What are the differences between the Prodigy Express/Advance/Advance² (squared) setups from MRC?
I have an opportunity to buy a Prodigy Advance system for just a few dollars more than a Prodigy Advance system. Is there any reason to opt for the Prodigy Express over the Prodigy Advance?
The Prodigy Advance and Prodigy Advance² seem to be quite similar - this MR product review (July 2007) made a few distinctions. Namely the Advance² seemed to have built-in wireless throtte support and support for functions 0-28. It also mentioned that Advance throttles back to MRC for a 28 function upgrade (any idea what this costs?).
I'm under the impression that Advance users upgrading to wireless would need the Prodigy Wireless Conversion Set that comes with a transmitter, but Advance² owners would be able to upgrade to wireless by just buying additional wireless throttles without the transmitter.
It seems that the Advance supports 20 functions while the Express supports only 16. The Advance's 3.5A seem preferable to the Express at 1.6A.
It seems odd to me that the Walthers price for the Advance is $50 above the Advance² at the moment, so unless a lot of my impressions above are wrong, getting an Advance for just $25 more than an Express wouldn't be a bad deal - especially if it's inexpensively updated to the functionality of the Advance².
Thanks in advance for setting me straight.
Well said, David! The extended 'function' key features are really of no importance. I can turn the headlight on/off, ring the bell, and blow the whistle on any of my engines and do not get beyond F3. The computer interface is a lot more important(even if you claim you just want to run trains). After I set up Decoder Pro at the club, I have had constant phone calls about setting it up at home by club members.
I suppose if you delight in pressing a button to hear 'all aboard', then it may be of some value to you.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
davidmbedard Before you jump into the MRC DCC world,
Before you jump into the MRC DCC world,
I'm not jumping, I'm wading.
davidmbedard can I ask what you are going to be running on your layout?
can I ask what you are going to be running on your layout?
Locomotives, probably coupled to some freight and passenger cars - as well as a variety of DCC accessories.
davidmbedard Will you be using sound decoders?
Will you be using sound decoders?
Probably. I intend to upgrade some of my DCC locomotives with sound.
davidmbedard Are you going to join a local club?
Are you going to join a local club?
Probably not.
davidmbedard What do they use?
What do they use?
Two clubs in town use Digitrax, along with my friend down the street. They all have spare throttles, and if I decided it'd like to participate regularly I'd probably just buy a Digitrax cab.
davidmbedard Are you computer savvy?
Are you computer savvy?
Extremely.
davidmbedard Are you good at or enjoy reading manuals or would you like the easy way around?
Are you good at or enjoy reading manuals or would you like the easy way around?
I tend to skim the manual once, then file it for reference. Most of the DCC systems have electronic manuals so organizing, storing and searching them for reference isn't an issue.
davidmbedard Have you looked at or considered NCE or Digitrax products? If so, why have you passed them by?
Have you looked at or considered NCE or Digitrax products? If so, why have you passed them by?
Yes. I considered them. This isn't a thread about NCE or Digitrax though. I had a question about MRC Prodigy systems. I've passed them by because I was leaning MRC anyway and found a great deal on price that essentially eliminates the NCE or Digitrax from consideration for my purposes. If I find that my layout grows to the extent that I *need* the features of an NCE or Digitrax then I'll just get one of those systems at that time.
davidmbedard In terms of MRC. product Features... Express<Advance<Advance2=Advance2 Wireless. If you start with the wireless system, all you need to do is buy extra radio throttles. If you start with the Express, Advance or Advance2, you have to buy the wireless conversion....then all you have to do is add extra radio throttles. In terms of features, the Express is at the bottom of the pile and is missing a few that are important down the road. The Advance and Advance 2(wireless) have very good feature sets but lack horribly in one regaurd (as with the Express), a lack of a computer connection.
In terms of MRC. product Features... Express<Advance<Advance2=Advance2 Wireless.
If you start with the wireless system, all you need to do is buy extra radio throttles. If you start with the Express, Advance or Advance2, you have to buy the wireless conversion....then all you have to do is add extra radio throttles.
In terms of features, the Express is at the bottom of the pile and is missing a few that are important down the road. The Advance and Advance 2(wireless) have very good feature sets but lack horribly in one regaurd (as with the Express), a lack of a computer connection.
Looks like I'll be in good shape if I go with the Advance and expand with a wireless conversion kit down the road.
As for the computer connection, I've seen that it's an offering. Nice that it's wireless. Not crazy about proprietary but I'm also not crazy about JMRI. It'd probably be interesting to reverse-engineer the MRC computer control system and develop a .NET alternative in C# if I get bored. If I go that route I'd probably write an app so I can control my layout from my Windows Mobile phone. That'd kind of interface would put any of the other cabs to shame.
davidmbedard Buying a DCC is a big decision. Everything after it has to fall into place. Just don't be fooled by MRC advertisments and they are misleading.
Buying a DCC is a big decision. Everything after it has to fall into place. Just don't be fooled by MRC advertisments and they are misleading.
I haven't really paid much attention to advertisements. Nothing I've found amounts to a very good comparison of the systems. The reviews range from MR articles that generally provide nothing more than could be read from the box or manufacturer website on up to extremely biased arguments in a variety of online forums.
I read a thread last night that really reached it's conclusion after 2 posts but ended up going on for 28 more arguing about whether or not a product design that doesn't prevent the user from shorting a battery needs to be improved.
Anyway, I guess my main remaining question concerns the ability to upgrade Advance to Advance² via MRC. Anybody know what that costs? Do they upgrade your existing hardware or is it more of a cab trade-in scheme?
The last time I was at the LHS on Indianola Ave. in Columbus ( about 9 months ago ) they had either an Advance or AdvanceSquared set up on their test track. Might be able to get some answers there or at least take a "test drive".
There's already a .Net library for Digitrax Loconet so you can develop your own apps. I'm not particualrly crazy about Java in general (actually, I think it totally stinks as a programming language), but every time I contemplate making my own thing, it ends up with a great big WHY, JMRI does do everything I need. My biggest dislike is using XML to store data - it's not just JMRI that does that, it's like EVERYTHING stores data in XML files. HORRIBLE idea, at least to someone used to relational databases like I am. Sure I guess it's the same as accessing any other database if you have libraries for it, but even that is crazy. I guess I am just too used to using a far more advanced language that's a lot easier to use then creating datasets and stuff. At any rate, my long-runnign idea, yet to be implemented, is to combine a nice loco/rolling stock database I have (it also generates car cards and all the goodies for operation) with JMRI - I'll just store the JMRI roster info in the database and then have a button that shells out to JMRI and dumps the file when I want to program a aprticular loco.
All in all, despite my dislike of Java, JMRI does th ejob and does it well. The panels and so forth are great as well as the decoder programming. There's tons of extra stuff for Digitrax, but that's only because Digitrax is the only system capable of all those extras - one bus, lots of bandwidth and functionality. From a techie point of view, it's Loconet that makes Digitrax far better than the other systems.
And in the fact that your local club and your friends use Digitrax, the fact that you can get a PA2 cheap is more or less penny wise, pound foolish. You can get the top of the line Digitrax Super Chief for less than the list price of the PA2, which still puts it about $100 more than the lowest price I've seen for the PA2, but you also get more.
--Randy
Edit: my posting got interrupted by dinner, and additional replies were made in thee meantime. I guess just forget this.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
davidmbedard The Advance or Advance2 will both serve you well. In terms of the fee for upgrading the Advance to the Advance 2, I have no idea, nor do I know of any advantage beyond the extra functions.
The Advance or Advance2 will both serve you well. In terms of the fee for upgrading the Advance to the Advance 2, I have no idea, nor do I know of any advantage beyond the extra functions.
When I called MRC on Friday they said it was $25 for me to mail it in for a "software upgrade" that gives you the extra functions.
When it comes to software upgrades, I'd prefer the ability to DIY. I guess they'd need to bring a PC/Throttle interface to market for that though - not a bad idea.
Turns out I found the Prodigy Advance² for a mere $25 over retail of the Digitrax Zephyr. It also cost about $25 more than the Prodigy Advance from the same retailer - so i figured why hassle with mailing it in for the upgrade when I could eliminate the need.
Between the basic models from NCE, Digitrax, and MRC it was a tough choice for me - but then when I started actually shopping around on price (not just comparing MSRP) the MRC beat the others handily.
jjr The last time I was at the LHS on Indianola Ave. in Columbus ( about 9 months ago ) they had either an Advance or AdvanceSquared set up on their test track. Might be able to get some answers there or at least take a "test drive".
I know exactly which LHS you're talking about (I only live a few blocks away and often walk there). Turns out it's a Prodigy Express. They let me check it out. The guy who was demoing it has an NCE system. He said the Prodigy Express display was a lot more readable and had better contrast.
Anyway, the throttle seemed pretty straightforward but nobody there seemed to know much about DCC systems/features. Pricing was catalog.
I'm really fond of my LHSs but I don't see a bright future for them if the store is essentially an outlet for the major hobby catalog.
Due to the time zone difference I ended up calling a few hobby shops on the west coast to see if they knew anything about DCC systems. No luck there either.
It's amazing how long DCC has been around but there isn't much marketing for it. Just a bunch of dust-covered MRC/Digitrax boxes in the back corner of my LHS. I'd think it'd be pretty high margin so they're missing some opportunities by not having a small demo set up to educate the customers and staff on the various systems.
NSColsMP6...The guy who was demoing it has an NCE system. He said the Prodigy Express display was a lot more readable and had better contrast...
CSX RobertJust so you know - the Prodigy throttles have more contrast because they do not have a backlight.
The vast majority of the time I'll be running trains with ample lighting, so overall the more readable display will benefit me more than the backlight I'll never use.
Amazingly, my old DC throttles were not backlit - yet I could still run trains. ;)
NSColsMP6 CSX RobertJust so you know - the Prodigy throttles have more contrast because they do not have a backlight. The vast majority of the time I'll be running trains with ample lighting, so overall the more readable display will benefit me more than the backlight I'll never use. Amazingly, my old DC throttles were not backlit - yet I could still run trains. ;)
Then again, I haven't seen too many DC throttles with LCD displays that convey meaningful and useful information.
You may have bought your system already, but I thought I'd chime in with some info I found when researching MRC that others didn't mention. The express 'system can do just as much as the others systems. If you plug a Advance2 controller into an express control unit, you will have all the same features as the Advance2 system. However the express only has one cab jack and 1.6A to work with, you can upgrade this with cab jack extentions and booster transformers, but once you pay for all that, you could have just bought an Advance2 system for roughly the same price. So really it's the cab controler, not the system that determines what features you get. They are interchangeable, so an express controler will also work on a Advance2 system and vice versa.
Other than more function keys, the Advance2 cabs also offer extras like a fast clock and programmable turnout routes etc
I personally bought the Advance2 because it has more cab jacks, and more power right out of the box. I would only buy the Express if your only planning on running one cab, with one maybe 1 or 2 trains running at a time.
The lack of a compter interface doesn't bother me, I use the JMRI program to 'program' my decoders, then I simply enter the CV values manually into the decoder using the list of CVs provided by the JMRI program. I don't know about other systems, but programing CVs with the Advance is very simple, you press program, chose main or prog track, then cycle though to the CV prompt, type in the CV address, hit enter, type in the value, hit enter and it then prompts you for the next cv address, I can program my decoders in less than 30secs without refering to a manual. Maybe slighty slower than if the computrer did it for me, but an extra 30secs doesn't phase me. Also I hear a computer interface is in the works for the MRC systems, it already has an expansion 'port' for such a purpose.
I also have no desire to run my trains using a computer either, my layout is a switching layout with hand thrown turnouts so a computer couldn't do much for me anyhow.
Basically the simple operation, nice big display and a throttle knob is what sold me on the MRC system. In my opinion the MRC has the best cab controler on the market. I got a new Advance2 system for $199 so the price wasn't bad either!
Just today MRC has released an advance copy of their new computer interface software. See http://modelrectifier.com/ for more info. Their interface also is much lower in price than originally anticipated. This looks like a good compromise for MRC users.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!