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Running loco's back to back in consist

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  • Member since
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  • From: Conestoga,Pa.
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Running loco's back to back in consist
Posted by cumminspwr on Monday, December 15, 2008 8:23 PM

Need some assistance. I want to run my loco's back to back in a consist instead of running them all forward. I did do it one time but can't seem to remember how I was told anymore. My system is a Digitrax Zephyr system trying to run Atlas loco's with the sound decoders in them. I posted the question a couple of years ago and couldn't find the old post.

Thanks in advance,John

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Posted by mfm37 on Monday, December 15, 2008 8:37 PM

 John,

You need to follow the steps in the Zephyr manual beginning on page 26 section 18.1.

The first step seems to be the one that is most misunderstood. That one is to place both engines on te track facing the way you want them to be in the consist. Now select the first one (your choice) and run it a few inches. Now select the second engine and run it in the same physical direction as the first. E.G. If the first engine moved from the left to the right, use the direction switch to make the second run from the left to the right. This is what is meant by same "physical direction". Once you have them both going the same way, move on to step two and consist them

 

Martin Myers 

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Posted by hobo9941 on Monday, December 15, 2008 10:58 PM

 

The easiest way is to reprogram CV29. There are charts out there, maybe in the Zephyr manual, that give you the value for CV29, to make reverse, the normal direction of travel. If your decoders read back, read the value of CV29, and add or subtract 1 from the readout, and reprogram that number into CV29. Write down the value of CV29, so you can put it back the way it was, if it doesn't work the way you want it to. That should make the loco run backwards when the throttle is in the forward position. I also mute, or reduce the horn and bell volume to 0, leaving the diesel rumble up. Then I put a small sticker under the fuel tank with a T on it, for trailer unit.
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  • From: WSOR Northern Div.
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Posted by WSOR 3801 on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 5:28 AM

 I wouldn't mess with CV29.  It is not necessary.  There are two ways to do it.  mfm37 gave the Universal Consisting way.  That way takes up 2 slots in the Zepher, and you only get 10 slots to work with.  It may not be a problem. 

The other way is to make an Advanced Consist, using CV 19.  Most decoders will handle this.  This will be a 2-digit address.  Figure out which one you want as the leader.  Decide which 2-digit address you want to use.  Program this into CV 19.

Now, on the engine going the other way, add 128 to the address.  Say you used 70 for the consist address.  The rear unit would get 198 (70 + 128) programmed into CV 19.  Other DCC systems may do this different, but this is the way to make an advanced consist on a Digitrax system.  The consist then only takes 1 slot in the system, so you could run 9 other engines or advanced consists.  

Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com

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  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:41 AM

I wouldn't play with any of the CVs, unless you always plan to run these engines consisted together, or, as was pointed out, if you're short on "slots" in the active stack on your DCC system, whichever one that might be.

Personally, I make up and break down consists as needed, and I always break them down before "putting my toys away" in the roundhouse.  I like the activity involved in running the engines together and coupling them as independent locomotives before actually creating the consist. 

On my Lenz system, I specify the direction each engine goes in the consist as I add it, by the way.  I think that's referred to as "Advanced Consisting" in the manual.  There's also an option called "Double-heading" which I never use, but I think that's limited and might not allow me to select direction.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:04 PM

TA462
I agree, don't change any CV's.  I really don't know why people always want to do that, your just looking for problems down the road. 

 

There are CV's specific to consist for this particular operation!  For example bit 7 on CV19 on the Soundtraxx LC series is specifically reserved for train direction when running in a consist!

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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  • From: Conestoga,Pa.
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Posted by cumminspwr on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:38 PM

Got them running back to back now. I was just messing around with them and it worked out somehow. I'll have to go back and experiment more on what I did.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:05 PM

DigitalGriffin

TA462
I agree, don't change any CV's.  I really don't know why people always want to do that, your just looking for problems down the road. 

 

There are CV's specific to consist for this particular operation!  For example bit 7 on CV19 on the Soundtraxx LC series is specifically reserved for train direction when running in a consist!

 

 That's assuming you're doing Advanced Consisting that actually programs CV19. Which you CAN do with Digitrax, it just doesn't do it by default (my one and only appearance in print was my letter a couple years ago mentioning that they left out Advanced Consisting in the features checklist on the Zephyr in a DCC comparison article). By default, Digitrax does what they call Universal Consisting, where the consist information is held by the command station and the loco decoders themselves are unchanged - these consists are not portable, take the loco off the track and to another layout and they will run individually under their own addresses. CV19 consists are portable, you can go to another layout, as long as the system supports advanced consisting, and address them with the consist address and both will move. Universal consisting is a bit more flexible since you can use any valid address as the consist address - the lead unit, the trailing unit, a middle unit, a dummy 4-digit address, or a dummy 2-digit address.

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:09 PM

cumminspwr

Got them running back to back now. I was just messing around with them and it worked out somehow. I'll have to go back and experiment more on what I did.

You probably advanced the throttle after changing the direction - if you simply pick a stopped loco and throw the reversing switch because you want that one to run 'backwards' in the consist, it won't - because just turning the direction lever does not send a DCC packet to the decoder. Hence the "move it a little" before adding it to the consist - so it is known to be moving in the proper direction. All you really need to do is perform some operation that will send a DCC packet containing the direction info to the decoder - the loco doesn;t have to physically move. That's just the easiest way to verify it.

                               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:17 AM

TA462

DigitalGriffin

TA462
I agree, don't change any CV's.  I really don't know why people always want to do that, your just looking for problems down the road. 

 

There are CV's specific to consist for this particular operation!  For example bit 7 on CV19 on the Soundtraxx LC series is specifically reserved for train direction when running in a consist!

 

By the time you put the loco on the programming track, read, change and then write the change you want to make to CV 19 and then put the loco back on the layout you might as well just do what I said.  Its easier, simpler and faster to do.  I can see changing CV 19 if you have 2 loco's that will always be MUed together, I have a AB set that only run together but why go through all the hassel of changing it just because you can?  When you split up the consist you then have to go back and change CV 19 again back to its original setting.  Kind of a waste of time when there is a simpler method that does the samething don't you think? 

If you want to use CV19, there is no reason to go through all of that, just program CV19 on the main using OPS mode programming, takes all of about 5 seconds.  There is no reason to read CV19 before programming it.  Both forms of consisting have their advantages, but neither one is difficult nor time consuming

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:32 AM

TA462
consist you then have to go back and change CV 19 again back to its original setting. 

 

You can program a seperate consist address.  This is a standard CV on 99.9% of DCC decoders.

You type in that consist address on your controller (0-99).  And boom, it addresses all trains with that consist address.

Once you break the consist and address the locos individually, CV 19 is ignored.  You don't have to reprogram it!

You're thinking of CV29 for normal operation.  Don't touch this! 

All this can be done on the main.

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:13 PM

DigitalGriffin

TA462
consist you then have to go back and change CV 19 again back to its original setting. 

 

You can program a seperate consist address.  This is a standard CV on 99.9% of DCC decoders.

You type in that consist address on your controller (0-99).  And boom, it addresses all trains with that consist address.

Once you break the consist and address the locos individually, CV 19 is ignored.  You don't have to reprogram it!

You're thinking of CV29 for normal operation.  Don't touch this! 

All this can be done on the main.

If you are using the throttle consisting functions to make and break advanced consists, then you do not have to reporgram CV 19(because the command station is doing this for you), but if you are not using the throttle consisting functions, then you do.  You have to program the consist address into CV 19 to add a loco to a consist, and program 0 into CV 19 to remove it from a consist.  This does, however, only take a few seconds with Ops mode programming.

 

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Posted by elansp on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:12 PM

mfm37

 John,

You need to follow the steps in the Zephyr manual beginning on page 26 section 18.1.

The first step seems to be the one that is most misunderstood. That one is to place both engines on te track facing the way you want them to be in the consist. Now select the first one (your choice) and run it a few inches. Now select the second engine and run it in the same physical direction as the first. E.G. If the first engine moved from the left to the right, use the direction switch to make the second run from the left to the right. This is what is meant by same "physical direction". Once you have them both going the same way, move on to step two and consist them

 

Martin Myers 

 

This way worked perfectly for me.  Key was, as you mentioned, keep locos running ever so slightly.  This is the first time I've ever consisted engines facing the opposite direction and it worked like a charm.  Thanks.

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Posted by mfm37 on Thursday, December 18, 2008 4:20 AM

 Great!!! Ya gotta walk before you run. While the balance of the responses gave good information, I had a feeling you just wanted to get two engines running properly together.

Advanced consisting and modifications to CV's should be approached one step at a time.

Martin Myers 

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