. It was the adverts rather than anything I heard that nearly put me off trying my first sound chip!
I just bought my first dcc system and it is an mrc prodigy express system. It works great with no problems. very easy to use. I use digitrax dh123 decoders and could not be happier with these products. I just don't get the mrc bashing either. Just my two cents.
bigpoppaI just bought my first dcc system and it is an mrc prodigy express system. It works great with no problems. very easy to use. I use digitrax dh123 decoders and could not be happier with these products. I just don't get the mrc bashing either. Just my two cents.
bigpoppaI just don't get the mrc bashing either. Just my two cents.
Read what was written earlier in the thread. Not much to complain about the current systems, they are easy to use, there is no doubt. It is the strong point of the system. They are ideal for anyone that does not have any significant expansion plans. In the future, if you plan to expand, the cost of peripherals is high and things like PC interface lack commonly expected performance. Based on MRC prior track record, you may or may not be able to expand your system with compatible components. Further more, it is very clear that the decoder performance has had a serious impact on the reputation of the company. So in a nut shell, there is the reason for perceived MRC bashing.
Don't feel bad. I got slamed by by both when I bought mine, and its a Bachmann EZ Command. I find it easy to operate now that I got it up and running. I just wanted a simple system to learn on After giving up on my Diehard DC cab controlled that I've ran for 20+ years. MRC dose have its problems and the biggest thing is there decoders. I bought 5 of them 2 burned up in a day. Like for me my LHS is good friends with and I got some other brand for replacements. I'm just starting with the DCC system not to long ago I'm getting my feet wet.
4x8 are fun too!!! RussellRail
mreagantI certainly cannot say what motivates individuals to say what they say, but it does seem that the bad rap on MRC decoders MAY add to some folks generic anti-MRC comments.
I think you are absolutely right. I've used a Prodigy and had no problems. I chose the NCE powercab soley for ergonomic reasons. I also looked at the MRC Prodigy and the Zephyr systems but did not like them for different reasons. The zephyr only offered a table top controller, not walkaround, and I didn't like the fact that I had to use two hands on the MRC Prodigy controller to activate the horn or lights. The rotary knob is located at the bottom of the controller and the horn and lights are somewhere near the top. No big deal, but it didn't suit me.
We have a particular rule up here in banking that states that one cannot tie a customer to a product that only they sell. MRC has what could be called a coerced or tied product. You must buy X if you want Y. Their so called computer interface is only useful with their software. Sound familiar? How about the Blu-ray vs. HD? Or VHS vs Beta? Open Platform vs Closed Platform----now MRC done it again with their system vs JMRI---All I ask is why?
Their decoders, again, I know one fellow who recently bought 10--after I warned him of the QC issue that DB keeps on about. All but 2 of them died only 2 days after he installed them. FFFFTTTT.
Wonder why there are people bashing MRC? Shouldn't experience count for something?
Don't get me started on their ads. One could argue that they are in fact misrepresenting the truth of the matter when they claim they are the best----Marking Behaviour? A bit of---Chest Beating?
Their controllers are not the issue---but a lot of issues surround the rest of MRC
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
My first experience with MRC decoders was around 1995 when they first ventured into the DCC market. They offered a special price on a 5-pack of their new decoders plus an F7 locomotive with a decoder already installed. No other club members had a DCC decoder and we were still running our club layout on DC block control.
The locomotive turned out to be a Walthers Trainline engine with an MRC decoder. When we installed our DCC system, I couldn't get the locomotive to run. After a lot of troubleshooting, fearing that something was wrong with my wiring or the DCC command station, I decided that it had to be a bad decoder in the loco. So I opened it up and replaced the decoder with one of the 5 spares. It was also bad. Same result with 3 more of the spares. Out of 6 decoders, only one was good but it went up in smoke within 20 minutes. I swore off any and all MRC DCC products after that.
Many years later another club member began buying MRC decoders "because they're cheap!" I warned him many times that he was just throwing his money away and should buy a different brand of decoder, but he wouldn't listen. In all, I think he went through nearly 20 MRC decoders over a two or three year period and not a single one of them lasted more than a couple of hours of run time before releasing their magic smoke. And MRC offered no warranty.
A couple of months ago, I decided that I'd give MRC the benefit of the doubt and try another one of their decoders, so I bought a Diesel Sounder. It was dead on arrival. I contacted MRC and they agreed to waive their normal "service charge" of something like $15, and repaired it for free. I will probably never install it because it sounds so horrible, even with a better quality speaker and enclosure. After about two minutes of operation connected to the track with jumper wires, it gets so hot that it begins to smell like melted plastic and can't be touched with a bare hand.
That's my experience with MRC decoders. Their DC power packs are the most reliable on the market, and I've never heard anything bad about their Prodigy systems, but their decoders are the most horrible product ever foisted upon the model railroading public.
Cacole,check out the huge spread on the back of April/MRR !
cacole That's my experience with MRC decoders. Their DC power packs are the most reliable on the market, and I've never heard anything bad about their Prodigy systems, but their decoders are the most horrible product ever foisted upon the model railroading public.
I agree with that! I got my MRC trottles dreached by a water leak in my basement in a previce home, the trottles survived but the layout was destroyed.
What I can't understand is how MRC can let this decoder quality issue go on. Aren't their people plugged into forums like this? Don't they get any feedback from the LHS's and distributors? They have to be getting some adverse feedback from disappointed customers; do they ignore this? They must have some kind of quality assurance procedure. Don't they encounter the same failure rates when they test? You don't have to be a marketing genius to know word gets around and if the word is bad it's going to show up negatively on your bottom line. Like others here I am using A Prodigy (Advance) and have no reservations about its user friendliness and it does seem to be quite robust. However, I really can't afford to fry decoders and when I got the bad word on MRC decoders I looked elsewhere for decoders. Every time I'm tempted by some of MRC's easy to install(in a specific loco) sound decoders I keep backing away because of negative word of mouth. I do hope for the good of the hobby they address the issues raised here; the more manufacturers of quality decoders and DCC systems the better it is for the consumer.
Jon
I really like your post. It brings up some very good points about whether a person is getting real information to make an intelligent decision or if they are just getting an opinion. We should all remember that opinions are like arm pits. Everyone has at least two and one of them is liable to stink. I am hoping that the MRC decoders are good, I just ordered two of their 1820 drop ins this afternoon. I am running a powerhouse pro with the latest firmware and I converted the control station to wireless a couple of years ago. I have a couple of NCE decoders installed and also have 4 soundtraxx decoders installed also. Hope that everyone understands that all I am saying is that sometimes I have enough to buy a $5.00 freight car and at othertimes I have enough money for a very expensive freight car. But when it comes time to run the train I get the same amount of fun from both cars, Lets not get sidetracked about why we like this hobby.
Cause the digitrax are in stock at my train store and are $20.00. I don,t get your sarcasm. You do not need to be rude when someone posts a comment. Thanks.
I have read all to post and of course agree with half. First what what I have heard the decoders are/were bad. As for asservice they maybe pretty good. I hade a plain Prodigy that was bad and emailed mrc to ask about repair and was told at the time was around $30 but was an old system and could trade it in. It would cos t under $200 (way under) for a Prodigy Advance Squard , I thoght pretty good
gjvjr50I hade a plain Prodigy that was bad and emailed mrc to ask about repair and was told at the time was around $30 but was an old system and could trade it in.
Indeed, the Prodigy was MRC's second effort to develop a DCC system. Like the Command 2000 it was a dead end product, dropped from production and required total replacement to expand. At least they were offering a trade in. This is my single biggest concern with MRC's DCC systems. If you purchase a current generation MRC DCC system, you have no reason to be confident that it will have future support. Again, I am not criticising the system itself, as I have stated before I consider it to be a decent, easy to use device, I just have a real problem with a company that keeps releasing new systems that are not compatible with each other.
Hi!
I am a Digitrax owner, but NCE was a very close second choice. During my recent search for "which way to go" concerning DCC, I wondered why MRC was not one of the leaders or leader in the DCC market. My reasoning is that for decades, MRC was the clear leader of DC power supplies. I had two MRC Controlmaster 20s on my recently demo'd layout and frankly they made the decision to go to DCC much more difficult.
I am certainly not qualified to bash anybody's DCC offerings (and would not do so anyway). However, I do believe that MRC could have been THE major player in the DCC arena if it got into it earlier and with more resources. Just my opinion.......
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
It appears that the biggest problem with MRC comes down to--
A) their history vis a vis DCC--you'd think that they would look for a better way to manage their product QC. But here they are --4th, or is it 3rd, time in and still they have issues with QC--note that there is no real issue with their controllers in that sense but they fall flat on their faces when it comes to the decoders-
B)Advertising in such a way that they come across as braggerts--look at me--chest beating. I wonder with full page ads that do nothing but brag. The reality is that they spend oodles of money on Public Relations/Advertising and Customer Service when they need more Quality Control from the top?
And of course my favourite issue--why do they insist on a self enclosed system when everyone else goes open framework? And yes, I know about the profit margin end of things. Again--look at what happened to Beta and HD and this now--MRC vs JMRI?
It kind of makes me wonder if Dilberts boss is the owner of MRC--