Since my advice based on exactly what NCE tells you to do is not wanted, I'll give it to you anyway. What NCE says to do is buy a second PCP and the little power supply, both sold seperately from buying a complete PowerCab set. You do not need to link the panels, just connect track power from both panels to your track. You now have two places to plug the PowerCab into. Yes, trains will stop when you pull it out of one and move it to the other - no matter what scheme you use to try and move the PowerCab. There is no way to be able to unplug the PowerCab and move it and still have trains run short of buying the SB3.
I am not trying to get into some sort of contest (yes I know what word you censored). Maybe your version of the manual has things on a slightly different page, but the fact remains, whether you chose to accept it or not, that you are doing something clearly different from what the instructions tell you, and then blaming NCE for it not working. Obviously there are possible workarounds but you are compeltely on your own there and I would not expect NCE to be able to help with this. And there are likely consequences to this workaround if you ever do expand beyond the basic PowerCab system, since the rest of NCE's systems are not wired like that. That's great you managed to get it to work the way you want, but modifying UTP panels certainly goes beyond the "plug it in and go" beginner design of the PowerCab.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
wheeler I saw the schematic on the NCE forum, and may,with your help look at modifying the UTP.The best info is that the power does indeed travel from the cab (handheld) to the track. SOOOO up to 2.0 amps CAN travel thru the tiny wires right? I agree that that is kinda "pushing it", but at the same time figguring if the cab to the track can handle it, why would not the daisy chained connections thru the back? \
I saw the schematic on the NCE forum, and may,with your help look at modifying the UTP.The best info is that the power does indeed travel from the cab (handheld) to the track. SOOOO up to 2.0 amps CAN travel thru the tiny wires right? I agree that that is kinda "pushing it", but at the same time figguring if the cab to the track can handle it, why would not the daisy chained connections thru the back? \
This is where the problem comes in using a remote jack for the Powercab. It needs to stay plugged in to supply power to the rails. Unplug it and everything stops. In addition the Powercab does double duty as a Command station. The command station in a DCC system must stay connected to the rails.
Now if that doesn't bother you, go for it. extending the two track wires to a UTP may be possible as long as the jacks have 6 pins. If not, Tony's Train exchange sells their own make of UTP panel that would work.
As far as wire size? Voltage drop is a product of wire cross section size and length. Increase the length and you will need to increase the wire's cross section. NCE has most likely done the calculation based on a known length of the included Powercab cord.
Martin Myers
THanks Earl and CSX for your help. I do not think I will buy the booster just yet,I have just gotten to where I want to operate from 2 places.
I saw the schematic on the NCE forum, and may,with your help look at modifying the UTP.The best info is that the power does indeed travel from the cab (handheld) to the track. SOOOO up to 2.0 amps CAN travel thru the tiny wires right? I agree that that is kinda "pushing it", but at the same time figguring if the cab to the track can handle it, why would not the daisy chained connections thru the back? Anyways I can now proceed to get this running as "I" want. For the guy who wants to get in a ****ing contest about what version of manual I have and insinuating that I did not look at it, when you see my name in a post, hit your "back" button from now on.
My clubs layout is 100% DC, I think 1 guy has heard of DCC, so local actual help is non existant. Conversely, I have never been to another layout to use my cab and the 4 pin cable at all.So forgive me for not knowing how it was supposed to work (without clarification here)
Well put, Earl.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Wheeler, I too had similar problems when initially setting up my Power cab system- I also thought that I could just plug in the Power Cab in any old port staged around the layout. I was *** when I discovered that would not work and needed to buy an SB3 to be able to do that. I hated to have to part with and additional $105 (SB3 ($75) plus another 3 amp power supply ($30) to get what I thought I was supposed to have already gotten when I bought the Power Cab system.... I found that the manual was very technical in it's nature and not user friendly to a first time DCC purchaser, but after reading it several times (what a pain! I just wanted to plug and Play) I finally caught on to what everyone is trying to tell you, the flat cord has 6 wires in it because it carries the power from the transformer thru the cab, to the track. That is why you can only use it on the left side. The curly cord has only 4 wires in it that carry the control signals to the track to be decoded by your devices on the engines or stationary decoders. That is where their slogan "Use it at Home and at the Club" comes in.
At home you use the 6 wire cord and through the cab, run the entire layout. At the club you use the 4 wire curly cord and the cab is now not powering the track ( the club's main unit is) and is in all essence just a Pro Cab. If you want walk around capability, you must either use an SB3 and UTP's,or buy another Cab and plug it into the right side jack. You can now add UTP's and use the other throttle as the walk around, but the Power Cab will have to remain plugged into it's left hand jack at all times. As soon as you unplug it, the entire layout goes dead. If you go the SB3 route, you will not be able to use your Power Cab to program in the Program track mode, but will be able to program on the main with it. I have set up my Power cab on the work bench test track separately with the original PTP to be able to use the Program track function and use the SB3 with it's own power supply to run the layout. I did buy additional cabs (CAB04e's) for my 2 grandsons to use when they are over. After a year of cussing and reading and buying a lot of extra stuff, finally have what I thought I was getting in the first place. The best advise I can give is to read, ask questions, either here or at your LHS, read and ask some more. We who have been there before you are now here to help.. I am not an expert, but I am becoming one.
An expert is someone who has paid (or better yet been paid) to make the same mistakes so you don't have to do them yourself.
We are here to help!
Earl
I once caught a train in my pajama's. How it got in my pajama's I'll never know... (sorry, Groucho)
There are actually two more options available, as long as you understand and can accept that when you unplug the Power Cab to move it, the layout will shut down.
The first option is to modify the PCP so that pins 1 and 6 of the RJ12 port on the rear are connected to the track ouputs like the ones on the front left port. NCE has published the schematics for the PCP and the UTP and they are available on the NCE Yahoo groups site(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NCE-DCC/files/NCE%20Schematics%20Public%20Approved/). You do have to sign up for Yahoo groups to access them. If you can read a schematic, you can see where you can add jumpers to the DPDT footprint to connect pins 1 and 6 on all three of the RJ12 ports on the PCP. The UTP just acts as a splitter and has all 6 pins wired to all 4 ports, so by making the modification to the PCP you can daisy chain the UTP to the rear port on the PCP and plug the Power Cab into the UTP. I personally would not recommend this because you have your layout power running through the small gauge daisy chain cable to the UTP and back through to the PCP, but it can be done. Also note that I am going off of the schematics that NCE has released, so if there is any error in them, it may not work as I described.
The other(and better) option is to buy another PCP and connect it to the track at the other location. You could power the other PCP using the daisy chain cable plugged into the rear ports of the PCP's(I would not recommend this), but it would be better to power the other PCP with another PS114 power supply. If you were to do this, you would not want the daisy chain cable between the PCP's, because that would connect the power supplies together in parallel. You can have both PCP's attached to the track and to their power supplies at the same time because they do not supply any power to the track unless a Power Cab is plugged in.
wheeler,
Just so we're on the same page. The wall transformer plugs directly into the back of the PCP panel, which supplies power to your Power Cab. The UTP panel does NOT have the same board installed onto it.
The 6-wire cable MUST be used with the Power Cab (vs. the 4-wire cable) because the extra two wires are what supply the power to your track. Your Power Cab MUST be connected to the LEFT connector port in order to do this. The right connector port is ONLY to be used for extra throttles.
If you disconnect the Power Cab from the LEFT connector port of your PCP panel, your layout will shut down because the Power Cab is the command station, booster, and throttle rolled up into one unit.
As previously mentioned, you can NOT use the Power Cab with a UTP panel because the boards are NOT the same. There is no connector ports for either the wall transformer or your track power. (wheeler, I assume you were thinking that this could be supplied by the 6-wire cable daisy-chained from the back of your PCP panel?)
You can use a 4- or 6-wire cable to daisy-chain from the back of a PCP or UTP panel. However, the UTP panel will not be able to distinguish the difference because it's NOT designed to receive power.
If you are wanting to use your Power Cab in a different location as a remote, you have three options open to you:
wheeler, those are basically the choices you have if you want a remote throttle or the ability to move around your layout. You could also purchase the NCE PH Pro system. However, I would imagine that's more $$$ than you'd be willing to spend.
If I may make a suggestion, wheeler: You might want to download the most recent version of the Power Cab manual from the NCE web site. Click "Products" from the left side of the home page then "Power Cab System and Related Products". There's a blue bar labeled "Power Cab". Click "Download Manual" to start the download sequence. Make sure you have a .pdf reader like Adobe or Foxit. I printed mine out and have it in a binder notebook so that I can write notes in the margins.
wheeler Well I'm looking at the PowerCab manual right now and on page 3 is shows how to wire it up to your layout, and on page 14 it shows how to hook up an extra UTP panel and also explains the functions of the 6 and 4 wire cables. It also says the PowerCab will only supply track power when plugged in to the left jack on the PowerPanel with the 6 wire cable. So what's missing? Oh yeah, the side with the TWO RJ jacks is the FRONT not the back. --Randy My manual says: "By convention all DCC locomotive decoders are set to short address#3... and ends up with "RUNNING TWO LOCOMOTIVES WITH ONE CAB" PP 14="set the procab address" on PP12 it says"The flat 6wire cable carries track power from the powercab to the power panel. Use this cable for power cab operations". So, if the powercab itself "makes the power/signal", plugged in, thru the daisy chain(ed) connections would transmit that signal to the track if powered at the UTP.
Well I'm looking at the PowerCab manual right now and on page 3 is shows how to wire it up to your layout, and on page 14 it shows how to hook up an extra UTP panel and also explains the functions of the 6 and 4 wire cables. It also says the PowerCab will only supply track power when plugged in to the left jack on the PowerPanel with the 6 wire cable. So what's missing? Oh yeah, the side with the TWO RJ jacks is the FRONT not the back.
My manual says:
"By convention all DCC locomotive decoders are set to short address#3...
and ends up with "RUNNING TWO LOCOMOTIVES WITH ONE CAB"
PP 14="set the procab address"
on PP12 it says"The flat 6wire cable carries track power from the powercab to the power panel. Use this cable for power cab operations".
So, if the powercab itself "makes the power/signal", plugged in, thru the daisy chain(ed) connections would transmit that signal to the track if powered at the UTP.
My page numbers come from the version currently on the NCE web site. Top of Page 14 says "System Power Panel Description". First note under the diagram says "The Power Cab will deliver track power only if it is plugged in to the LEFT socket with the flat, 6-wire cable" and on the diagram itself it shows the PCP cord with a label "Power Cab Here ONLY" which to me means - it goes HERE and never ever anywhere else. Page 3 gives the text of how to wire it up, the diagram on page 2 again show the PowerCab plugging in to the LEFT jack on the PCP. Page 14 and the digram there also explain the use of a UTP but again, the text and picture on that page make it pretty clear the Power Cab itself must remain plugged in to the PCP, not get plugged in to an optional UTP.
rrinker Nice job quoting two different reponses to make it sound like the various replies on here gave the guy incorrect information. I much prefer Digitrax to NCE, but that doesn't mean I'm going to post wrong information from the manual to make it look bad. Under no circumstances is the daisy chain connection either from the PCP to a UTP or from UTP to UTP on the FRONT of the device, assuming you define 'front' as the side with the faceplate, that would be on the outisde of the fascia if you mounted it there, the side where you plug the cabs into. It's true, there's no way to do what the O/P was trying to do - neither is there any hint in the manual that would lead you to believe it could be done that way. I merely mentioned the pages of the manual where it explicitly mentions the things the O/P said were 'missing' from the manual. --Randy
Nice job quoting two different reponses to make it sound like the various replies on here gave the guy incorrect information.
I much prefer Digitrax to NCE, but that doesn't mean I'm going to post wrong information from the manual to make it look bad. Under no circumstances is the daisy chain connection either from the PCP to a UTP or from UTP to UTP on the FRONT of the device, assuming you define 'front' as the side with the faceplate, that would be on the outisde of the fascia if you mounted it there, the side where you plug the cabs into.
It's true, there's no way to do what the O/P was trying to do - neither is there any hint in the manual that would lead you to believe it could be done that way. I merely mentioned the pages of the manual where it explicitly mentions the things the O/P said were 'missing' from the manual.
You are correct in saying that the daisy chain connection should not connect to the front of the panel, but that is what he did to get it work the way he wanted it to, and that was part of his complaint - "...leaving the ribbon cable hanging out and looking stupid."
Although he did not explicitly say it, I'm sure he wired it up according to the manual at first. He thought that at this point he would be able to unplug the Power Cab from the PCP and plug it into the UTP and have it work. That didn't work, because that is not how it is supposed to work, so he started moving cables around until he got it to work. If you run a cable from the left front port of the PCP to the UTP, then you can plug the PowerCab into the UTP and have it work.
...I did not recieve any kind of plug, nor did the instructions mentioning powering the TRACK. It did go on about adding a LED to show if track power was present, but was optional, and I do not wish for that at this time...
...Oh, and from your description, it sounds like you installed the UTP with the wrong side facing you...
...Oh yeah, the side with the TWO RJ jacks is the FRONT not the back...
wheelerI got the rest of the "puzzle" together for my new remote plugin station for my NCE powercab. By "puzzle" I mean NO ONE knows what a RJ12 cable is, or is used for. I had to buy cable,ends, and a $$ crimper to make it myself. luckily the tiny paper from NCE did show the pinout.done, works.Now, maybe I am crazy, or expecting too much, but the wire-up as shown from NCE does not work.period. To get it to work, I must plug the powercab controller into the BACK of the UTP.This really defeats the "ease of operation" I was expecting. This plugs into "from command station". To daisy chain the 2 operator ports I have, I must come from the front LEFT, into the front LEFT leaving the ribbon cable hanging out and looking stupid. This runs the yard area fine. Now to operate from the station area, I must unplug the daisy end, and put in the hand held like it was from day 1. This is NOT a UTP, but the factory powercab thing that takes the 12Volt deal AND puts out track power/commands. I AM making a drawing, and will post it up in a bit.
By "puzzle" I mean NO ONE knows what a RJ12 cable is, or is used for. I had to buy cable,ends, and a $$ crimper to make it myself. luckily the tiny paper from NCE did show the pinout.done, works.
To get it to work, I must plug the powercab controller into the BACK of the UTP.This really defeats the "ease of operation" I was expecting. This plugs into "from command station".
To daisy chain the 2 operator ports I have, I must come from the front LEFT, into the front LEFT leaving the ribbon cable hanging out and looking stupid. This runs the yard area fine. Now to operate from the station area, I must unplug the daisy end, and put in the hand held like it was from day 1. This is NOT a UTP, but the factory powercab thing that takes the 12Volt deal AND puts out track power/commands.
I AM making a drawing, and will post it up in a bit.
I do have a few questions though.What the heck is the right port for? has anyone ever used it? What is the "curly" cord for also? Right now, I think it is for strangling the designer of this that really does not know what the term "daisy chain" means, nor tested an actual install. It really seems as if everything is labelled backwards.
It really seems as if everything is labelled backwards.
The right port on the UTP panel is for plugging an extra throttle into. You can daisy-chain from the back of the PCP panel to a UTP in order to use an extra throttle in another area of your layout. However, these should be used for extra throttles only rather than cluging your Power Cab into it. The curly coil is a 4-connector cable for an extra throttle.
If you really want to go the additional remote route, look into the Smart Booster (SB3). This will allow you unplug and plug your Power Cab into a UTP panel or panels around your layout without shutting down the layout. This is why it was designed. You'll still need the PCP panel for programming locomotives on your programming track.
wheeler, ALL the issues you are dealing with and have questions about should already be addressed and outlined in the Power Cab manual. Don't blame the design or the designer (NCE) when you try to circumvent the intended purpose of the equipment.
rrinker Well I'm looking at the PowerCab manual right now
I'm glad that someone did. Probably not the right person, unfortunately.
Quote=Finally, there is another smaller socket on the back of the UTP. When you got the system, there should have been a small plug either plugged into the socket or in a separate part bag. You strip the two ends of the wires going to the track, and insert one end into each of the two little holes on the plug, securing them with the provided screw. The other end of the wire gets soldered or otherwise connected to the track.=quote
I did not recieve any kind of plug, nor did the instructions mentioning powering the TRACK. It did go on about adding a LED to show if track power was present, but was optional, and I do not wish for that at this time.
Including the 4 pin twisted cable for something "I might buy" is silly, it is like having an oil filter for a car I "might buy" or need in the future.
Sadly, I now think that CSX robert is right, and that I could have saved some money by just making a longer cord. Is my thought of moving around the controller that unusual?
BTW- finding oversights in design(s) and software is what I do.
Ahem. I really don't mean to be rude, but did you actually take the time to read any of the information that came with the Power Cab before you tried to use it (or start complaining)?
Go to http://www.ncedcc.com/pdf/Power%20Cab%20Manual%201-25-06.pdf and read the instructions. Page 14 of the instructions has a diagram that shows how to make the connections. The supplied transformer has a round connector that will only plug into one place on the back side of the UTP. And I'm talking about the UTP that came with the system, not any additional UTP you might have.
The flat wire cable is the cable you use when you are using the PowerCab as a stand-alone system. This plugs into the handheld controller and into the front left socket on the UTP. The front right socket is for any additional controllers.
The coiled cable they gave you is for when you might want to use the handset on the larger PowerPro system. This is a 4-wire cable and does not carry any power.
There is an additional socket on the back side of the UTP that looks like the sockets on the front. This socket is used when you want to make a connection (daisy chain) to an additional UTP. Note that this additional UTP will be different from the one that came with the system in that it is not made to accept the power transformer. You will have to buy this UTP separately.
Finally, there is another smaller socket on the back of the UTP. When you got the system, there should have been a small plug either plugged into the socket or in a separate part bag. You strip the two ends of the wires going to the track, and insert one end into each of the two little holes on the plug, securing them with the provided screw. The other end of the wire gets soldered or otherwise connected to the track.
The RJ12 connectors and cable are only required when you want to connect one UTP to another. I'm pretty sure that they are described in the NCE manual.
Oh, and from your description, it sounds like you installed the UTP with the wrong side facing you. If this is the case, I'm sure that it would be your opinion that the designer should be strangled for this also.
I got the rest of the "puzzle" together for my new remote plugin station for my NCE powercab.
Now, maybe I am crazy, or expecting too much, but the wire-up as shown from NCE does not work.period.
I do have a few questions though.What the heck is the right port for? has anyone ever used it? What is the "curly" cord for also? Right now, I think it is for strangling the designer of this that really does not know what the term "daisy chain" means, nor tested an actual install.