I'm looking towards getting the zephyr set with possibly en extra handheld... If I get the tethered remote, when I unplug to move to another port elsewhere on layout, what happens to the train? Stop or continue moving? Should I just go straight to wireless right away??
My layout is 20' wide X 10' down each end.... In a U shape. I want to split the power up into either 2 or 3 seperate power blocks to avoid shorts over entire layout. What other accessories would I need to purchase to accomplish this? I'll also have a rev. loop, possibly a wye and maybe a turntable.... Do I need to get an auto reverser? or does this system include that??
Anyone that has had experiences with digitrax please feel free to weight in here... Advise welcome. Thanks in advance.
Mike
MPRRI'm looking towards getting the zephyr set with possibly en extra handheld... If I get the tethered remote, when I unplug to move to another port elsewhere on layout, what happens to the train? Stop or continue moving? Should I just go straight to wireless right away??
Mike,
If you unplug your extra throttle - i.e. the one you are using to operate your train - your train will continue to operate as if you were plugged in. You just can't change any settings until you are plugged in again.
As far as going wireless right off the bat, that's entirely up to you. Personally, I'd get the Zephyr first then learn the ropes about DCC and setting up power districts, etc.. After you've had a chance to see where you're at with your new system, I'd THEN start looking at wireless. And I have known individuals who have gone wireless from the get-go and have done just fine.
One reason to wait is that Digitrax should be coming out with their duplex wireless DCC system in the near future. (Or, at least, that's the plan.) Even if you went with the Zephyr now, you'd still should be able to incorporate it into a wireless system as a booster. Digitrax has done a very good job in this respect with their upgrading path.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstageEven if you went with the Zephyr now, you'd still should be able to incorporate it into a wireless system as a booster.
tstageOne reason to wait is that Digitrax should be coming out with their duplex wireless DCC system in the near future. (Or, at least, that's the plan.) Even if you went with the Zephyr now, you'd still should be able to incorporate it into a wireless system as a booster. Digitrax has done a very good job in this respect with their upgrading path.Tom
Small correction: the wireless system is completely independent of the command station/booster. you do not need to get a booster to add the wireless. The current simplex system require a radio throttle (DT-400R or UT-4R or the older DT-series radio throttles) and a UR-91. The new duplex system I believe will be using something similar to this. The UR-91/2 I believe (the new duplex radio fascia panel) is the base station and can be connected to the zephyr via loconet. no extra booster required. A wall wart is necessary to power these panels
As far as power management goes I have installed several PM-42 circuit breakers at the club I belong to break down the layout in many different districts. They have 4 circuit breakers/auto reverser circuits. it can be setup so that it can be a breaker and auto reverse but it takes two channels to do that. I would suggest using the PM-42 to create 4 seperate power blocks and then something like the AR-1 to do your autoreversing. I have only dealt with the digitrax power breakers and auto reversers but there are several companies that produce such products (DCC specialties) My only complaint about the PM-42 is that it has an edge connector that needs to be wired up which can be a pain.
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/
This was my plan in the past and it's my plan again as I start all over having to buy new stuff. I started with a Zephyr, added a DT400. Now I have the Zephyr again. Even with just the Zephyr you can run up to 10 locos at teh same time - only one of them will be under control, and this assumes your 10 locos don;t use more than 2.5 amps - I've run up to 8 HO locos, some of those were sound units, with my Zephyr. Adding an extra throttle, the UT4 controls one loco at a time, and you can unplug it and move to a different location and plug back in again, and the train continues on at the last speed and direction - it will do this perpetually if you never plug the throttle back in, until you turn off the power, it derails, or you take control with another throttle. The DT400 has two throttles in one, you can have two locos under control at the same time (plus one on the Zephyr console - and if you have any old DC power packs you can hook two up to the 'jump' ports on the Zephyr and control two more).
If you build a much bigger layout, you will never have to get rid of the Zephyr, you can add on additional boosters, or upgrade to the Super Chief and use the Zephyr as a booster and throttle. Never a throw-away component in the Digitrax system, except one bit they made back in the early days of DCC to adapt their first non-Loconet sets to Loconet.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
MPRR I'm looking towards getting the zephyr set with possibly en extra handheld... If I get the tethered remote, when I unplug to move to another port elsewhere on layout, what happens to the train? Stop or continue moving? Should I just go straight to wireless right away??
Mike, as Tom correctly noted, with a tethered throttle your train will continue until you plug back in and change something (eg, adjust the speed). The wireless question you will have to answer yourself.
MPRR My layout is 20' wide X 10' down each end.... In a U shape. I want to split the power up into either 2 or 3 seperate power blocks to avoid shorts over entire layout. What other accessories would I need to purchase to accomplish this? I'll also have a rev. loop, possibly a wye and maybe a turntable.... Do I need to get an auto reverser? or does this system include that??
To divide your layout into power districts you could use the Digitrax PM42 or just about any of the other power-manager devices on the market. Same goes for the reversing sections - you can use a PM42 section for that (it has four) since each section can be independently configured as either a power-manager section or as an auto-reversing section. Or you can use someone else's auto-reverse unit. Your choice.
MPRR Anyone that has had experiences with digitrax please feel free to weight in here... Advise welcome. Thanks in advance. Mike
One thing that nobody mentioned is that the base Digitrax throttles come with wireless infrared already built in. All you need to us it is a UR90 (street price about $35). How well it works depends on room lighting, obstructions, etc. Some folks like it, some don't. But it's not a huge outlay if you get one and decide to go radio later (the base Digitrax throttles can be upgraded to radio for the price difference).
Also a good catch by the other posters that radio is an upgrade/add-on, and not a replacement for your Zephyr. That's one of the great things about Digitrax: New or additional technology usually just plugs into the LocoNet. It's been a really long time since anything has been made completely obsolete by a lack of backwards compatability (some old, pre-LocoNet throttles from long, long ago are the only things I can think of...)
HTH, Steve
Another thing not mentioned is that both the current UT4 and DT400 throttles will be upgradeable to the new throttles.
It's my understanding that there will be several versions and not all will be duplex radio. Some will be tethered throttles. All will have functions to F28. At least that's what I heard from a very reliable source.
CSX RobertYou may not have meant this, but to me this makes it sound like if he went with the Zephyr and decided to go wireless later that he would have to buy a whole new system and could only use the Zephyr as a booster. Just to be clear, he would only have to add the receiver and throttle to go wireless(with either the current radio or the new duplex radio) and can continue to use the Zephyr as the command station.
Renegade1c Small correction: the wireless system is completely independent of the command station/booster. you do not need to get a booster to add the wireless. The current simplex system require a radio throttle (DT-400R or UT-4R or the older DT-series radio throttles) and a UR-91. The new duplex system I believe will be using something similar to this. The UR-91/2 I believe (the new duplex radio fascia panel) is the base station and can be connected to the zephyr via loconet. no extra booster required. A wall wart is necessary to power these panels
Thanks for the correction, Robert & Renegade. I didn't realize that wireless could just be added to the Zephyr separately. That's pretty cool.
tstageI didn't realize that wireless could just be added to the Zephyr separately. That's pretty cool.Tom
Tom,
Not just wireless, but two kinds of wireless: Infrared and radio, or both. And not just to the Zephyr, but to any Digitrax system that uses LocoNet (and you'd really have to look to find an antique Digitrax system that doesn't).
As I mentioned in my previous post, infrared is included with all current Digitrax throttles, and has been for some time. All you need to do is plug a UR90 infrared receiver into your LocoNet.
Same with adding radio - Just plug in the UR91. And according to the beta testers who have used it, the new duplex radio receiver will also be a simple plug-in addition.
Also, no fiddling with cab addresses or cutting jumpers or turning on "radio fixes" or any other nonsense. You just plug in the UR9x and it works...
Steve
If you go with an auto-reverser, get the Digitrax one. It has a simple screwdriver/knob that you can use to set the sensitivity of the reverser, so it works right. (It's kinda hard to explain, but you have to adjust the sensitivity so it only reverses when it's supposed to.)
I would second getting the Zephyr first and work with that for a while. You can add the walkaround later.
If you decide to go with a plug-in walkaround, I would get the radio version of it even if you don't plan to add radio right away. Unfortunately I bought my UT-4 to use with my Zephyr just before the UT-4R (radio equipped) unit came out. But you can send a standard Digitrax handheld throttle back to Digitrax and they'll upgrade it to radio for $50; I might end up doing that. Anyway, once you have the radio handheld throttle, you just need to add a UR-91 receiver down the road and you're all set.
When you say power blocks, do you mean separately powered (each with their own booster) blocks, or just setting up several blocks like you would in DC?? Unless you're running many engines at once (and / or a lot of sound units) you might find you have enough power in the Zephyr to run the whole thing by itself. You can divide the layout into blocks to help isolate shorts etc. just using toggle switches or something similar (Atlas Controllers) like you would in DC, you just don't need to do a lot of blocks. You might want to consider doing blocks where you might later add detection circuits for signalling.
Renegade1c tstage As far as power management goes I have installed several PM-42 circuit breakers at the club I belong to break down the layout in many different districts. They have 4 circuit breakers/auto reverser circuits. it can be setup so that it can be a breaker and auto reverse but it takes two channels to do that. I would suggest using the PM-42 to create 4 seperate power blocks and then something like the AR-1 to do your autoreversing. I have only dealt with the digitrax power breakers and auto reversers but there are several companies that produce such products (DCC specialties) My only complaint about the PM-42 is that it has an edge connector that needs to be wired up which can be a pain.
tstage
Awesome info and great responses guys!!! Ok, so let me see if I can get this all straight...
--Start with a zephyr (which I wanted)
--Get a PM42 and split it up into 3 power districts and one TT
--AR1 for rev loop
--additional throttle (Radio version eventually)
--Extra plug in panels for throttles
--Radio rec.
Do I need an addition booster? And how would I incorporate it into overall power mgt? Say I want a few turnouts controlled by my controller.. How many decoders will I need? Or better yet, how many turnouts per stationary decoder? Thanks for your help! You guys are making my decision with digitrax feel right for me.
Additional boosters are only needed if you have voltage drop over long distances or if you need additional amperage because of the number of locos being run (or the number of sound engines sitting on the track). The only other reason w/ Digitrax is if you want to run more address slots (the Zephyr-DCS50 runs 10, the Empire Builder-DB150 runs 22, and the Chief-DCS100 runs 120).
I don't think you have to worry about voltage drop, provided you go with at least 14AWG wire for the main bus. Your layout is only 10' x 20' you said. Mine is 25' x 50', and I only have the Zephyr mounted near one end of my 200' 14AWG bus.
Amperage may be an issue, but usually only with regards to sound locos. Normal "modern" locos only pull a quarter amp at peak, and usually run at 1/10th. Old Athearns (gray motor from the 1970's and earlier) and other old models would pull close to 1 amp peak and run at 1/2 amp normally. And unless the lights are on, they pull no amps when standing still.
Sound locos, OTOH, pull power whenever they are powered up. See, they all have capacitors to keep the sound going over dirty spots in the track, and they all try to charge at once when power is applied. This means that when you have a number of sound locos on the layout (like close to a dozen), the load on the system to charge these caps results in an overload and the circuit breaker pops. It will continue to reset over and over until the load is lessened. It's not a big deal, but it's something to keep in mind.
If you bought an additional booster, you would need to fully isolate a section eletrically of your layout. Then you set up the booster to run one section, and the Zephyr to run the other. It's like they are two seperate layouts, electrically. The only thing that joins the two is the LocoNet bus and a ground wire. Connect the two with a 6-conductor phone cable (with one end flipped...it's in the manual) and then ground them together (need to maintain polarity). At this point, you have to choose which is going to be your "brain" or command station, and which is going to be the booster. The Z is 2.5 amps, the DB150 is 5 amps, and the DB200 is 8 amps. Wire it so the DB is powering the lion's share of the layout (after all, it's at least twice the amperage). Now you have to pick... Do you want the 22 slots of addresses that come with the DB? Or do you want the read-back capability of the Z? Each system has the ability to be a booster only instead of a command station. Follow the manual to set the one you want.
As for how to wire it...I'd say that you leave the Z as a stand-alone and rely on it's internal circuit breaker for that area it powers. Use the PM42 to break up the DB's area into sections.
As for turnouts, what kind of switch motors are you using? If you're using solenoid types, you have to use the more expensive DS64 (if you want to keep things Digitrax) or the DS52. If you're using Tortoise machines, then you can use the DS44. The DS64 is $60 MSRP for four switches ($15 per switch), the DS44 for four switches is $40 MSRP ($10 per switch), and the DS52 is $25 MSRP for two switches ($12.50 per switch). If you are throwing crossovers, then that only counts as one switch, BTW.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
It depends on what stationary decoder you are using. WHich in part depends on what kind of turnout motors you use.
If you use Tortosies, probably the least expensive option is the NCE Switch-8, it controls 8 Tortoises and you cna commonly find it for $48 or less - less than $6 per turnout. However it's strictly DCC controlled, there is no option to also have buttons. The NCE Switch-It controls 2 Tortoises but also has connections for pushbuttons for control.
For twin coil machines there are also a few options from NCE< Digitrax, and Lenz.
FWIW, I'm not a big fan of operating turnouts from my DCC controller. It's somewhat cumbersome for any system to key in the address and operate the turnout, vs buttons or toggles on the fascia. My grand scheme for the 'big one' is actually somewhat complicated, but that being mainly so I can have a dispatcher with a CTC console. My panels will have input devices, mostly the Hans Deloof LocoIO which can take pushbuttons inputs and send commands over Loconet, so each panel will tie to the system via just a Loconet cable. Each turnout will have a Tortoise controlled by a stationary decoder. In solo operation mode, the default when the computer with JMRI s NOT turned on, the commands generated by the LocoIO will directly control the particular turnout - like having a directly wired pushbutton. In dispatcher mode, when the computer is turned on and the JMRI panel is loaded, the local buttons will be ignored unless the dispatcher sets that particular turnout to local control. In all cases, or at least in dispatcher mode, entries from the throttle will be ignored. No cheating!
You can wire your layout up with separate blocks, like you would on a DC layout and then add boosters later if you find you need them. I think the Digitrax website will handle 9-11 locomotives at once, though some guys have reported having had more running than that. BTW as a rule of thumb, count sound engines as two regular engines. If you have an enginehouse / roundhouse it's nice to make that a separate block so it can be turned off.
I would start with the Zephyr and hold off on other stuff. Find out if you really need remote-control turnouts before or extra power boosters before adding them. I would advise again that if you go with a handheld unit, get the radio version up front. Even if you don't use it as a radio unit, it will work fine as a plug-in one (with an extension cord from the local telephone store). That way to go with radio control you just need to add the UR-91 receiver - you won't need to buy a UR-91 and a new handheld unit.
Also, take a look at different units available, see whether you need to control two trains at a time or just one. If you plan on having multiple operators, a couple of UT-4R's might make more sense than the more expensive DT-400's.
You may be surprised at just what 2.5 amps can power. I ran all of the following at the same time on my Zephyr (and only stopped here because I couldn;t actively control them all and I didn't wan tthem crashing into one another):
Broadway Limited PRR M1a with sound
2x PCM Reading T-1 with sound
2x P2K GP-7, no sound
Stewart DS4-4-1000, no sound
Stewart F-7, no sound
P2K SW-7, no sound
And connected but not on the track, a Soundtraxx DSD sound decoder with a resistor instead of a motor connected (I was workign on installing it in the dummy B unit that went with the F-7 A)
It even had no problems recovering from a short when I deliberately shorted the track. I think it will be a long time until I need an extra booster.
I have done a similar experiment and had 8 sound locos and 2 others running at the same time on the Z.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
The DT400 throttle comes standard with an infrared transmitter builtin, so you only need to buy a receiver to get basic wireless operation.
Don
wjstix I would advise again that if you go with a handheld unit, get the radio version up front. Even if you don't use it as a radio unit, it will work fine as a plug-in one (with an extension cord from the local telephone store). That way to go with radio control you just need to add the UR-91 receiver - you won't need to buy a UR-91 and a new handheld unit.
I would advise again that if you go with a handheld unit, get the radio version up front. Even if you don't use it as a radio unit, it will work fine as a plug-in one (with an extension cord from the local telephone store). That way to go with radio control you just need to add the UR-91 receiver - you won't need to buy a UR-91 and a new handheld unit.
i would say don't get a radio throttle up front at the present time!!! although the infra red, the simplex radio used now on 900mhz, and the NEW to be released soon radio on 2.4Ghz??? pleeease soon!! will all work together on the same system, the NEW DUPLEX radio needs a different receiver. the limitations of the current radio ( have to plug in to acquire loco's ) is for me a PIA, i want proper full function radio that behaves as if it was plugged in. the zephyr can control 3 locos speed and direction at the same time by using the jump ports. if you really want a DT400 or a UT4 from the get go, just get the bog standard one. as already said, it does have IR wireless built in anyway with the additioin of a UR90 ( cheaper than the radio 91 ) which has exactly the same functionallity as the current radio but with lesser range with a few minor ran surrounding structure issues that over 20 feet i doubt would be an issue. if you go for full duplex radio,eventually, it may be better financially to upgrade from a standard unit rather than from one radio type to another? i can't see digitrax wanting or having any use for second hand radio modules for the old simplex system?? patience young padawan.
Well I'm glad I don't have to get a booster anytime soon! Should save some time and money. I was explaining the whole thing about the radio handheld and sh agrees that that would be the one to get right away. Along with a tele. cable and some plug in jacks for walkaround. I really appreciate all your help in this matter
Have great days, Mike