1/3 the way through my layout build in N scale, DCC (Zephyr), Peco Insulfrog turnouts, & I am panicing AGAIN over whether or not to go live frog:( I JUST WANNA RUN & ENJOY TRAINS!:)
In operation, I run diesel %85 of the time with NO stalls or shorts, you'd think I'd rest easy then. BUT as I run, I enjoy steam more & more, BUT do have a nice little 4-8-2 light mountain that runs flawlessly. I do however have a Model Power 4-4-0 that stalls on the insulfrogs except at high speeds (still jerky)
Now I find myself falling in love with smaller European locos from trix, roco, & Arnold, such as a small 0-6-0 switcher by Roco
What would YOU Do?
How many steamers am I going to find with insufficient pickup coverage if I stick with insulfrogs?
Is there a way to improve pickup on insulfrogs?
Will that little 0-6-0 by chance slide through an insulfrog?
You can tell I'm scared of live frog turnouts (electrofrog), its all the wiring & work I guess, & the nomenclature is greek to me. If anyone has a link to actual PICS of an installation, that might help.
Plus I already have a working layout with my beloved simple insulfrogs installed & ready to ballast:)
Thanks everybody
Lee
Lee,
I had a similar problem with insulfrogs leading into spurs. I used a jumper wire underneath the layout to power the exit track on the turnout. I used a multi meter to diagnose the problem.
Hope this helps.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
There are a couple of issues as the steamer gets shorter in terms of its pickup base: the distance between the two pickups of opposite polarity that is the greatest, but also how smoothly the engine can get onto and through the frog until its forward pickup axle regains contact with powered rail.
If you have a smallish engine that can cross super smooth frogs, say a Central Valley or Fast Tracks frog, that is also isolated and non-powered, and the pickups are sufficiently spread over the length of the engine that at least one wheel picking up power from each rail maintains contact, you are home free. But, if the frog is a commercial one that has not been tuned, and if that frog causes the frame of the engine to tilt due to axle lift, then you should anticipate problems.
You have some options, even with a little tank engine that is a tenderless 0-6-0; always tow a box car or an auxiliary tender of some kind, that has pickups in the trucks and wires to the engine. The wires may be a bit of a pain, but if not doing that precludes your operation of this tiny engine..........?!
I have longish Fast Tracks #8 turnouts with the gaps placed around the frogs per the specifications. Even so, my little Proto 2000 Heritage 0-6-0 with tender never skips a beat across them. What you could do is learn of the details of the pickups on these engines, find out their spread functionally, and then look at the dead zone in the frogs you are contemplating. If your power base is well over the lengths of the dead frogs, you can perhaps look forward to dealing strictly with improving commercial frogs. Failing that, get some Fast Tracks or CV turnouts on ebay or from a friend who makes them.
To sum up, I think that the major limiting factor won't likely be the power pickup base, unless it is an older engine...I could be wrong and you would know soon enough once you did more research or saw the engine first-hand. I still think that any defect in the frog that would cause one corner of the frame to lift, due to a local axle being forced up at the frog point or due to fill in the frog, is going to cause you the lion's share of grief.
-Crandell
As Crandell aludes to, small model engines (4 or 6 driver wheels) often have great difficulty keeping 4 wheels in solid contact with the rails. All too often, at least one of the 4 is in the air because the rigid frame and the rail head are not perfectly parallel at all times - usually a track problem unless the loco frame is bent. The 6 wheel locos are just as bad because the frame is still rigid. And as long as we modelers are not willing to pay the same price for a 6 wheel switcher as a 4-8-4, we're not going to get equalization or working sprung drivers. So unless your trackwork is truly excellent, you can expect to often have only one wheel on a given loco side actually picking up power. This fact guarantees stalls at dead frogs when one side of the frame is lifted for any reason.
Live frogs are not a thing to be feared. Being made of rail, they often look more realistic than dead frogs. The easiest way to wire a live frog to create an isolated frog (gapping all 4 rails, but the live frog, unlike its dead cousin, can be as long as you want) which is then powered by a contact on the turnout throw mechanism. The frog is jumpered around, creating the same wiring as a dead frog but with the addition of the contact. Trust me, wiring live frogs is far easier than adding pickups and trailers to small switching locomotives. The Kalmbach wiring books and several web sites explain the whys and wherefores of live frogs.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I have a Proto 2000 0-8-0 and never had a problem going forward through any of my Atlas #4 insulfrog turnouts. However, the one issue I did have was backing through them. The wheels of the tender would sometimes "pick the frog" and derail. I surmised that a little weight in the tender would quickly rectify that issue.
With that said, I decided to switch out my Atlas #4 turnouts to Fast Tracks #4.5 & #5 "live frog" turnouts. They are a little more work to wire up correctly but I have not had ANY continuity problems with them - either forward or backward. I also prefer the look of the Fast Tracks turnouts over the Atlas, as well.
Tom
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