Folks,
I'm looking for input on these operating systems and which one to use as I update all my old equipment and purchase new locomotives. What manufacturer would you recommend and what exactly do I have to purchase to run up to 4 trains at the same time? I know I will have to spend a lot of $$$ for a bunch of state of the art equipment to power my model railroad and I don't want to buy the wrong equipment or more than I will need. Thanks in advance for any input you can supply
Hello. I took the liberty of moving your question to a more appropriate place, so it appears here now. If you scroll down through the various pages, you will find all, if not, most, of the answers you need...there are dozens of threads within 10-20 pages of this opening page that ask that question in essence.
Good hunting!
-Crandell
I use the Digitrax Zephyr. With it I can easily run 6 locos at once with another 6 sitting idle on spurs. Many motor/light control decoders can be had for under $25. Motor control decoders with multiple light functions (ditch lights, strobes, mars light, etc) cost a bit more. Sound decoders cost quite a bit more. Avoid MRC decoders at any cost no matter how attractive the price is.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Well, you have asked a very complex question. But here are a few things to consider:
How many and what brands are your existing locos? Brass? Athearn? Etc? - Different brands are harder/easier to convert to DCC which involves installing decoders. Some may run better than they did on DC, many will not.
Do you like or are you interested in sound? If you have listened to any of the sound equiped locos out now, and like the effect, that more than any factor may mean DCC is your best choice.
How big of a layout are you planning? What features do you want? Signals? Wireless Control? All of these and much more can be done with DC or DCC. Either will involve lots of wiring for features like signaling, CTC panels, and remote control turnouts. Once you get past a bedroom sized layout, or add these other features, DCC is more than just the "two wires" in the advertising hype.
DCC can do things that DC can't. DC can do a long list of features that still require seperate systems with DCC.
If you like computers, DCC is very computer based and things like signaling, dispatcher panels, decoder programing all have software solutions. If you don't like computers, DC can do signaling, detection, CTC, some sound effects, constant brightness lighting, radio throttles, semi automatic train control and provide excelent speed control for the same or less investment and wiring as DCC.
I would suggest you visit some clubs or home layouts a learn about their operations, decide how you might want your layout to operate, and choose a system based on YOUR needs and wants. That may lead you to DCC or it may lead you to a basic DC system or it may lead you to lean about the various Advanced Cab Control systems that have been used in DC for decades. They include MZL by Ed Ravenscroft, Progressive Cab Control, Computerized Block Control, Wireless Cab Control and a host of variations of these systems.
Sheldon
Edited
One example of what DC can do that some might not be aware of - The Aristo Train Engineer uses a modulated pluse width signal at a constant 12 VDC. The headlights light at full brightness long before the throttle setting is equal to the threshold voltage of starting the motor. So, you touch the throttle up bar, the lights come on, you continue to hold or press it and the loco smoothly starts and pulls away with built in adjustable momentum. You slow and stop it, the lights remain on until you lower the throttle setting to completely off.
chazmanfI'm looking for input on these operating systems and which one to use as I update all my old equipment and purchase new locomotives. What manufacturer would you recommend and what exactly do I have to purchase to run up to 4 trains at the same time? I know I will have to spend a lot of $$$ for a bunch of state of the art equipment to power my model railroad and I don't want to buy the wrong equipment or more than I will need.
My answer there would be, if you are going to have four trains running at the same time the choice is easy. Go with DCC. Why - because for four train operation in DC one would have to block all the track and run at least a SP4T switch to each block just to control the cabs. A layout for 4 trains has to be fairly large so I assuming trains are to run both directions and not just chasing tails then a minimum of 12 blocks (which would be a nightmare to control), more likely a minimum of 16 for the main line. I haven't priced a SP4T switch recently but the one I just looked up on the internet was $4.99 and it was not even close to being sturdy enough for this type of service. So that is $80 just for switches more likely twice that. For that much one could purchase a basic DCC system. DCC is basically hook two wires to the track from the control unit and go.
DCC is expandable so one needs something more it can be added on.
With DCC one is not limited to a single vendor. I use all brands of decoders (and can tell you to avoid MRC in that department).
As far as brands I don't think you can go wrong with any of the current offerings by the major vendors. CVP, Digitrax, Lenz, NCE, Zimo, or even the MRC prodigy (check expandability there).
I have a Lenz LH-100 and a Digitrax Zephyr. Love them both. I would have no problem owning the CVP, NCE, or Zimo systems.....
Regardless I would recommend getting one throttle for each train to be operated. That way one doesn't have to be constantly flipping through a "stack" to find the train that needs to be slowed down a bit.
Deleted
ATLANTIC CENTRAL said you have never seen a DC layout with a stopped locomotive with the lights turned on. Mine do that just fine. It works like this - The Aristo Train Engineer uses a modulated pluse width signal at a constant 12 VDC. The headlights light at full brightness long before the throttle setting equal to the threshold voltage of starting the motor. So, you touch the throttle up bar, the lights come on, you continue to hold or press it and the loco smoothly starts and pulls away with built in adjustable momentum. As you stop, the lights stay on until you hold the slow button to the full voltage off setting, after the loco stops. True you cannot turn the lights on or off indipendantly or have the various other lighting effects that you can with DCC. As stated before, I'm personally not interested in all that. Sheldon
said you have never seen a DC layout with a stopped locomotive with the lights turned on. Mine do that just fine. It works like this - The Aristo Train Engineer uses a modulated pluse width signal at a constant 12 VDC. The headlights light at full brightness long before the throttle setting equal to the threshold voltage of starting the motor. So, you touch the throttle up bar, the lights come on, you continue to hold or press it and the loco smoothly starts and pulls away with built in adjustable momentum. As you stop, the lights stay on until you hold the slow button to the full voltage off setting, after the loco stops.
True you cannot turn the lights on or off indipendantly or have the various other lighting effects that you can with DCC. As stated before, I'm personally not interested in all that.
I've seen it. I even built one for a fellow club member. Worked great on one main powered with the MRC ControlMaster 20, didn;t work worth a hoot on the one with the I think it was a CMI Hogger. Or the other way around - all i remember clearly was tha tit worked with one pwoer supply and not the other, due to a differing way of applying the pulses. Sure you can do it, but you have to be careful of what power source you use, and it might not work as expected on a friend's layout.
And sure, you can light EVERYTHIGN up with a high frequency lighting generator - provided you put the bypass chokes and caps at your gaps and protect any transistor power supplies.
I think the point is that whiel you CAN do all sorts of stuff with DC that many peopel would think 'impossible' it sure is a heck of a lot easier with DCC. No one says you have to turn your lights on and off, you can even wire them across the track rather then to a decoder, and theey'll be on all the time. And no tricks required.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Sheldon,You responded in a "very fair and open way"? You said, "DCC can do a few things that DC can't. DC can do a long list of features that cost more with DCC."
For one thing, DCC can do a heckuva lot that DC can't. To even suggest that it's just a "few things" shows that you either don't know much about DCC or that you are being deliberately obtuse. Then there's your statement about the "long list of features that cost more with DCC" without mentioning the even longer list of features that DCC has that DC cannot have, nor the complexity of wiring needed for any kind of DC layout that even approaches DCC's flexibility.
Your attempt to minimize DCC's abilities while maximizing DC's values is pure spin. And you know what, that's okay...but don't try and tell me you're not spinning it, 'cause you are.
BTW, I have more than a bedroom sized layout (25' x 50'), and my layout wiring is just two wires (plus LocoNet). And I run with up to 4 engineers at a time, so please don't continue to state that bedroom size is the limiting factor.
Oh, and I know the last thread got deleted (why?), but did you see the post I made about DS64's not needed a computer to have push button route controls at local dispatcher panels? Back on that other thread, you seemed to think one needed a flat screen monitor at every control panel with DCC. As I showed with that link to Digitrax' website, that's just not the case. Perhaps that's where David gets the idea that you make stuff up.
Good idea about visiting local clubs. The only trick is that in the Boston area, just about all of us have gone to DCC (with the exception of the MIT club...but then they like making their own electronics as they have a reputation to maintain): Hingham, Wakefield, Providence, Taunton, Roslindale, West Barnstable, Bolton, Worcester, and even the modular clubs are just about 100% DCC these days. To be honest, I can't even think of a pure DC (aka no DCC at all) club in these parts.
Finally, David has never attacked you, at least not that I've seen. He's attacked your position, certainly. But not you, personally. If you feel differently, please cut and paste just where he's done so.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Randy,
The effect/operation I described works without any modification to the locos. Take any off the shelf DC loco, with or without constant lighting, put it on the track using an Aristo Craft Train Engineer throttle set to PWC and what I described works. How could anything be any easier.
Paul,
Do you know why it was deleted? I Do.
Yes, I am fully aware of the hardware options for control panels with DCC and never implyed you needed a monitor at every panel, only that is was the common way to do a CTC or "central" panel and that I did not care for that.
DCC's unique features-runnng multiple locos indepently regardess of track blocks including helper service, control of sound and lighting features, consisting other wise mismatched locos, stationary decoders and all they can do, transponding, decoder "settings" of all sorts - what did I miss?
Again, most of that is simply not on my want/need list. And again everyone I know with DCC has a lot more than two wires. But many of them have long mainlines, reverse loops, decoder operated switch machines, signaling, etc.
Call it spin, OK, is it not spin the way the press in this hobby promotes some aspects/views and ignores others, I think so. That is always OK when its your view they support, and never OK when its not.
I wonder if the OP would like to offer an opinion as to whether or not the responses to date have been useful. It might be good to step back a bit and let him decide how to orient the rest of his thread.
Grrr, I had a rather long reponse to all this typed in and fat fignered the wrong key. No time to retype it all now, I'll redo it later.
chazmanf Folks, I'm looking for input on these operating systems and which one to use as I update all my old equipment and purchase new locomotives. What manufacturer would you recommend and what exactly do I have to purchase to run up to 4 trains at the same time? I know I will have to spend a lot of $$$ for a bunch of state of the art equipment to power my model railroad and I don't want to buy the wrong equipment or more than I will need. Thanks in advance for any input you can supply
rrinkerGrrr, I had a rather long reponse to all this typed in and fat fignered the wrong key. No time to retype it all now, I'll redo it later.
I hate it when I do that!
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Sheldon, I'm willing to bet that DCC "experts" know a lot more about DC than DC "experts" know about DCC. Naturally, there are exceptions. I'm sure there are EE's that know far more about building a super-DC layout and can design DCC chips in their sleep...but then they have at least 4 years of engineering school to help them out. Somehow, I don't think that there are that many EE's in the hobby compared to the average Joe model railroader.
Do you know why the post was deleted? I wish you'd tell me. I know you responded one last time on that thread (the MR Forum search turns up that much), but I don't know what was said that would cause the deletion of the entire thread. Did someone violate the rules of the Forum?
Um, sorry, but you did indeed state that one needed computer monitors at every panel location. I'd prove it to you, but the thread got deleted. You went on about how you only needed push buttons and relays to make local routes that could be controlled from multiple locales on a DC layout, and that with DCC you'd need computer screens "at every panel" to do that. I replied that, no, one could use push buttons with DS64's and use the handheld throttles to throw routes without any computers at all...I even posted the link to the Digitrax website that explained how. Next thing I know, the thread got deleted.
In the list of the "few" things that DCC can do that DC can't, you also forgot the computer programs available (DC computer control is a reality, but one would probably have to invent the I/O and the software yourself while JMRI is free), the simplicity of wiring (I have full display of detection blocks and control of my club's switches and signals from the dispatcher's computer using just a single 6-cond. wire), and the cross-compatibility of cabs from layout to layout provided they are from the same manufacturer (I've been to many DC layouts where it's taken me quite a while to get a loco to move because I have to figure out their unique control system). There's also things like an integrated fast clock in the throttle, operating rail cranes, the ability to remotely run trains or be dispatcher using the internet, etc.
Even the list you provided glosses over all the things that can be done with, say, transponding (and if the NMRA ever comes out with Bi-Directional decoders, it will be even more so).
My point is that DCC does more than just a "few things" more than DC can do. That you may not want to take advantage of everything that DCC can do does not reduce DCC's advantages to someone else.
BTW, again, you know at least one guy that has "just two wires" for his DCC layout...me. Sure, I also have LocoNet wired around the layout, but as far as track bus goes, I have just two wires for my 200' double track mainline. Oh, and reversing loops don't require more than two wires, either. A simple MRC autoreverser works just fine by simply putting it between the power bus and the reverser bus. Simple as that. Even decoder operated switch machines only require tapping into the main 2-wire bus and running two small wires to the switch machine.
With signalling/detection, I agree. It's a wire hog in any fashion and just about the most complicated thing one can do in model railroad electronics...which is probably why so few even attempt it.
Remember, I said spinning it your own way was just fine with me. That's what one does during any debate, and I have no problem with it. But just don't tell me you're being unbiased when you do it.
BTW, for what it's worth, I'm not 100% happy with DCC. There are bugs and erratic operations that creep into it that drive me batty. But I am probably around 90% happy with DCC, as the benefits to me outweigh the problems and expenses encountered.
I sent you a private message about why the orginal thread was deleted. If you didn't get it let me know.
As for the is panel thing, I can't recall exactly how I worded what, but David and I where discussing CTC or central dispatch panels and decoder controlled turnouts. I expressed my dislike for on screen type CTC panels - that is all.
Oh, so its not two wires from the booster to the track, its two wires 200' long with taps all around the room. I knew that, but how many newbies know that when people say two wires?
Those few problems you have, all the guys I konw have had them too! BUT, most have fixed them. Guess how? By spending more money on more boosters, circuit breakers, power supplies, etc and breaking their layouts down into smaller power districts and even giving those power districts sub sections with circuit breakers. This is where my comments about cost and complexity come from. The manufacturers and experts may say its not needed, but if you do it and the problems stop, what does that say?
There is software and hardware out there for DC computerized block control, I almost went that way as well. I don't hold an EE, but darn close, so after years of designing relay circuits to run machinery back in the dark ages I think I'm up for this.
My layout is in a similar sized space to yours, but with more than twice the trackage as it is double decked. Many of my DCC friends who have spend a bunch on boosters, etc, also have layouts in 500' double track mainline range.
I have done some cost anylasis and for me, with more than 100 non DCC locos to convert, and the desire for signaling, DCC is like buying a used car. Wireless Cab Control is only 2/3 of a used car. For others that difference might well be less.
And, again, I know DCC does all this "stuff", but most of that stuff is not even on my radar, even after having seen it (or heard it).
Sheldon,
If I were to ask for plans to your wireless DC cab, how much would it cost me? (For the plans, including the required circuit boards)
Don,
I use Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles. You have to buy them from an Aristo Dealer. Train World has a good price. RCS also makes a good radio throttle. If you would like info on how your layout can be wired to take full advantage of these throttles, eliminating most "block" switching, contact me by private message and I will get my schematics and track wiring methods to you no charge.
All I know after 2 years of DCC (versus 40 years of DC), I would never go back. I have a double decker with 500 feet of double track mainlines and another 250 feet of branch lines and run it all with 2-5amp boosters, (one for each level). I used to use Automatic Progressive Block control, (which was never trouble free). I have only the two power districts now, only the built-in circuit breakers and have very rarely had a district shut down due to a short. My track is laid well and trains are run at proto speeds (no speedsters), derailments are just rare. And the wiring IS simpler, just two long busses. After ripping out all the block switches and selling them and the APB, I made enough to buy the 2nd booster and about 10 decoders. The initial cost to get started with DCC was about $400 and the total cost of my NCE DCC system was about $700 so far, including 3 extra throttles, plus $12/decoder (NCE) and some $40-60 sound decoders, (about 80/20 ratio). We run 2-4 multi-unit lashups, (with 50 to 80 cars) on the mains and another 2-3 double unit lashups on the branches during a session. Never had a shut down.
Still use the old diode matrix main and local panels for turnout control. I am considering changing to stationary decoders, but that will be a considerable investment ($300-400), but since we follow the trains and there are local switch panels, the need is not urgent.
In summary, I love the simplified wiring, the individual locomotive control and easy consisting, (controlling the trains not the track). Turning the loco lights on and off, beacons, strobes, ditch and Mars lights that actually work without extra circuits. Sound can be fun too, (and you don't need to put sound in every engine). No more blocks, no reverse switches.
JMHO, Jay.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Sheldon,Sorry, but I just checked my PM box (and my e-mail account), and there's no new messages.
Okay about the computer CTC screens, but next time you might want to mention that push button routes are available for both DC and DCC layouts.
(shrug) I think most DCC newbies know that you need a bus and feeders, since "feeders" and "power bus" wires get mentioned so frequently both here and in the manuals. I also think most newbies don't start with a 200' mainline. If your typical noob layout is a 4x8' or less, then "two wires" is exactly all you need.
About those problems... Remember that I'm also in a fairly large DCC club (8 boosters, 8 BDL168 block detectors, 36 circuit breakers, etc.), and we've got the same little annoying problems there that I do at home. Losing control, missed commands, trains stopping for no reason, etc. Adding boosters, circuit breakers, et al, made no difference. If anyone is telling you that adding boosters and breakers makes all their DCC problems go away, then I'd say they are telling you tall tales. Adding boosters helps run more trains over greater distances. It doesn't make the LocoNet any more stable or make the radios receive better. Adding breakers only isolates a smaller section of track from others when there's a short. It doesn't improve loco performance in any other way.
The cost and complexity of DCC is really about block detection and signalling. If you don't add either of those, then you're gonna be fine. The underside of one's layout will have remarkably less wire than a comparable DC layout. Boosters and breakers (plus stationary decoders, autoreversers and many other DCC add-ons) actually don't add that much wire. For example, take a 200' double track mainline and run a pair 200' of 14AWG wires under it. Say you want two booster districts to cut the layout in half. Cut the rail at 100', cut the 14AWG aire at 100' and terminate it. Set up two boosters in the middle, and wire each one to one 100' section. That's it, not much wire needed there. To add breakers, cut them in to the bus as needed. Naturally, if you want both tracks to be on seperate boosters or breakers, then you'll need to run another pair of 14AWG wire for that 2nd track...but it's not really needed unless you want detection/signalling.
All bets are off with dection and signalling. That needs a lot of wire due to the "star" type wiring needed to route the 16 blocks back to the BDL168, plus things like the SE8c, etc.
Is the computerized DC software that's out there free? JMRI for DCC is...
I think we all understand that you don't want DCC and that you prefer to, um, "roll your own". I don't think anyone has a problem with that. It's a free country.
The problem I have had is mostly with some of the justifications to not use DCC. There are several legit reasons not to use DCC. Things like, "I'd rather spend my money on more models than on controls," or "I want to do things 'old school'," or even the basic, "I don't like it."
But when you see reasons like, "It only does a few things that DC can't," or that DCC is more complicated, or that there is the "DCC hype," or that "It's too expensive,"...well, those are debatable points, IMHO.
Fair enough, I can't and won't disagree with any of that. And, while I did explain my desire for a control system where I am more in "control" of the technoloy used, and I did politely express not wanting to install decoders or use computers (like decoder programing and such), some of those basic things did get lost in the retoric. I apoligize.
Yes at least one of the Computerized Block Control softwares is free.
And, almost everone in this debate has admitted that signaling changes the game. Signaling has always been near the top of my list. Way above many or all of the things most of you guys love about DCC. one of my basic thought's remains, "if I have to have the blocks anyway, and I am comfortable with the limitations, the WHOLE package will be simpler and less expensive without DCC".
My comments about boosters, power districts and the like are all based on the experiances of my friends. Even with some involement from me, I realize that is "second hand".
It does seem to me, from the work and research I have done, and what I have heard from my DCC friends who are planning to do signals, that the Digitrax stuff is not the best route. If you are interested in signaling, you should look into what this guy has to offer: www.oaktreesystems.com
I will send you another private message to clear this up even more.
It is easy to become defensive about this when some people are so "convinced" their way is the only way that makes sense. You where not like that, but some others where, that raised the volume and I should not have let that happen. Some seem so threatened that someone might like what I'm doing rather than join their "club".
My disinterest in onboard sound is another REAL reason for not needing or wanting DCC.
Thank you for your time and professional behavor, even when we all got a little loud.
I am not huge on sound, it's a nice gimmic for the most part, and I only ever had one sound-equipped loco, and I kept the volume rather low because filling the entire basement with soudn from one loco destroys ANY illusion of distance on your layout.
Signals though, yes, definitely signals. Why do you say the Digitrax method is not so good? You don;t even have to run any extra wires! The same telephone wire that controls the cabs also carries the signal system data. It's an actual network, not a glorified multi-drop serial bus. Sure you can do anything you want signal-wise with DC, you have track detectors, and logic circuits to set ehe proper aspect (or a computer - which is by FAR the better way, more flexible then hard wired logic circuits). But there's one little problem. WIth DC you need to add a bias current to detect locos and cars standing in unselected blocks. No big deal? Well, it IS an extra power source and extra wiring. This may not be necessary with the Aristo system (and here's part of what I wrote in my message that I accidently deleted instead of posting) - I'm still trying to figure out just how that thing works. Their literature is not very descriptive and I think completely wrong - readign the manuals it says it puts out a constant DC voltage on the track. Not possible, if you ptu DC on the track and set an unmodified DC loco on said track, it's going to move! The loco has a DC motor connected to the rails, and if those rails have DC it has to move, no two ways about it. Now, if what they really mean is AC - then it would work exactly as you describe. The lights would be on even when the loco wasn't moving. High frequency AC is I think what they mean where they say high voltage DC in their manual. With this you'd also have your bias current for the track detectors.
SOme other things I mentioned in the lost post were thins about DC methods to actually run multiple trains on the same track independently. There certainly are ways, using half wave power but it also requires a diode in the loco. With such an arrangment two locos can be run independently on the same track section, even have a cornfield meet just like DCC and other command control systems. Or if you are into traction and have workign overhead, you can actually run FOUR, but you have to be careful which way you et a powered unit on the track. Yes, you CAN - but you still have to modify the loco, and it's getting a bit beyong DC blocks when you have multiple half-wave power supplies to run all this. ANd it's limited in how many locos can run.
I actually have the old MR's where Ed Ravenscroft laid out MZL. And most of the older ones where Linn Westcott explained various forms of cab control. I fully understand the diagrams - there was a comment in the other thread about EE's - well, I am one. he bottom line still remains, no matter how many gadgets and goodies you hook to DC you can not possibly achieve the freedom of movement you get with DCC (or any of the previous command cotnrol systems). You can set up situations wher eit appears like you have this kind of freedom, but it's not over the entire layout. You can even get rid of ALL toggles or any otehr form of selecting how your power gets to your train, with either computer controls or off the shelf hardwiried bits - some of those have been around for YEARS, no computer required, just plug in a bunch of black boxes to your layout and the power will follow your train, no need to flip any switches, just control speed and direction. Sounds good - but inside those bloack boxes they ARE computers, and you still can't run multiple locos inthe same block independently. Even if you don't care about sound, and don't even care about turning the loco headlights on and off, unless your operating scheme consists of runnign one train with one operator, you simply cannot get the flexibility and freedom of DCC with DC.
The output of the Aristo TE is selectable, it can be pure DC or it can be what Aristo calls PWC for Pluse Width Control. In either setting, at startup, or after pushing the emergancy stop or if you hold the slow buttom long enough, the track voltage does go to zero (well sort of, that's another story).
In the pure DC mode, that what you get, pure variable voltage DC that increases in voltage as you hold the fast button.
In the PWC mode, the output is square wave DC pulses, that are 12 volts as soon as they start. Speed control is completely based on the timing and width of those pluses, not on any change in voltage. The inductive nature of motors resists the leading edge of the pulse until they are close enough together for a smooth but still slow and even start with good torque.
Light bulbs, and their diode and resistor networks, are not inductive, They see these pulses as 12 volts almost right away, lighting at full brightness long before the "effective" voltage is enough to move the loco. The "flash" rate of the pulses is more than fast enough for us humans to simply see the light as "on".
This works on every loco I have tested so far, pick a brand or type of lighting wiring, I haven't found one that didn't work this way yet. No modifications.
Signaling and bias currents - I use Dallee inductive detectors, which by the way work great with DCC. The TE, if it has a drawback, is that it does not seem to be friendly to normal AC bias current systems and detectors. Dallee uses a high frequency bais and the board that creates it also has chokes to block it from moving toward the throttle. It is very stable and works very well. The Dallee detectors are a little pricey, but they have two sets of relay contacts already on them, not just a solid state output. When combined with my turnout control logic, my signal system is complete, no logic card or computers.
Yes, it is old fashioned hard wired logic, but it is all does at the work bench on modules that are then mounted and hooked up with a minimum number of interconnections.
One big advantage to the Dallee detectors is that they will detect both rrails of a given block, this allows me to detect right through my overlaped buffer sections and X section interlockings providing complete prototypical coverage and signal action with fewer detectors.
There is no argument about the freedom and flexiblity of DCC operation - only whether or not you need or want it on every layout.