Fast Tracks double crossover turnout

[HHPATH56]

 Can anyone tell me whether or not a "double-slip switch" would do the same thing with only two tortoise machines required.  I use two single-slip switches and two double-slip switches connected to allow a switcher access to any track in the HO seven track "stub ended yard",  (which is not Fast Track) These switches have insulated frogs and being a stub-ended yard, it is not a reverse loop.          Bob Hahn

 

[fisker76]

For those interested, two On-Gaurd auto-reverse modules will allow you 'automate' the reverse sections of the cross-over; what Bill refers to in the above pictures as areas 1, 2, 3, & 4.  Each reverse module has two outputs A & B; each output is wired to each individual section.  So unit one would correspond to sections 1 & 2, unit two would be wired to sections 3 & 4.  This also seems to resolve the issue of having all four switches 'synced' if one wants to use Tortoises; each end of a crossover can operate independently of the other using either a push button control or in conjunction with a Wabbitt/Hare decoder. 

Right now I'm controlling the switches using  regular Caboose ground throws for temporary operation and have on order the Torts and Wabbitts.  Yes, I could have wired two 'opposite' Torts to the sections 1 & 2, however I like the idea of independent control for each switch and the additional cost is $22 for the 2nd reverse module

So far my running tests have resulted in flawless operation; my largest locos [4-8-4] spanning all four sections; multiple units [diesels and steam]; and small wheel base [SW 9].

Hopefully by next weekend I can have the entire crossover automated with the wabbitt cards and will report on any successes and failures.

 

[Bill54]

If anyone needs the DPDT toggle switch schematic I can put it on the fourm.  Let me know.

Bill

[fisker76]

 Bill,

Great photos and schematics.  I know that many others besides myself will find this very useful.

 Erik

[Bill54]

Below is the wiring schemetics I used to get my Fast Tracks Double Crossover powered.

Note the direction each tortoise machine is facing.  They are in opposite postions because when you mount them under the table they are soo close it makes it too hard to screw all 4 screws in each tortoise machine.

 

This picture is the actual tortoise machines mounted under the layout.  Please excuse the wiring mess.  However, as ugly as it looks it does work. 

 

This is just a close up picture of how the tortoise machines are mounted under the layout.  These are on the right side of the crossover. 

 

Here I just wanted to show the tortoise machines as they line up with the diagram.

 

This is the wiring schematic.  Note that Tortoise #1 & #3 are numbered in the opposite direction than Tortoise #2 & #4.  That is because the tortoise mounted on the inner track is in the opposite direction than the tortoise mounted on the outer track.

 

This is the same schematic as above but with the wiring highlighted.  Also in the pictures shown below that are highlighted you will note they show two bus lines A & B.  That is because I am using two power districts for the inner and outer tracks.  So if you are not using two different power districts follow the sechmatic above that is not highlited.  There is really no difference.

 

Same schematic but showing the wiring flowing to allow switching from Tortoise #1 to Tortoise #4

 

The same schematic showing the wiring flow to allow switching from Tortoise #2 to Tortoise #3

 

This is the wiring schematic I got off the Fast Track forum showing the wirirng for the double crossover.  DO NOT USE THIS FOR WIRING!!!  It will create a short.  I am showing it only to show what frogs are being powered.  Frog #1 is Dark Green, Frog #2 is Orange, Frog #3 is Light Blue, and Frog #4 is Light Green.

 

Note that in all the schematics there is no #1 & #8 tabs on the tortoise.  They are the poles that connect to the DC current and operate the machine.  I use DPDT switches for those.  I never made drawings of those but can if anyone would like them for referece purposes.

 

I started this on Friday night and had to stop because I was having problems with my internet provider.  The system kept locking up.  So the last two pictures and information were loaded Saturday morning for clarification.

Hope this helps.

Bill

 

 

 

[Bill54]

fisker76

Bill,

Yes I am aware of the need to power the frogs.  Like you, I did not find a schematic for DCC wiring using the Tortoises to switch track polarity in conjunction with an auto reverse unit, all controlled by DPDT switches.

I very much appreciate piuctures, schematics, information and the work you have already done, along with your willingness to share and stay on topic

 

I was hoping to get the pictures of the wiring schmatics done last night but we had a family emergency (Mother in Law taken to the ER for emergency surgery). 

I will try to get it out tonight after we return from the hospital. 

Bill

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

Poke around the FT forum.  There is a great diagram, probably two or three years ago by now, showing how to use the autoreverser and a switch/Tortoise.  It works great!  I'll look for it later if you don't find it.

[fisker76]

Bill,

Yes I am aware of the need to power the frogs.  Like you, I did not find a schematic for DCC wiring using the Tortoises to switch track polarity in conjunction with an auto reverse unit, all controlled by DPDT switches.

I very much appreciate piuctures, schematics, information and the work you have already done, along with your willingness to share and stay on topic

 

[Bill54]

Eric,

I have a FT #8 double crossover on my layout.  I am using tortoise machines to throw the turnouts.  I'm using two DPDT switches to operate two tortoise machines at the same time so both switches coinside with each other.  The same with the oposite two tortoise machines.  I will post a picture of my wiring diagram that I used. 

You will have to power the frogs because the one section is too long for most loco's to maintain electric connection with such a gap. 

What I can tell you is the diagrams they post on the site did not work.  I had a short everytime I tried it.  I'm using a NCE Power Pro DCC system but do not have the system working the tortoise machines as I stated I'm using DPDT switches. 

I worked on this wiring diagram for several weeks before finally getting it to work.  Hopefully I'll be able to get the pic's on here later tonight.

Bill

[wedudler]

fisker76

I just completed construction of a Fast Tracks [FT] no.6 double crossover and the most difficult part of the project is now ahead of me; wiring this complex track arrangement.

Can anyone provide a precise diagram/picture and arrangement of components necessary to complete what I have started? described in pictures

 

Here's a diagram for a half double crossover with dliamond I've made for my Diamond Valley..

You find more at Allan Gartner's site. 

Wolfgang

[selector]

David, I only meant that if this appliance were meant to have any rail gaps, I would assume (really meaning "hope...") that the user had actually done that, otherwise there will be shorts.  I forgot a gap one time with the predictable results upon power-up.

I should probably go to that site and learn more about the construction of that one appliance.

I believe you have built some FT turnouts yourself...I seem to recall you saying that.  Did you use a cut-off disk or a jeweler's saw?  I paid through the nose for a jeweler's saw on line, but I must say it was worth every penny because the teensy gaps are almost invisible from even 18" away.

-Crandell

[selector]

I don't know much about this item, but Fast Tracks' method requires isolating the frogs by gapping them from their frog rails and from any points. I am assuming the OP has done this as well as cutting the copper cladding on the ties if/where necessary.

[rrinker]

 My method with complex trackwork is to make a table, and list all posisble ways a train can go through it. Next to each one list what polarity a given frog has to be to allow the train to go through - call it Rail A and Rail B, if the continuous rail on the left of a particular route is Rail A and the right hand wheels have to pass over a frog, then that frog ahs to be Rail B polarity for the train to run. Once you have a list, you can usually figure out which frog needs to be toggled with which set of points

                            --Randy

 

[fisker76]

Hello group,

I just completed construction of a Fast Tracks [FT] no.6 double crossover and the most difficult part of the project is now ahead of me; wiring this complex track arrangement.

Can anyone provide a precise diagram/picture and arrangement of components necessary to complete what I have started? The schematics on the FT website appear to outline the d.c. aspect; what about DCC? As I am not a technician or engineer I fall into the group that believes a thousand words is best described in pictures

The following link illustrates the four isolated circuits that comprise the frog areas of the crossover;

http://www.handlaidtrack.com/forums/download/file.php?id=106

Each colored frog area is gaped, isolated electrically, and is all metal,  I don't understand what electrical components would be needed to operate the turnouts manually using conventional caboose throws or, for complete automation, using Tortoise motors in conjucntion with my NCE DCC system.  I think when I complete this project I'll be well versed in circuitry.

 Thanks in advance to all who can provide relevant, detailed pictures and schematics.

Erik