I AM BUILDING A MIKADO KIT BY BOWSER. GREAT KIT AND PULLS LIKE A BULL DOG. NOW I WANT TO HAVE DCC AND SOUND. GOING NUT TRYING TO DESIDE WHAT SYSTEMS TO USE. I WANT TO GO WITH A DIGITRAX MOBEL DECORDER DH165LO AND A SFXOO4 SOUND BUG. I HAVE ALL THE ROOM I NEED IN THE TENDER, SO SPACE NO PROBLEM. MY QUESTION IS HAS ANYONE INSTALLED A DIGITRAX SYSTEM IN A PITMAN OPEN FRAM MOTOR LOCO. WOULD LIKE TO HEAR. THANK BAYOUMAN
Make sure the Pittman will even run on DCC. I just did a similar thing and the Pittman ran good until I tried it on DCC and then it just burned. I also put the engine decoder in the engine and the sound in the tender. It reduced the wires between. The new motor idea is really a good one. I did use the Pittman in my shay, so it can work, but that instalation did not include sound as there was no room for the speaker. Good luck, as you know, its a lot of work, but worth it if you love the engine.
THANKS DAVID B. EDDIE "BAYOUMAN" N
THANKS ARTHILL. EDDIE "BAYOUMAN" N
I guess I have a problem throwing out a Pittman motor that is in good condition. Assuming you have gotten the locomotive to run smoothly, the DCC conversion requires electrical isolation of the motor from the locomotive frame. Both brushes will be wired to the decoder motor outputs and the motor frame mounting screw must be replaced with a plastic screw. I use electrical tape between the motor and the mount.
It would help if you had an idea of how much current your Bowser Mikado is drawing. Should be around 0.5 amps or less under normal conditions. If the current is much higher, the magnets are weak or there is too much friction in the drive. Magnets are easily replaced (for about $5) with rare earth magnet stacks - assumes motor bearings and brushes are in good shape. Slip current is the key - how much current does the motor draw when the drivers start spinning? If less than 1 amp (should be), you are good to go with the Digitrax decoder.
just my thoughts, other posters have different opinions
Fred W
THANKS AGAIN. THE MOTOR IS TOTALY INSULATED FROM THE ENGINE AND THE MOTOR BRUSH LEADS OR INSULATED, DCC READY. PLASTIC MOTOR SUPORTS AND DOUBLE STICK TAPE. I HAVE RUN THE ENGINE ON A DCC LAYOUT AT ADDRESS 00 AND HAD NO PROBLEMS, SUPPER SMOOTH RUNNING AND PULLS LIKE A BULL DOG. IT DID TAKE SEVERAL REDOES ON THE DRIVE RODS. ( HINT: TAKE YOUR TIME AND BE PATINCE DO IT RIGHT AS MANY TIMES AS IT TAKES TO GET IT RIGHT. I WENT THROUGH THREE DRIFF PINS SO BE CAREFUL ). I USED A PIECE OF AIRCRAFT PLYWOOD AS A WORK SURFACE AFTER BREAKING THE FIRST DRIFF PIN. THANK YOU AGAIN. TODAY I WILL MAKE AMP TEST.GOT TO FIND OUT HOW, I THINK MULTMETER COULD THE JOB.
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A BETTER NEW YEAR,BAYOUMAN
I would absolutely go beyond that and measure the STALL current, not just the normal load. You have to assume that your steamer WILL develop a bind and STALL. That spike in amps WILL destroy your decoder if not chosen correctly. David B
I have to disagree on this one. David B makes a good point - at some time your locomotive may develop a bind and stall. Note that to get to stall current, the motor must be powered and still trying to turn, but the drive wheels locked up and unable to turn. If the motor stall current is greater than the decoder rating, the decoder will cook itself and let the magic smoke out. A few decoders have an automatic shutdown capability to protect themselves when they are overloaded - Tsunami is an example.
What David fails to say is that if the decoder is rated high enough, and can keep the stall current flowing, your motor will smoke in a matter of seconds or minutes unless the stall current situation is removed. None of the motors used in our model locomotives are capable of handling stall current for any length of time. Coreless motors smoke quickest, followed next by can motors. Open frame motors have the longest survival time (in general) at stall current because of their ability to dissipate excess heat easier.
I prefer to rate decoders at slip current - which if the model is weighted properly and has no traction tires, the motor can endure almost indefinitely. My reasons for preferring a slip current rating for the decoder are a) true stalls are not that frequent and easy to achieve, and b) these days, in most cases it is cheaper and easier to replace the decoder than the motor.
In David B's case where he is installing decoders and sound systems for $$, rating the decoder to motor stall current ensures his installation and work will survive any likely incident. Therefore, his method makes good sense for him. And since the stall current of most open frame motors is above the typical 1 amp rating for HO decoders, insisting on remotoring with a can motor makes sense, too.
OTOH, if you are going to continue using the open frame motor the model came with and a home-performed decoder install, then in the event of a stall you will likely want to have the decoder fry before the motor. Again, a typical 1 amp decoder will handle an open frame motor where the mechanism is decently free-running. If you are drawing 0.8 or 0.9 amps in ordinary running, there is a problem that needs to be fixed. This is why I recommend using an ammeter in almost every situation - to get a handle on whether you have mechanism and/or motor problems. This is true regardless of type of motor installed.
Another reality is that many of today's HO decoders have a surge rating of 2 amps, 1 amp continuous. These decoders render the disagreement moot - provided you remove the stall situation promptly.
my thoughts, your choices
BAYOUMANMY QUESTION IS HAS ANYONE INSTALLED A DIGITRAX SYSTEM IN A PITMAN OPEN FRAM MOTOR LOCO.
RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
If I'm not mistaken, that frame is hot to boot. Any hint of a stray wire and poof, you get free magic smoke!
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I think Bowser makes a kit to isolate the DC-71 brushes. Look on their website.
Now that I'm thnking, maybe it was a trade in program, where they send you an isolated motor in exchange.
I've also seen a page where there is a description of how to do it with a peice of sheet styrene and the coupler center pin bushings that come in bowser freight car kits.
HI THANKS, I DID A AMP CHECK TODAY. STALLED OUT AT 2.5 AMPS. HELD IT THERE FOR 12 SECONDS AT 14 VOLTS. I THINK I'M SAFE. BAYOUMAN
Only a decoder made to go into O or G scale can handle a 2.5 Amp current draw, and are very big because of the large heat sink they require to absorb that much currrent. None of them will fit into an HO scale model.
You need to get a retrofit can motor from Bowser if you intend to install DCC into this model.
CORRECTION, 1.5 AMPS
With the help of a fellow board member I got my Bowser 2-8-2 running. I had the same concerns you did with the DC-71 motor. I contacted Bowser and was told they re-did the motors to be DCC friendly and they would pull well under an amp stall current and have allot more horse power than the can motor. So as long as the decoder you are putting in is good for at least an amp you are good to go.
With that said I went ahead and replaced the DC-71 with a Helix-Humper. I then installed a Tsunami and a humongus 3 in x 1 1/2 in speaker. It rattles the windows.
Terry in FLorida
Bayouman,
Why are you looking at the DH165L0 decoder? That is for Walthers/Lifelike engines. It has a special plug just for those engines. Sound is 'extra' - You need to install a 'Soundbug' onto it. There are a lot of other sound decoders out there that have better prices/form factors.
BTW, please do not type in ALL CAPS - your posts will be much easier to read.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin