Hi,
I'm planning on buying the 5 amp Digitrax Super Chief starter set. While I plan to ultimately have 4 power districts, it makes sense to start out with two, as it will take time before I get decoders in a large number of locos to warrant more.
The 5 amp SC set comes with the controller/booster DCS100. What model will I need for the second district? Must it be a controller/booster combo? Or will it only need to be a booster?
Thanks guys - for your help and education!!!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
If you want a 2nd power district that has a full 5 amps of power then the DB150 is what you will need for a 2nd power district. However, it may be that what you really want is a power management system like a PM42 to create sub power districts. http://www.digitrax.com/prd_powerman_pm42.php It all depends if you need the extra amps.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I prefer the PSX DCC Circuit Breakers over the PM42s but both will work. The PSXs are more flexible. I'd suggest you lay out all of your blocks in advance but start off powering them from a single booster. Then, if you need more power in the future, you can add boosters and move the blocks to the new booster without a major rewiring job. You just move two wires.
The Super Chief system will come with a DCS100 command station/booster. If you need to add a booster in the future you add a DB150 (5A) or DB200+ (8A). I currently have all three spread across 12 blocks on my layout.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
Thank you!
I have the four blocks laid out (on the scale drawings) and given that I have a number of powered ABBA units (24) plus others, I believe a second booster will be needed to start.
I "assume" that I would still need the PM42 if I get a second (or 3rd or 4th) booster. Is that correct?
Thanks,
mobilman44 Thank you! I have the four blocks laid out (on the scale drawings) and given that I have a number of powered ABBA units (24) plus others, I believe a second booster will be needed to start. I "assume" that I would still need the PM42 if I get a second (or 3rd or 4th) booster. Is that correct? Thanks, Mobilman44
If the number of boosters matches the number of blocks then technically you would not need the PM42 or PSX. You could power each block directly from the booster and use the booster's short circuit protection. However, since you won't be at that point anytime soon, you will need them or you will wire multiple blocks to each booster output but that is somewhat self-defeating except that you have the future flexibility to split them out. If it were me, I'd go with the protection devices. One other thing we haven't discussed are reversing loops. Do you have any ? If so then you either need a reversing unit or set a booster as a reversing unit. The PM42 is selectable for each output to be reversing or not. Take a look at 7-8 in the PM42 manual . It shows some commong configurations, including yours.
Note that when a PM42 section is an autoreverser, it is no longer a short circuit device so you need to utilize two sections to perform both functions. With the PSX devices you need a PSX-AR for autoreversing and it can do short circuit protection. The PM42s utilize mechanical relays. The PSX series are all solid state, have more granular trip current settings and have outputs for block detection signaling systems..
There is a very active Yahoo Digitrax Group. Possibly more help and information.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digitrax/
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
You have many engines. Im going to have to encourage you to pick up a DCC power management/Circut breaker for your power districts. I looked at a NCE unit that is capable of delaying power up a short time so that each of my 4 boards will wake up one after another if I do it right.
There is a board at the command station that feeds 4 seperate local boards.
Here is a Local board (one of 4)
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7951/azonepowerboardja2.jpg
That too was a early shot.
I have already been told many times I over engineer things and do things the hardest possible method to achieve a goal.
I plan manual toggles on each zone board to wake em up one at a time until the entire layout is powered. The solution will be a temporary one until I have found a DCC Breaker I understand well enough to install. Little bit old fashioned throwing toggles. Especially big ones.
You say you have 24 engines. To me that is a megafleet. Frankly Im intimidated by that number all at once on a layout.
With so many engines in mind, I would probably end up putting more boosters around your layout in charge of your power districts. DCC Boosters in Digitrax need to be wired as a slave to one master command station. The loconet will help all the slave boosters "Row" the Roman Galley in time with the master.
But firing up a roundhouse with 24 engines inside? I edited this post to discard wild and impractical ideas related to this problem. I would have all tracks in the roundhouse wired so that a toggle will kill em If you select a track to pick an engine to drive out onto the railroad it will be much better.
The future extension into the next room will have a DB150 wired as a slave and talking to the 200 Chief by loconet. Engines leaving one room and entering the other room will cross a gapped track between power rooms. I wont have any problems having ... 4 engines in one room and 4 engines in another.
While the PSX's have outputs to drive some sort of input device, you need said input device for it to actually work - for Digitrax something like a DS64. The PM42's already output power status for each section on Loconet - and you can turn them on and off via Loconet as well, like having block on/off toggles.
For autoreversing, use an AR1 downstream of the PM42 rather than make the PM42 section reversing. The AR1 uses a potentiometer to adjust trip current and is thus infinitely variable. I love how the PSX's have lots of setting for trip currnet but only the first 3 are anything below 5 amps. Wow, it goes up to 19 amps - that's useful for small scale trains!
Bottom line, they ALL work fine. I like the direct Loconet connection for the PM42 since I'm already using Digitrax. The PM42 isn't really suitable for a non-Digitrax system since you can't configure it with another system. The AR1 works with anything, even low current starter sets, because there is not CV configuration, just one simply knob to turn until it works.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hi!
Just got back to the house, and you all were busy answering my questions while I was gone....
The new layout does not have any reversing loops (the existing one has two, and take up too much space).
Right now I have 46 locos w/o decoders, and 5 BLI Paragons w/decoders & sound. I expect on any given day the layout will have - either on the lower level staging, or the loco terminal, or on sidings or the mains - 4 ABBA consists (all units powered), the 5 BLIs, 4 to 6 gps, and 2 - 4 switchers. Actually running at the same time would be max of 2 ABBA consists and 2 other locos.
The staging tracks and terminal tracks will have toggles so they can be totally isolated and shut off.
Almost forgot, I have a 3 foot programming track by the engine terminals that will be isolated as well.
The 4 districts are all staging tracks, double main line, engine terminal, and submains + yard & industry sidings.
On one of my earlier "I don't have a clue" postings, I believe it was recommended that I get both the Super Chief and the Empire starter sets as I would get the extra booster and second controller. Does this still make sense?
Thank you all again!
As for the last bit, that was probably my suggestion,. If you need or want a second throttle, by all mean sbuy the Super EMpire Builder set rather than just a DB150 - I say this because the set costs less than the DB150 plus a DT400. If you have no need for the second throttle then it is just wasted money, but if you are going to buy a second throttle anyway the set makes more sense. The set price is less then that DB150 plus DT400 - and you ALSO get another UP5 panel in the set. So it's the betetr deal - if you need all the pieces.
I think part of the reason two booster were recommended back in the beginning was in part due to your layout size, with two levels, simply to avoid excessively long bus runs. 10 powered units can probably be handled by 5 amps but it would be close - dividning everythign up with half the layout powered by oen booster and half by the other would pretty much insure you wouldn;t have power problems unless all 10 ran in the same area - this is where you have to thing logically about how you intend to operate and divide the power in a way that makes sense. It may not be as straightforward as upper level, lower level.
Randy,
I could see running two ABBA consists on the double main at the same time. If that is too much for one 5amp district (8 locos x 1.? amp per), what happens? Will they slow down, trip a breaker, or explode into a fiery ball? If so, perhaps I should split the main and put one with the sidings, and the other main with the staging area or whatever....
Just the breaker will trip. If you have a double track main, you might want to consider powering one main with one booster and the other with the other. I would think it would be unlikely for two long trains to be on the same main unless someone goofs and they are headed right at one another. That way, one person could be running a big eastbound train, and another person could be running a big westbound, and there'd be no power issues. I think we also previously discussed placement of the power management, such as making your yard one section so someone derailing there wouldn't stop that train out on the main. You'll have to set the trip points of breakers to accomodate the trains running in a given power district - if a 4 unit train drawing 3+ amps is circulatign the main it would eb pointless to set each breaker for 1.5 amps - they'd trip as soon as the train moved. It's Ok to set them higher, so long as they trip before the booster does. The idea is that if something shorts, it will trip the breaker and not the booster, so other trains in different parts of the layout continue to run.
The key is planning ahead. You can cut into bus wires and add more boosters in the future if your power need change, and it's a lot easier to divide up existing wiring then to run a whole bunch of new stuff if that happens. Such as if in the future you find you start runnign with 5 operators, with 4 aminlien trains, each with 4 powered units, plus a yard operator - 17 powered locos - you'll probably need more than 10 amps to run all that. For now though, you should eb fine with 10 amps, if you dividie it logically. When the layout starts getting larger and larger, it's not practical to have every section powered with enough power to run the maximum possible number of trains - not that the total number of trains the layout can handle would fit in one area. The only option is to have more but smaller sections so the maximum occupency is never more than the pwoer supply can handle. Say you run 4 traisn, each of which pulls 3 amps - if each train is always in an opposite corner of the layout, there won't be any issues with 5 amps per power district because no two fo them will ever been in the same area. If they can run close to one another though, you eithe rneed to make each distric capable of handling 6 or more amps, or make the districts small enough so that even if they are close, no two trains ever occupy the same power district.
I know it sounds kind of complicated and potentially expensive, but it's not much different than DC power. In a multi-cab DC system, each cab has to be able to provide as much power as the train it runs requires. One cab might not be able to handle 2 trains - and great pains are taken to flip the block toggles to make sure that doesn't happen. Since there are no artificial control boundaries with DCC, it is possible to get every train running on the layout in a relatively small area, so power must be supplied appropriately.
mobilman44 Randy, I could see running two ABBA consists on the double main at the same time. If that is too much for one 5amp district (8 locos x 1.? amp per), what happens? Will they slow down, trip a breaker, or explode into a fiery ball? If so, perhaps I should split the main and put one with the sidings, and the other main with the staging area or whatever.... Mobilman44
If they draw too much current they will trip the breaker. I broke my layout up into blocks based upon usage. The mainline has two blocks across two boosters. I did this for future proofing. If I ever wanted to run enough locomotives on the mainline that would exceed 5A in a block or across blocks I am covered. You could implement the same thing and just spread them across two sections of a PM42 off the same booster. The goal here, for me, was shorter bus runs and if I ever did need more than 5A I wouldn't need to rewire the mainline, just move the bus feeder or protection device input to another booster.
I also have separate blocks for my engine servicing area, main yard, staging area and industrial siding area (the industrial area is actually a reversing section). While it is generally true you don't count all locomotives they do count if they are part of a consist and have been selected by the throttle. This becomes particularly important with the older QSI sound units, long consists and their inrush current. One other thing I suggest is setting the booster trip timer to .5sec (OpSw18) and setting the protection devices to something less than this. I've had a couple of instances where I have had consists of Atlas Gold and BLI Paragon QSI units in a block and I couldn't start it without the breaker tripping. Generally I was upwards of 10 in the same block, along with other locomotives. Adjusting the booter timer and extending the timout on the protection device resolved this.
davidmbedard He is running Stewart units with Kato drives....they draw next to nothing....0.2 amps each at most. 5 amps in plenty, no matter what everyone says. You can always add a booster if you need it, but it is harder to justify the extra money if you dont. David B
He is running Stewart units with Kato drives....they draw next to nothing....0.2 amps each at most. 5 amps in plenty, no matter what everyone says. You can always add a booster if you need it, but it is harder to justify the extra money if you dont.
David B
I am not suggesting he buys an additional booster day one. I am only suggesting he plan for it so that if he ever does buy another one he doesn't have a major rewiring job to do. I agree with you. Right now I don't see him needing it.
jbinkley60 mobilman44 Randy, I could see running two ABBA consists on the double main at the same time. If that is too much for one 5amp district (8 locos x 1.? amp per), what happens? Will they slow down, trip a breaker, or explode into a fiery ball? If so, perhaps I should split the main and put one with the sidings, and the other main with the staging area or whatever.... Mobilman44 If they draw too much current they will trip the breaker. I broke my layout up into blocks based upon usage. The mainline has two blocks across two boosters. I did this for future proofing. If I ever wanted to run enough locomotives on the mainline that would exceed 5A in a block or across blocks I am covered. You could implement the same thing and just spread them across two sections of a PM42 off the same booster. The goal here, for me, was shorter bus runs and if I ever did need more than 5A I wouldn't need to rewire the mainline, just move the bus feeder or protection device input to another booster. I also have separate blocks for my engine servicing area, main yard, staging area and industrial siding area (the industrial area is actually a reversing section). While it is generally true you don't count all locomotives they do count if they are part of a consist and have been selected by the throttle. This becomes particularly important with the older QSI sound units, long consists and their inrush current. One other thing I suggest is setting the booster trip timer to .5sec (OpSw18) and setting the protection devices to something less than this. I've had a couple of instances where I have had consists of Atlas Gold and BLI Paragon QSI units in a block and I couldn't start it without the breaker tripping. Generally I was upwards of 10 in the same block, along with other locomotives. Adjusting the booter timer and extending the timout on the protection device resolved this.
A picture may be more helpful. Here's my block approach. It is somewhat extreme but very functional. It may give you some ideas. I do have one siding that doubles as a block and programming track. It is the area where I can test anything and not worry about the rest of the layout.
Block 2 is not on the diagram. It is the lower level staging area.
Digitrax is almost like a vehicle Chassis, add and subtract just what you want at any time onto that loconet. Easy peasy.