Hi Guys.
I have a new S 1 and it will not move,when i tested the loco on dc it went ok i then fitted tcs s1 decoder,it went well and then stoped.i removed the decoder and refitted the light board no movement.i tested the decoder its fine.I rang PAUL in TRAIN WORLDand he gave me the go ahead to open up the loco and test everything .ihave done this but no go.what have i done to kill this great little loco.
PATRICK
The decoder will be on a default DCC address of 3. Is that what you're trying to use? You don't provide enough information for us to be able to help you. Are you strill trying to run it on DC? What type of DCC system do you have?
Much more detail is necessary. TCS does not make a S-1 decoder, it's a T-1 or M-1. Which do you have? What scale? Solder in or plug in decoder?
Patrick,
I agree. The Proto 2000 S1 is a great little switcher. I have have to ask the crucial question though:
Did you isolate the motor from the frame BEFORE you installed the decoder into your S1?
If you didn't or you haven't, your decoder will go *poof*.
Even though the box says that the Proto 2000 S1 is "DCC-ready", it's not. You must isolate the motor from the frame. Randy (rrinker) has a terrific pictorial of how to do this on the DCC Control page of his web site:
Decoder install in a Proto 2000 Alco S1
Hope that helps...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Hi.
I am in ho and using nce pro cab i have taken the decoder out and tested it on the nce tester dtk and its ok. decoder is tcs MC2P-S1.I was unaware that the motor had to be isolated from the frame and effectivly rewired there is no mention of this with the instructions supplied. the instal pics on the TCS site do not show this either . iam now trying to run the loco on a dc track that i have for testing but it will not budge.I am getting power from the track and into the motor wires but the motor will not turn,this is on dc.
My loco has some slight differance to thepics on RANDYS brillant page i wonder if mine is a new model.
thanks for the help so far.
If the decoder is still installed in your S1, you may need to move a jumper in order to run it on DC. Some decoders can sense DC or DCC automatically and adjust accordingly. Other decoders require you to physically move a jumper when switching from one to the other. Be sure to double-check the TCS manual that came with your decoder. That may be your problem.
If the decoder is out, check your wheel brushes, track pickups wires (red/black) and motor leads (orange/gray) for "issues". You did reattach the wires, if you removed the decoder? (Sorry, Patrick. The last statement is not meant to be an insult to your intelligence. I have to ask the obvious questions first.)
Thanks Tom.
the decoder is out and ok ,the wires are all showing that power is at the end of them at the board.supplied.
patrick
The 8-pin board is plugged back in place?
yes TOM its back.,I was thinking of soldering the motor wires and track power to that board.to see if it made a differance,or do you think i should plunge into the unknown for me, and try Randys way !!!!!!!!!!!
,
The conversion is fairly simple - especially with Randy's pictorial. Unless you smelled smoke, I think your S1 motor is fine. With that being the case, I would just go for it.
Hopefully, you won't have to remove any of the frame weight in order to get the shell to fit. I used an N- or Z-scale decoder so I didn't have to remove any weight at all. Randy used a larger decoder so he did have to do that.
Patrick, since you are converting, you may also want to consider switching out the incandescent headlight for an LED. A "golden-white" LED will both look more prototypical and put out a very focused beam out the end of the lens.
You really don't see the headlight very well because of the angle of the shot but you can tell that the headlight is on. I have an LED installed in one locomotive that lights up the back wall. If you do go with LEDs, don't forget to add a resistor.
Keep us posted...
Did you test the decoder connected to a motor to confirm that the motor drive portion of it is still good, or just that it was recognized by the tester. The motor drive circuit could well be blown out from not isolating the motor and the decoder would still test good. The only accurate test of the decoder is to connect a spare motor to it and confirm that the motor drive is still okay.
If the motor in the model won't run after removing the decoder and restoring the original board, then something more has definitely gone wrong with it, if you're sure you have the original board properly connected.
Not to beat a dead horse, but if you're trying to run it on DC using the original light board, you have to plug the dummy DCC eight pin plug back in to the receptacle on the lightboard, or it won't run on DC. It doesn't matter if you wired the board back in correctly, without the dummy plug it won't go.
Given your description, I wonder if it wasn't an address problem. I would put the first decoder back in, and try to read the two-digit address. If it's defaulted back to 03 and you're trying to run it using a different number, it won't work. If it says it 03, try running it on 03 and see what happens.
Check the TCS instructions too. On most decoders you have to enter a number into CV 29 to have the decoder recognize four-digit ID numbers. It could be you thought you programmed in a new long-address but the decoder didn't accept it.
Hi everybody.
i have taken the motor apart using RANDYS pics,it was a great learning curve,i had never taken a loco apart before,i have now soldered on the wire and reasembled the unit.am now considering soldering the wires to the 8 pin supplyed board and pluging the tcs decoder into it,???. if this works i will
tackel the lights.i have a motor attched to the tester.
Don't be too surprised or disappointed if the decoder ends up being toast. The only place I know of that mentioned the Proto S1 motor needing isolated before installing a decoder is on Tony's Train Exchange.
Proto locomotives are very nice looking and operating models but they have done some funky electrical wiring in the past. The Proto GP38-2 can fry a decoder because the two track wires going to the NMRA plug are on the wrong tabs. It's another easy fix but this sorta thing shouldn't happen.
If my recollection is correct, the S1 is an early Proto 2000 offering, after the initial BL2 and FA/PA models. Despite the isolation issue, it's still a terrifc locomotive.
Since their acquisition of LifeLike a couple of years ago, my hope is that Walthers has studied and noted these early electrical issues and have been proactive about making sure that their new releases don't repeat these past problems.
TOM.
should i solder the wires to the 8 pin socket and give it ago.
thanks again
Hmmm...It's been about 4 years now, Patrick. I believe I bypassed the 8-pin socket altogether and hardwired the motor (orange & gray), track (red & black), and front and rear headlight (white, yellow & blue-common) leads directly to the decoder. I think that's what Randy ended up doing, too.
Patrick
Hard wire the decoder in the loco. The MC2 has a 7 pin plug on the decoder to harness so if you need to change a decoder later its just a plug and play thing. I run 2 of them on my modules cab to cab. Install LED lights and you will not be disappointed with the little units. The MC2 is small enough to fit the shell and cab on without removing weight. When I MU mine together they look good pulling the 24 or more hoppers from the yard. I put the cab lights on F1 but the long hood lights are still on F0. That gives me independent lights when run together.
Don't forget to put a small piece of electrical tape under the motor and be careful when fitting the shell back on so you wont pinch the wire to the bottom brush.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Use the TCS decoder, don;t try to put the DH163L0 in it. I only did that because I had one and wanted to prove I could make it work without changing the bulbs for LEDs. It would have been easier to put in LEDs then file down the frame.
I have another, and a TCS T-1 which I think will actually fit if I hard wire it. As soon as I order some LEDs so I can finish the GP-7 I'll do the S-1 and get more pics - I have a better quality camera now, too. You DEFINITELY have to do the orange wire thing, or hope that your loco never ever derails and skews the truck sideways, or your decoder will go poof.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
GOOD EVENING ALL.
The news from Ireland is good. My ALCO S1 is running very well.
I would like to thank TOM and RANDY and all you guys for the help,i even have the leds working.
Once again the forum has been an imense help.
Regards to all.
DAVID.
Good evening,i am not an expert, but i followed the instructions given by proto for the S1, it worked fine,then i put the shell back on, and it went dead,i followed TOM S AND RANDYS ,INSTRUCTIONS and i have aworking loco,I think that when put the shell back on the motor shorted out on the lower brush mount,the S1 is super model and TCS decoder must iron cast it is perfect .the loco run now for 4 hours,i took the bull by the horns and changed over to LEDS also.
This event has shown just how valuable the advice so generously given, can help others who are thousands of miles away.
best regards DAVID,I always read your comments with interest.
Hey, that's terrific news, Patrick! I'm pleased that you got your S1 up and going and you didn't blow the decoder. LEDs are sweet, aren't they?
How's the low speed response with this particular TCS decoder? Does it come with BEMF?
Patrick, if you have a chance, please post a picture of your newest jewel...with the lights on. Thanks for the update.
I dunno about the S1 but by GP-7 (also P2K) runs great with the T-1 decoder. They have BEMF now, and it works very well. You can program it so you can turn BEMF on and off with a function key - I set the loco to crawling and turned BEMF - it stopped. Minimum speed with BEMF off is much much faster. I'm thinking it's worth it for the few extra bucks to get T-1's instead of my old standby D13SRJ.
Tom patrick and all,
Here's a photo of my S1 with decoder and warm white LED headlight fitted. No bluish tinge to its' colour.
Notice the orange Bachmann headlight on the 45tonner behind. I think the warm white one in the S1 looks much better. Unfortunately the cab light is not as bright because of all the light guides to get through the cab (the LED is in the engine bay), I wasn't brave enough to disassemble the cab and put the led directly behind the headlight opening.
cheers
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
Someday maybe Bachmann will get it right. They used bright white (the bluish kind) of LEDs in the E33 electric which IMO ruined the look, and then they use a yellow/orange in the 45 tonner? Seems like it's "Hmm, what LED can we buy today"
Alan and Randy,
I have two beautiful Trix Mikes that came with that orange "maintenance-free" LED headlight. It's always bugged me and I've always wanted to replace it.
Thankfully, I just found out recently that the boiler front is press fit into the shell and will come off (if pushed out from the inside) so that the light board can be accessed and the LED switched out for a golden-white. I would think your 45-tonner should be a fairly simple conversion.
AlantrainsUnfortunately the cab light is not as bright because of all the light guides to get through the cab (the LED is in the engine bay), I wasn't brave enough to disassemble the cab and put the led directly behind the headlight opening.
That stupid "light pipe" arrangement really ticked me off. I eventually took the whole thing apart and did it right, with LEDs at each end, right in the opening. Yes, it was a pain to remove the cab assembly, but every time I run at night I'm glad I did it. By the way, the side glow from the LED illuminates the cab, which is a nice effect in itself.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hello TOM
The decoder is a TCS MC2P-S1 IT HAS back emf i also programed the DITHER function the loco is well worth the effort to strip down and do a proper job,the leds are fantastic.It runs so slow you would hardly notice it.
i do not know how to post a photo on the forum,many thanks again to everybody
Hi Patrick,
I'm glad you got it all working, it's a great little loco that S1. Mine crawls along like yours too.
Posting photos is a two stage process.
You have to upload them to one of the photo hosting sites like photobucket
then you use the link that the photo hosting site provides and put that in your post to the MR forum.
Most of the photo hosting sites are free, you just have to register with them first.
Re Orange headlights, I have a Bachmann climax which also has orange head and tail lights and it looks bad.
I'm glad the forum help turned out so well. My first decoder installation was on a Proto S-1. If you have another one to do sometime, you can use the LokSound Micro and have sound too. There are some postings about doing this. The light board and weight has to be removed and you have to hard wire it so there is room for the speaker but the lighter weight and extra work trade off for sound is more than worth it.
Mark