another ? from someone of little ex in dcc .still looking at starter systems and like the two locco knobs on dt400 so ? is how long is the tether or cord on the 400 ,cant find that info any where. still thinking of a zepher plus a 400 but for a few bucks more could get chief /dt400 included...but cant find the lenth of the cord ?..Jerry
Jerry,
I just measured the cable on my DT400, it's seven feet long. Remember, though, that you're not limited to that length. You can put UP5's wherever you need them.
Steve
Cord on wired throttle is about 7 feet long. Cord on a DT400R adio is less than 1 foot long. Besides adding UP5 panels, an extension able can be used. You will need at least a 4 conductor cord and coupler. Plan ti always have a good battery installed if using 4 wires.
6 conductors would be ideal. Radio shack and wall mart sell them. They are telco style wired pin 1 to pin 6) but that's OK if it's being used to extend a throttle cable.
Martin Myers
thanks ,Very helpfull..Jerry
DT400 + Zephyr = 5 amp super chief set in cost.
Almost. At list prices, the Zephyr + DT400 would be about $379 vs $449 list for the Super Chief. But you also have to add the power suppyl for the Chief, $50 list. So the actual difference is about $120 to add 2.5 more amps, 120 loco/throttle capacity, and routes.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The other difference is that the Zephyr has it's own throttle (with a neat "brake" feature), plus the two jump ports. So if you go for the Z plus DT400 (plus two DC throttlepacks), you can control up to 5 trains at the same time. With the Chief set, you can only control two (without buying more DCC throttles).
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Most people can usually manage one or two trains without problems. If there is a operating session extra throttles usually are brought in by others or bought rather cheaply on Ebay.
DT400's F7 airbrake procedure works well once it is set up, just need several cv's to be adjusted to make it work.
Finally but not last, the 5 Amp Chief has the horses to program power thirsty QSI engines in my stable.
Both systems are prefectly fine, it may have to come down to actually picking up either one and trying it out for yourself before buying. Such test drives sometimes hammer out choices.
Thanks for info,but whats this mean "chief has enough power for my power thursty Qsi loccos" im thiking of some qsi sound decoders is this something I need to consider before I PICK a system ? ..please explane ...thanks Jerry
I have not noticed any issues programming engines from a system such as mine with adequate power.
Some other systems may experience a need to have a booster installed to the program track to feed the Factory QSI decoder/sound units during programming, if any. My situation sometimes gets extreme when you have 4 F7's in ABBA formation sitting on the track at once. As far as Im concerned, they are considered one engine.
Some DCC control systems are so basic as to be ineffective and not worth considering.
I have experienced engines that really are terrible at recall. Program them and they "Brick-out" or forget everything a few minutes later.
It all depens on how many you intend to run at the same time. An old Blue Box Atheran loco typically draws more power than a QSI equipped Broadway Limited loco. Check the spec boxes in the Model Railroad reviews and note the max slipping current and max stall current of the various brands of locos they've tested that have QSI decoders in them. Most have stall currents of about half an amp.
There seems to be some thought that if you put a sound decoder in a loco it MUST draw a relatively huge amount of current. The electronics don't draw much power, and it doesn't take a lot of power to make a small speaker loud. Plus these decoders are mainly in new and relatively high quality locos which have good motors.
The issue of programming a sound decoder is independent of the ability to actually run them. Some sound decoders have a rather large capacitor in them, to keep the sounds going over dead spots (where the motor can coast over via the flywheel - but the sound would stop instantly if not for the capacitor). The problem is, a capacitor appears as essentially a short circuit until it is fully charged. The program track of a DCC system does NOT have voltage to the rails constantly liek the runnign track - it only gets power when the pulses are sent to send programming information to the decoder. On many sound decoders, the capacitor causes those pulses to be totally missed by the decoder electronics, thus they can't be programmed on the programming track. The Tony's PowerPx or Soundtraxx PTB-100 boost the power to the programming track to overcome this. IMO, leavign oen of these on all the time is not a good idea. Part of the benefit of the low power ont he program track is that it is generally too low to damage a miswired decoder - when you install a new decoder, you should test it first ont he program track - if you can;t program it, it's probably not wired correctly, and placing in on the runnign track will probably damage it. If it works on the program track, there's a pretty good chance that at least the parts that could damange the decoder are wired correctly, so you cna then move it to the running track and test it further. The program track booster somewhat does away with that safeguard.
A solution to program the sound decoders is to use Ops Mode programming on the main - program comamnds get sent out to the runnign track rather than the program track, but directed at a specific address, so only the addressed loco will get programmed. I have never had a problem programmign QSI and ESU sound decoders this way. I have not tried a Tsunami but I don;t see how this could not also work, unless Soundtraxx managed to disable ops mode programming. Another trick that allowed me to program a QSI decoder on the program track was to first turn off the lights and put it in shutdown mode while it was on the main, then move it to the program track.
Don't fear the sound. The hardest part about a sound decoder is the plethora of CVs to set to adjust everything. On most of them, you can configure ever little nuance of the sound. The instruction manuals are usually quite thick. This is where you want a DCC system with a computer interface so you can use JMRI DecoderPro to configure these things and also save the configuration if you ever need to reset it.
I agree, JMRI with a DB150 to pound CV's into a engine is a very easy way to do things these days.
But once in a while I will have the chief over on the layout "Ask" for a cv readback but not too often.
Profiles are kept one to each engine sorted by road number. Once you have the little things all nicely programmed and written to the engine, your profile stays on the computer. Should you need a reset, simply place the engine onto the JMRI track, hit "Write all sheets" off the profile and go get some coffee.
My problem is keeping the specific engines apart in the profile. The JMRI likes to lump everything to just one profile. Must be my error in trying to assign a profile title to seperate all the engines by cab number.
One can control up to 120 trains on a Chief sytem with one DT400 throttle, but not all at the same time (which was my point).
Control, to me, means having instant access to a train's speed and direction. Setting them up and then letting them run without anyone at the helm is a train that is not under control. I call that a runaway.
Say you are running a half dozen trains, with 4 of them without being controlled directly. For whatever reason, a train derails. First, you have to identify the derailed train. Then you have to remember the DCC address for that train. If you're operating with a Digitrax radio, then you have to find a UP5 to plug into and wait a second for the throttle to synch up with the LocoNet. Then you have to hit "LOCO", punch in the DCC address, then hit "ENTER". At this point, you can slow your train down.
Meanwhile, say your train was moving at 60smph (which is 1 foot per second). I see it as: 1 sec. to hear and react to the derailment sound, 1 sec. to look up and see which train it is, 2 seconds to find and plug in the DT400 into a throttle jack, 1 sec. for the DT400 to synch, 1 second to punch in the number and hit "ENTER", 1 more sec. to actually stop the train with the throttle.
That's a 7 second delay from the time of the derailment to a full stop under the good circumstances with a DT400R. That means your train has continued on it's merry way at least 7 feet and dragging derailed equipment all over the place.Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Press Emergency Stop twice and the whole shebang comes to a quick stop. One second.
-Crandell
Of course it depends on ho wmuch space you have - when I had 8 locos going, that was one on the zephyr console, two on my DT400, and the other 5 were throttles in JMRI. Absolutely imposisble to actually 'control' them all - I resorted to the 0-5-0 method just to keep them going for a while before I shut the whole thing down so I wouldn;t have a serious collision. Unde rnormal circumstances I stick to a max of two on a DT400 so a quick twist of the knob will stop either one, or a minor tweak will slow the faster one down. Emergency stop can be a handy thing to have too. Didn;t stop the Atlas Trainamster from shoving 4 cars off the unfinished end of the track - but it did keep the loco itself on the rails.
At the last show we had a Blackstone Narrow Gauge steam engine working the layout and the radio throttle I had at the time either failed to talk to the engine or something went missing. Anyhoo.. I spoke the words of warning "I aint got it no more" as the engine gently shoved two flatcars into the sawmill pond as I spun the wheel uselessly to full stop.
You could not make up the appearance of the wrecked flatcars, it was totally true to life, only that they were models in narrow gauge.
Dt400 has a recall stack. Default is 4 addresses. Works on both knobs.
It can be changed to 8 or 16 deep by setting the DT400 Option switches. Check the manual.